Find the two missing angles in a quadrilateral












2












$begingroup$


This problem originates from a student who came asking for help. After spending some time, we couldn't solve this problem using (Euclidean) geometry alone. We had to resort to trigonometry to solve this. I have since spent many hours on it and can't seem to get anywhere. Here is the problem.



Given:



Quadrilateral $ABCD$



Diagonals $overline{AC}$ and $overline{BD}$



$mangle ABD=19^{circ}$



$mangle DBC=57^{circ}$



$mangle ACD=30^{circ}$



$overline{AB}cong overline{CB}$



Find:



$mangle ADB$.



Here is a helpful digram.



enter image description here



It is almost immediate that $mangle BAC cong mangle BCA$ and you can easily fill in the following angles, shown in green.



enter image description here



But $x$ and (now added) $y$ are still illusive. I have tried everything from extending lines to drawing parallel lines to looking at the circumcircles and nothing seems to work. The green angles are the ones which we can easily deduce and the missing/blank angles, I don't know.



enter image description here




How can we deduce the value of the missing angle $x$ using only high school geometry?




There is obviously enough "information" here because if nothing else, you can just draw the quadrilateral very carefully and just measure the angle. Physically, the missing angle can only be one value. It is constrained. One should be able to deduce this value with a geometric proof using basic theorems without resorting to advanced theorems or even trigonometry.



The missing values are, just for giggles,




enter image description here




Clarification



High school geometry, at least in the USA, is "distinct" from trigonometry and it doesn't include law of sines or cosines. High school geometry tries to mimic Euclid and his "Elements" where students memorize some of the definitions and axioms and are forced to mindlessly derive theorems in an excruciatingly mind-numbing manner with cumbersome notation. High school geometry also does not include any "advanced" geometric theorems. The most advanced thing an average student might do is something like constructing a regular hexagon. My questions is, again, can this problem be solved using only the material taught in a typical high school geometry class? If yes, then how? If you believe no, then can you give a convincing argument why trigonometry is necessary?



I am hoping that this is solvable with some basic theorems and doesn't require any advanced theorems. If we allow trigonometry, then the problem is easy.










share|cite|improve this question











$endgroup$








  • 1




    $begingroup$
    Hint: BD is a fixed length (relative to BC). So you have BD, $angle BDA$ and $AD$. So the triangle $BAD$ is fixed the angles $angle BDA$ and $angle BAD$ are fixed. Use the law of cosines to figure out exactly what they must be.
    $endgroup$
    – fleablood
    Apr 20 '18 at 21:18










  • $begingroup$
    It doesn't seem to be solvable without the law of sines or something similar. Because both $x$ and $y$ belond to the same triangle no matter how you see it.
    $endgroup$
    – GiaFil7
    Apr 20 '18 at 21:21












  • $begingroup$
    "Because both x and y belond to the same triangle no matter how you see it."... which means if you can find out the lengths of the three sides you can figure out what they are. You have all the angles of $triangle BCD$ so you have $BD$. With law of cosines and $angle BDA$ and sides $AB$ and $BD$ you can figure out $AD$. Then you have all three sides of $triangle BAD$ and one angle. That's enough to figure out the other two angles.
    $endgroup$
    – fleablood
    Apr 20 '18 at 21:38










  • $begingroup$
    Oh... sorry. You were saying it's not solvable without. True. At least I don't see it if there is something "special" about those particular angles. But we do have the law of sins and cos. That will determine. I doubt highly that they are 79 and 30.
    $endgroup$
    – fleablood
    Apr 20 '18 at 21:44










  • $begingroup$
    Oh, wait! $41 = frac 12 82$ so $sin 82 = sin (41 + 41)$ so maybe this does work out nicely without a calculator.
    $endgroup$
    – fleablood
    Apr 20 '18 at 21:50
















2












$begingroup$


This problem originates from a student who came asking for help. After spending some time, we couldn't solve this problem using (Euclidean) geometry alone. We had to resort to trigonometry to solve this. I have since spent many hours on it and can't seem to get anywhere. Here is the problem.



Given:



Quadrilateral $ABCD$



Diagonals $overline{AC}$ and $overline{BD}$



$mangle ABD=19^{circ}$



$mangle DBC=57^{circ}$



$mangle ACD=30^{circ}$



$overline{AB}cong overline{CB}$



Find:



$mangle ADB$.



Here is a helpful digram.



enter image description here



It is almost immediate that $mangle BAC cong mangle BCA$ and you can easily fill in the following angles, shown in green.



enter image description here



But $x$ and (now added) $y$ are still illusive. I have tried everything from extending lines to drawing parallel lines to looking at the circumcircles and nothing seems to work. The green angles are the ones which we can easily deduce and the missing/blank angles, I don't know.



enter image description here




How can we deduce the value of the missing angle $x$ using only high school geometry?




There is obviously enough "information" here because if nothing else, you can just draw the quadrilateral very carefully and just measure the angle. Physically, the missing angle can only be one value. It is constrained. One should be able to deduce this value with a geometric proof using basic theorems without resorting to advanced theorems or even trigonometry.



The missing values are, just for giggles,




enter image description here




Clarification



High school geometry, at least in the USA, is "distinct" from trigonometry and it doesn't include law of sines or cosines. High school geometry tries to mimic Euclid and his "Elements" where students memorize some of the definitions and axioms and are forced to mindlessly derive theorems in an excruciatingly mind-numbing manner with cumbersome notation. High school geometry also does not include any "advanced" geometric theorems. The most advanced thing an average student might do is something like constructing a regular hexagon. My questions is, again, can this problem be solved using only the material taught in a typical high school geometry class? If yes, then how? If you believe no, then can you give a convincing argument why trigonometry is necessary?



I am hoping that this is solvable with some basic theorems and doesn't require any advanced theorems. If we allow trigonometry, then the problem is easy.










share|cite|improve this question











$endgroup$








  • 1




    $begingroup$
    Hint: BD is a fixed length (relative to BC). So you have BD, $angle BDA$ and $AD$. So the triangle $BAD$ is fixed the angles $angle BDA$ and $angle BAD$ are fixed. Use the law of cosines to figure out exactly what they must be.
    $endgroup$
    – fleablood
    Apr 20 '18 at 21:18










  • $begingroup$
    It doesn't seem to be solvable without the law of sines or something similar. Because both $x$ and $y$ belond to the same triangle no matter how you see it.
    $endgroup$
    – GiaFil7
    Apr 20 '18 at 21:21












  • $begingroup$
    "Because both x and y belond to the same triangle no matter how you see it."... which means if you can find out the lengths of the three sides you can figure out what they are. You have all the angles of $triangle BCD$ so you have $BD$. With law of cosines and $angle BDA$ and sides $AB$ and $BD$ you can figure out $AD$. Then you have all three sides of $triangle BAD$ and one angle. That's enough to figure out the other two angles.
    $endgroup$
    – fleablood
    Apr 20 '18 at 21:38










  • $begingroup$
    Oh... sorry. You were saying it's not solvable without. True. At least I don't see it if there is something "special" about those particular angles. But we do have the law of sins and cos. That will determine. I doubt highly that they are 79 and 30.
    $endgroup$
    – fleablood
    Apr 20 '18 at 21:44










  • $begingroup$
    Oh, wait! $41 = frac 12 82$ so $sin 82 = sin (41 + 41)$ so maybe this does work out nicely without a calculator.
    $endgroup$
    – fleablood
    Apr 20 '18 at 21:50














2












2








2


2



$begingroup$


This problem originates from a student who came asking for help. After spending some time, we couldn't solve this problem using (Euclidean) geometry alone. We had to resort to trigonometry to solve this. I have since spent many hours on it and can't seem to get anywhere. Here is the problem.



Given:



Quadrilateral $ABCD$



Diagonals $overline{AC}$ and $overline{BD}$



$mangle ABD=19^{circ}$



$mangle DBC=57^{circ}$



$mangle ACD=30^{circ}$



$overline{AB}cong overline{CB}$



Find:



$mangle ADB$.



Here is a helpful digram.



enter image description here



It is almost immediate that $mangle BAC cong mangle BCA$ and you can easily fill in the following angles, shown in green.



enter image description here



But $x$ and (now added) $y$ are still illusive. I have tried everything from extending lines to drawing parallel lines to looking at the circumcircles and nothing seems to work. The green angles are the ones which we can easily deduce and the missing/blank angles, I don't know.



enter image description here




How can we deduce the value of the missing angle $x$ using only high school geometry?




There is obviously enough "information" here because if nothing else, you can just draw the quadrilateral very carefully and just measure the angle. Physically, the missing angle can only be one value. It is constrained. One should be able to deduce this value with a geometric proof using basic theorems without resorting to advanced theorems or even trigonometry.



The missing values are, just for giggles,




enter image description here




Clarification



High school geometry, at least in the USA, is "distinct" from trigonometry and it doesn't include law of sines or cosines. High school geometry tries to mimic Euclid and his "Elements" where students memorize some of the definitions and axioms and are forced to mindlessly derive theorems in an excruciatingly mind-numbing manner with cumbersome notation. High school geometry also does not include any "advanced" geometric theorems. The most advanced thing an average student might do is something like constructing a regular hexagon. My questions is, again, can this problem be solved using only the material taught in a typical high school geometry class? If yes, then how? If you believe no, then can you give a convincing argument why trigonometry is necessary?



I am hoping that this is solvable with some basic theorems and doesn't require any advanced theorems. If we allow trigonometry, then the problem is easy.










share|cite|improve this question











$endgroup$




This problem originates from a student who came asking for help. After spending some time, we couldn't solve this problem using (Euclidean) geometry alone. We had to resort to trigonometry to solve this. I have since spent many hours on it and can't seem to get anywhere. Here is the problem.



Given:



Quadrilateral $ABCD$



Diagonals $overline{AC}$ and $overline{BD}$



$mangle ABD=19^{circ}$



$mangle DBC=57^{circ}$



$mangle ACD=30^{circ}$



$overline{AB}cong overline{CB}$



Find:



$mangle ADB$.



Here is a helpful digram.



enter image description here



It is almost immediate that $mangle BAC cong mangle BCA$ and you can easily fill in the following angles, shown in green.



enter image description here



But $x$ and (now added) $y$ are still illusive. I have tried everything from extending lines to drawing parallel lines to looking at the circumcircles and nothing seems to work. The green angles are the ones which we can easily deduce and the missing/blank angles, I don't know.



enter image description here




How can we deduce the value of the missing angle $x$ using only high school geometry?




There is obviously enough "information" here because if nothing else, you can just draw the quadrilateral very carefully and just measure the angle. Physically, the missing angle can only be one value. It is constrained. One should be able to deduce this value with a geometric proof using basic theorems without resorting to advanced theorems or even trigonometry.



The missing values are, just for giggles,




enter image description here




Clarification



High school geometry, at least in the USA, is "distinct" from trigonometry and it doesn't include law of sines or cosines. High school geometry tries to mimic Euclid and his "Elements" where students memorize some of the definitions and axioms and are forced to mindlessly derive theorems in an excruciatingly mind-numbing manner with cumbersome notation. High school geometry also does not include any "advanced" geometric theorems. The most advanced thing an average student might do is something like constructing a regular hexagon. My questions is, again, can this problem be solved using only the material taught in a typical high school geometry class? If yes, then how? If you believe no, then can you give a convincing argument why trigonometry is necessary?



I am hoping that this is solvable with some basic theorems and doesn't require any advanced theorems. If we allow trigonometry, then the problem is easy.







geometry euclidean-geometry triangle angle quadrilateral






share|cite|improve this question















share|cite|improve this question













share|cite|improve this question




share|cite|improve this question








edited Apr 20 '18 at 22:17







Fixed Point

















asked Apr 20 '18 at 21:00









Fixed PointFixed Point

5,98931837




5,98931837








  • 1




    $begingroup$
    Hint: BD is a fixed length (relative to BC). So you have BD, $angle BDA$ and $AD$. So the triangle $BAD$ is fixed the angles $angle BDA$ and $angle BAD$ are fixed. Use the law of cosines to figure out exactly what they must be.
    $endgroup$
    – fleablood
    Apr 20 '18 at 21:18










  • $begingroup$
    It doesn't seem to be solvable without the law of sines or something similar. Because both $x$ and $y$ belond to the same triangle no matter how you see it.
    $endgroup$
    – GiaFil7
    Apr 20 '18 at 21:21












  • $begingroup$
    "Because both x and y belond to the same triangle no matter how you see it."... which means if you can find out the lengths of the three sides you can figure out what they are. You have all the angles of $triangle BCD$ so you have $BD$. With law of cosines and $angle BDA$ and sides $AB$ and $BD$ you can figure out $AD$. Then you have all three sides of $triangle BAD$ and one angle. That's enough to figure out the other two angles.
    $endgroup$
    – fleablood
    Apr 20 '18 at 21:38










  • $begingroup$
    Oh... sorry. You were saying it's not solvable without. True. At least I don't see it if there is something "special" about those particular angles. But we do have the law of sins and cos. That will determine. I doubt highly that they are 79 and 30.
    $endgroup$
    – fleablood
    Apr 20 '18 at 21:44










  • $begingroup$
    Oh, wait! $41 = frac 12 82$ so $sin 82 = sin (41 + 41)$ so maybe this does work out nicely without a calculator.
    $endgroup$
    – fleablood
    Apr 20 '18 at 21:50














  • 1




    $begingroup$
    Hint: BD is a fixed length (relative to BC). So you have BD, $angle BDA$ and $AD$. So the triangle $BAD$ is fixed the angles $angle BDA$ and $angle BAD$ are fixed. Use the law of cosines to figure out exactly what they must be.
    $endgroup$
    – fleablood
    Apr 20 '18 at 21:18










  • $begingroup$
    It doesn't seem to be solvable without the law of sines or something similar. Because both $x$ and $y$ belond to the same triangle no matter how you see it.
    $endgroup$
    – GiaFil7
    Apr 20 '18 at 21:21












  • $begingroup$
    "Because both x and y belond to the same triangle no matter how you see it."... which means if you can find out the lengths of the three sides you can figure out what they are. You have all the angles of $triangle BCD$ so you have $BD$. With law of cosines and $angle BDA$ and sides $AB$ and $BD$ you can figure out $AD$. Then you have all three sides of $triangle BAD$ and one angle. That's enough to figure out the other two angles.
    $endgroup$
    – fleablood
    Apr 20 '18 at 21:38










  • $begingroup$
    Oh... sorry. You were saying it's not solvable without. True. At least I don't see it if there is something "special" about those particular angles. But we do have the law of sins and cos. That will determine. I doubt highly that they are 79 and 30.
    $endgroup$
    – fleablood
    Apr 20 '18 at 21:44










  • $begingroup$
    Oh, wait! $41 = frac 12 82$ so $sin 82 = sin (41 + 41)$ so maybe this does work out nicely without a calculator.
    $endgroup$
    – fleablood
    Apr 20 '18 at 21:50








1




1




$begingroup$
Hint: BD is a fixed length (relative to BC). So you have BD, $angle BDA$ and $AD$. So the triangle $BAD$ is fixed the angles $angle BDA$ and $angle BAD$ are fixed. Use the law of cosines to figure out exactly what they must be.
$endgroup$
– fleablood
Apr 20 '18 at 21:18




$begingroup$
Hint: BD is a fixed length (relative to BC). So you have BD, $angle BDA$ and $AD$. So the triangle $BAD$ is fixed the angles $angle BDA$ and $angle BAD$ are fixed. Use the law of cosines to figure out exactly what they must be.
$endgroup$
– fleablood
Apr 20 '18 at 21:18












$begingroup$
It doesn't seem to be solvable without the law of sines or something similar. Because both $x$ and $y$ belond to the same triangle no matter how you see it.
$endgroup$
– GiaFil7
Apr 20 '18 at 21:21






$begingroup$
It doesn't seem to be solvable without the law of sines or something similar. Because both $x$ and $y$ belond to the same triangle no matter how you see it.
$endgroup$
– GiaFil7
Apr 20 '18 at 21:21














$begingroup$
"Because both x and y belond to the same triangle no matter how you see it."... which means if you can find out the lengths of the three sides you can figure out what they are. You have all the angles of $triangle BCD$ so you have $BD$. With law of cosines and $angle BDA$ and sides $AB$ and $BD$ you can figure out $AD$. Then you have all three sides of $triangle BAD$ and one angle. That's enough to figure out the other two angles.
$endgroup$
– fleablood
Apr 20 '18 at 21:38




$begingroup$
"Because both x and y belond to the same triangle no matter how you see it."... which means if you can find out the lengths of the three sides you can figure out what they are. You have all the angles of $triangle BCD$ so you have $BD$. With law of cosines and $angle BDA$ and sides $AB$ and $BD$ you can figure out $AD$. Then you have all three sides of $triangle BAD$ and one angle. That's enough to figure out the other two angles.
$endgroup$
– fleablood
Apr 20 '18 at 21:38












$begingroup$
Oh... sorry. You were saying it's not solvable without. True. At least I don't see it if there is something "special" about those particular angles. But we do have the law of sins and cos. That will determine. I doubt highly that they are 79 and 30.
$endgroup$
– fleablood
Apr 20 '18 at 21:44




$begingroup$
Oh... sorry. You were saying it's not solvable without. True. At least I don't see it if there is something "special" about those particular angles. But we do have the law of sins and cos. That will determine. I doubt highly that they are 79 and 30.
$endgroup$
– fleablood
Apr 20 '18 at 21:44












$begingroup$
Oh, wait! $41 = frac 12 82$ so $sin 82 = sin (41 + 41)$ so maybe this does work out nicely without a calculator.
$endgroup$
– fleablood
Apr 20 '18 at 21:50




$begingroup$
Oh, wait! $41 = frac 12 82$ so $sin 82 = sin (41 + 41)$ so maybe this does work out nicely without a calculator.
$endgroup$
– fleablood
Apr 20 '18 at 21:50










3 Answers
3






active

oldest

votes


















1












$begingroup$

This problem is a particular case of a family of problems with broadly the same solution, so I will post this more general solution and then discuss particular instances of it.



Problem diagram



Problem. $angle BAC=3angle CAD$; $angle CBD=30^circ$; $AB=AD$. What is $angle DCA$?



Solution. Let $alpha=angle CAD$. $triangle BDA$ is isosceles on base $BD$. Therefore $angle DBA=angle ADB=90^circ-2alpha$ and $angle CBA=120^circ-2alpha$.



Let $E$ be on $BC$ such that $AE=AB$. Then $triangle BEA$ is isosceles on base $BE$. Therefore $angle AEB=angle EBA=120^circ-2alpha$, so $angle BAE=4alpha-60^circ$, so $angle EAD=60^circ$.



Therefore $triangle AED$ is equilateral, so $angle EAC=60^circ-alpha=angle ACE$, so $triangle CAE$ is isosceles on base $CA$, i.e. $CE=AE=DE$, so $triangle CDE$ is isosceles on base $CD$. $angle CED=2alpha$, so $angle DCE=90^circ-alpha$, so $angle DCA=30^circ$, which solves the problem. Note that $angle DCA$ is independent of $alpha$.



To adapt this to the current problem, relabel from $ABCD$ to $BCDA$ and specify $alpha=19^circ$.



If $alpha$ is specified as $20^circ$, and $angle DBA$ as $50^circ$, then the problem is [Langley]. $AB=AD$ is easily seen, and the proof proceeds as above. The above proof, but with angles as specified in Langley's problem, is due to J. W. Mercer.



If $alpha$ is specified as $16^circ$, then the problem is that at gogeometry. The point-lettering is the same, but the diagram is flipped.



[Langley] Langley, E. M. "Problem 644." Mathematical Gazette, 11: 173, 1922, according to David Darling






share|cite|improve this answer









$endgroup$





















    0












    $begingroup$

    Let L be the perpendicular bisector of AC. It cuts AC at M and will pass through B according to the given. The angles of $angle ABC$ are divided in sizes as shown. Note that BD is the angle bisector $angle ABM$.



    enter image description here



    Let P be a point on AB such that $angle ACP = 30^0$. The line CP cuts BM at V. Let BVM extended cut CD at U. Note that AUCV is a rhombus with $triangle CUV$ and $triangle AUV $ being equilateral.



    1) Form the green circle passing through D, A, B. Then, by angles in the same segment, $angle ADB = theta$ as shown. (The problem is solved if the value of $theta$ is found.)



    2) Form the red circle (center = B, radius = BC = BA). Let AH be the common chord of the two circles. Then, $theta = theta’$. Let CP extended cut the red circle at X. Let CD cut the red circle at Y. Since $angle ABY = 2 times angle ACY = … = 60^0$. This means AXBY is a rhombus with $triangle XAB$ and $triangle YAB$ being equilateral.



    If XY cuts AB at Z, then XY is the perpendicular bisector of AB.
    From the fact that all the blue-shaded angles are all equal to $30^0$, we can say that ABHY is also a rhombus with $theta = 30^0$.






    share|cite|improve this answer











    $endgroup$













    • $begingroup$
      Your figure is a bit cluttered and also difficult to see. Any chance you could clean it up a bit or at least enlarge it? You could for example remove everything to the right of the point H.
      $endgroup$
      – Jens
      Apr 22 '18 at 0:39










    • $begingroup$
      While you are at it, can you also change the labels to match the problem I posted so that it is easier to follow the proof.
      $endgroup$
      – Fixed Point
      Apr 22 '18 at 1:42










    • $begingroup$
      @Jens Have uploaded a larger picture. Cutting off the right side does not help too much because of the vertical limitation. The picture can be further enlarged slightly by double clicking it.
      $endgroup$
      – Mick
      Apr 22 '18 at 11:32










    • $begingroup$
      @FixedPoint The locations of A, B, C, D are based on an equivalent question posted (numbered as 2736192 and was deleted 2 days ago). Even the orientation is different, the logic remains the same. The idea is:- 1) Move $angle ADB$ to an equivalent position ($angle AHB$). 2) Discovering several rhombus(es). The hardest part is to prove XBH is a straight line. I tried not to rely on that requirement.
      $endgroup$
      – Mick
      Apr 22 '18 at 11:42










    • $begingroup$
      Thanks for enlarging the figure. Still can't follow your argument, though. You loose me at "Then, $angle ADB = theta$ as shown.". At this point you haven't yet defined $theta$. Or is that sentence your definition? But then what does that have to do with the green circle? I think you need to break down your proof in smaller digestable pieces.
      $endgroup$
      – Jens
      Apr 22 '18 at 13:43



















    -1












    $begingroup$

    Let $BC = 1$ unit.



    Law of sines:



    $frac {BD}{sin angle BCD} = frac {BC}{sin angle BDC}$.



    So $BD = frac {sin angle BCD}{sin angle BDC}$ units.



    Law of cosines



    $AD^2 = AB^2 + BD^2 - 2|AB||BD|cos angle ABD = 1 + BD^2 -2BDcosangle ABD$



    So $AD =sqrt {1 + BD^2 -2BDcosangle ABD}$



    Law of sines



    $frac {sin angle BAD}{BD} = frac {sin angle ADB}{BA=1} = frac {sin angle ABD}{AD}$.



    So $angle BAD = arcsin ( frac {sin angle ABD}{AD}BD)$



    And $angle ADB = arcsin (frac {sin angle ABD}{AD})$.






    share|cite|improve this answer









    $endgroup$













    • $begingroup$
      -1 I specifically said using high school geometry in the spirit of Euclid. Trigonometry, law of sines, and law of cosines are "not allowed". It is easy if we allow these.
      $endgroup$
      – Fixed Point
      Apr 20 '18 at 21:59






    • 1




      $begingroup$
      Lots of high schools teach basic trigonometry in first year geometry now. In fact, from what I've seen on this forum and others internet sites I'd say most geometry classes teach the definitions of sin, cos, tan and the law of sines and cosines. (but nothing more). I do know that I did not learn in in my geometry class but I also know I was teaching it in high school geometry 6 years later.
      $endgroup$
      – fleablood
      Apr 20 '18 at 22:12










    • $begingroup$
      $sin x = frac {sin 19}{sqrt{4cos^2 41 + 1 - 4cos 41cos 19}}=2.$ It is not immediately obvious why $4cos^2 41 + 1 - 4cos 41cos 19 = 4sin^2 19$ (It is, and I can get there with a lot of algebra, but it is very messy)
      $endgroup$
      – Doug M
      Apr 20 '18 at 22:18












    • $begingroup$
      Yeah... I was mucking about with that but not getting there. $82 = 41 + 41$ and $41 + 19 = 60$ and that's just too much of a coincidence not to be significant. But... I couldn't really work my way out of it.
      $endgroup$
      – fleablood
      Apr 20 '18 at 22:29











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    3 Answers
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    3 Answers
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    active

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    1












    $begingroup$

    This problem is a particular case of a family of problems with broadly the same solution, so I will post this more general solution and then discuss particular instances of it.



    Problem diagram



    Problem. $angle BAC=3angle CAD$; $angle CBD=30^circ$; $AB=AD$. What is $angle DCA$?



    Solution. Let $alpha=angle CAD$. $triangle BDA$ is isosceles on base $BD$. Therefore $angle DBA=angle ADB=90^circ-2alpha$ and $angle CBA=120^circ-2alpha$.



    Let $E$ be on $BC$ such that $AE=AB$. Then $triangle BEA$ is isosceles on base $BE$. Therefore $angle AEB=angle EBA=120^circ-2alpha$, so $angle BAE=4alpha-60^circ$, so $angle EAD=60^circ$.



    Therefore $triangle AED$ is equilateral, so $angle EAC=60^circ-alpha=angle ACE$, so $triangle CAE$ is isosceles on base $CA$, i.e. $CE=AE=DE$, so $triangle CDE$ is isosceles on base $CD$. $angle CED=2alpha$, so $angle DCE=90^circ-alpha$, so $angle DCA=30^circ$, which solves the problem. Note that $angle DCA$ is independent of $alpha$.



    To adapt this to the current problem, relabel from $ABCD$ to $BCDA$ and specify $alpha=19^circ$.



    If $alpha$ is specified as $20^circ$, and $angle DBA$ as $50^circ$, then the problem is [Langley]. $AB=AD$ is easily seen, and the proof proceeds as above. The above proof, but with angles as specified in Langley's problem, is due to J. W. Mercer.



    If $alpha$ is specified as $16^circ$, then the problem is that at gogeometry. The point-lettering is the same, but the diagram is flipped.



    [Langley] Langley, E. M. "Problem 644." Mathematical Gazette, 11: 173, 1922, according to David Darling






    share|cite|improve this answer









    $endgroup$


















      1












      $begingroup$

      This problem is a particular case of a family of problems with broadly the same solution, so I will post this more general solution and then discuss particular instances of it.



      Problem diagram



      Problem. $angle BAC=3angle CAD$; $angle CBD=30^circ$; $AB=AD$. What is $angle DCA$?



      Solution. Let $alpha=angle CAD$. $triangle BDA$ is isosceles on base $BD$. Therefore $angle DBA=angle ADB=90^circ-2alpha$ and $angle CBA=120^circ-2alpha$.



      Let $E$ be on $BC$ such that $AE=AB$. Then $triangle BEA$ is isosceles on base $BE$. Therefore $angle AEB=angle EBA=120^circ-2alpha$, so $angle BAE=4alpha-60^circ$, so $angle EAD=60^circ$.



      Therefore $triangle AED$ is equilateral, so $angle EAC=60^circ-alpha=angle ACE$, so $triangle CAE$ is isosceles on base $CA$, i.e. $CE=AE=DE$, so $triangle CDE$ is isosceles on base $CD$. $angle CED=2alpha$, so $angle DCE=90^circ-alpha$, so $angle DCA=30^circ$, which solves the problem. Note that $angle DCA$ is independent of $alpha$.



      To adapt this to the current problem, relabel from $ABCD$ to $BCDA$ and specify $alpha=19^circ$.



      If $alpha$ is specified as $20^circ$, and $angle DBA$ as $50^circ$, then the problem is [Langley]. $AB=AD$ is easily seen, and the proof proceeds as above. The above proof, but with angles as specified in Langley's problem, is due to J. W. Mercer.



      If $alpha$ is specified as $16^circ$, then the problem is that at gogeometry. The point-lettering is the same, but the diagram is flipped.



      [Langley] Langley, E. M. "Problem 644." Mathematical Gazette, 11: 173, 1922, according to David Darling






      share|cite|improve this answer









      $endgroup$
















        1












        1








        1





        $begingroup$

        This problem is a particular case of a family of problems with broadly the same solution, so I will post this more general solution and then discuss particular instances of it.



        Problem diagram



        Problem. $angle BAC=3angle CAD$; $angle CBD=30^circ$; $AB=AD$. What is $angle DCA$?



        Solution. Let $alpha=angle CAD$. $triangle BDA$ is isosceles on base $BD$. Therefore $angle DBA=angle ADB=90^circ-2alpha$ and $angle CBA=120^circ-2alpha$.



        Let $E$ be on $BC$ such that $AE=AB$. Then $triangle BEA$ is isosceles on base $BE$. Therefore $angle AEB=angle EBA=120^circ-2alpha$, so $angle BAE=4alpha-60^circ$, so $angle EAD=60^circ$.



        Therefore $triangle AED$ is equilateral, so $angle EAC=60^circ-alpha=angle ACE$, so $triangle CAE$ is isosceles on base $CA$, i.e. $CE=AE=DE$, so $triangle CDE$ is isosceles on base $CD$. $angle CED=2alpha$, so $angle DCE=90^circ-alpha$, so $angle DCA=30^circ$, which solves the problem. Note that $angle DCA$ is independent of $alpha$.



        To adapt this to the current problem, relabel from $ABCD$ to $BCDA$ and specify $alpha=19^circ$.



        If $alpha$ is specified as $20^circ$, and $angle DBA$ as $50^circ$, then the problem is [Langley]. $AB=AD$ is easily seen, and the proof proceeds as above. The above proof, but with angles as specified in Langley's problem, is due to J. W. Mercer.



        If $alpha$ is specified as $16^circ$, then the problem is that at gogeometry. The point-lettering is the same, but the diagram is flipped.



        [Langley] Langley, E. M. "Problem 644." Mathematical Gazette, 11: 173, 1922, according to David Darling






        share|cite|improve this answer









        $endgroup$



        This problem is a particular case of a family of problems with broadly the same solution, so I will post this more general solution and then discuss particular instances of it.



        Problem diagram



        Problem. $angle BAC=3angle CAD$; $angle CBD=30^circ$; $AB=AD$. What is $angle DCA$?



        Solution. Let $alpha=angle CAD$. $triangle BDA$ is isosceles on base $BD$. Therefore $angle DBA=angle ADB=90^circ-2alpha$ and $angle CBA=120^circ-2alpha$.



        Let $E$ be on $BC$ such that $AE=AB$. Then $triangle BEA$ is isosceles on base $BE$. Therefore $angle AEB=angle EBA=120^circ-2alpha$, so $angle BAE=4alpha-60^circ$, so $angle EAD=60^circ$.



        Therefore $triangle AED$ is equilateral, so $angle EAC=60^circ-alpha=angle ACE$, so $triangle CAE$ is isosceles on base $CA$, i.e. $CE=AE=DE$, so $triangle CDE$ is isosceles on base $CD$. $angle CED=2alpha$, so $angle DCE=90^circ-alpha$, so $angle DCA=30^circ$, which solves the problem. Note that $angle DCA$ is independent of $alpha$.



        To adapt this to the current problem, relabel from $ABCD$ to $BCDA$ and specify $alpha=19^circ$.



        If $alpha$ is specified as $20^circ$, and $angle DBA$ as $50^circ$, then the problem is [Langley]. $AB=AD$ is easily seen, and the proof proceeds as above. The above proof, but with angles as specified in Langley's problem, is due to J. W. Mercer.



        If $alpha$ is specified as $16^circ$, then the problem is that at gogeometry. The point-lettering is the same, but the diagram is flipped.



        [Langley] Langley, E. M. "Problem 644." Mathematical Gazette, 11: 173, 1922, according to David Darling







        share|cite|improve this answer












        share|cite|improve this answer



        share|cite|improve this answer










        answered Jan 19 at 17:22









        Rosie FRosie F

        1,313315




        1,313315























            0












            $begingroup$

            Let L be the perpendicular bisector of AC. It cuts AC at M and will pass through B according to the given. The angles of $angle ABC$ are divided in sizes as shown. Note that BD is the angle bisector $angle ABM$.



            enter image description here



            Let P be a point on AB such that $angle ACP = 30^0$. The line CP cuts BM at V. Let BVM extended cut CD at U. Note that AUCV is a rhombus with $triangle CUV$ and $triangle AUV $ being equilateral.



            1) Form the green circle passing through D, A, B. Then, by angles in the same segment, $angle ADB = theta$ as shown. (The problem is solved if the value of $theta$ is found.)



            2) Form the red circle (center = B, radius = BC = BA). Let AH be the common chord of the two circles. Then, $theta = theta’$. Let CP extended cut the red circle at X. Let CD cut the red circle at Y. Since $angle ABY = 2 times angle ACY = … = 60^0$. This means AXBY is a rhombus with $triangle XAB$ and $triangle YAB$ being equilateral.



            If XY cuts AB at Z, then XY is the perpendicular bisector of AB.
            From the fact that all the blue-shaded angles are all equal to $30^0$, we can say that ABHY is also a rhombus with $theta = 30^0$.






            share|cite|improve this answer











            $endgroup$













            • $begingroup$
              Your figure is a bit cluttered and also difficult to see. Any chance you could clean it up a bit or at least enlarge it? You could for example remove everything to the right of the point H.
              $endgroup$
              – Jens
              Apr 22 '18 at 0:39










            • $begingroup$
              While you are at it, can you also change the labels to match the problem I posted so that it is easier to follow the proof.
              $endgroup$
              – Fixed Point
              Apr 22 '18 at 1:42










            • $begingroup$
              @Jens Have uploaded a larger picture. Cutting off the right side does not help too much because of the vertical limitation. The picture can be further enlarged slightly by double clicking it.
              $endgroup$
              – Mick
              Apr 22 '18 at 11:32










            • $begingroup$
              @FixedPoint The locations of A, B, C, D are based on an equivalent question posted (numbered as 2736192 and was deleted 2 days ago). Even the orientation is different, the logic remains the same. The idea is:- 1) Move $angle ADB$ to an equivalent position ($angle AHB$). 2) Discovering several rhombus(es). The hardest part is to prove XBH is a straight line. I tried not to rely on that requirement.
              $endgroup$
              – Mick
              Apr 22 '18 at 11:42










            • $begingroup$
              Thanks for enlarging the figure. Still can't follow your argument, though. You loose me at "Then, $angle ADB = theta$ as shown.". At this point you haven't yet defined $theta$. Or is that sentence your definition? But then what does that have to do with the green circle? I think you need to break down your proof in smaller digestable pieces.
              $endgroup$
              – Jens
              Apr 22 '18 at 13:43
















            0












            $begingroup$

            Let L be the perpendicular bisector of AC. It cuts AC at M and will pass through B according to the given. The angles of $angle ABC$ are divided in sizes as shown. Note that BD is the angle bisector $angle ABM$.



            enter image description here



            Let P be a point on AB such that $angle ACP = 30^0$. The line CP cuts BM at V. Let BVM extended cut CD at U. Note that AUCV is a rhombus with $triangle CUV$ and $triangle AUV $ being equilateral.



            1) Form the green circle passing through D, A, B. Then, by angles in the same segment, $angle ADB = theta$ as shown. (The problem is solved if the value of $theta$ is found.)



            2) Form the red circle (center = B, radius = BC = BA). Let AH be the common chord of the two circles. Then, $theta = theta’$. Let CP extended cut the red circle at X. Let CD cut the red circle at Y. Since $angle ABY = 2 times angle ACY = … = 60^0$. This means AXBY is a rhombus with $triangle XAB$ and $triangle YAB$ being equilateral.



            If XY cuts AB at Z, then XY is the perpendicular bisector of AB.
            From the fact that all the blue-shaded angles are all equal to $30^0$, we can say that ABHY is also a rhombus with $theta = 30^0$.






            share|cite|improve this answer











            $endgroup$













            • $begingroup$
              Your figure is a bit cluttered and also difficult to see. Any chance you could clean it up a bit or at least enlarge it? You could for example remove everything to the right of the point H.
              $endgroup$
              – Jens
              Apr 22 '18 at 0:39










            • $begingroup$
              While you are at it, can you also change the labels to match the problem I posted so that it is easier to follow the proof.
              $endgroup$
              – Fixed Point
              Apr 22 '18 at 1:42










            • $begingroup$
              @Jens Have uploaded a larger picture. Cutting off the right side does not help too much because of the vertical limitation. The picture can be further enlarged slightly by double clicking it.
              $endgroup$
              – Mick
              Apr 22 '18 at 11:32










            • $begingroup$
              @FixedPoint The locations of A, B, C, D are based on an equivalent question posted (numbered as 2736192 and was deleted 2 days ago). Even the orientation is different, the logic remains the same. The idea is:- 1) Move $angle ADB$ to an equivalent position ($angle AHB$). 2) Discovering several rhombus(es). The hardest part is to prove XBH is a straight line. I tried not to rely on that requirement.
              $endgroup$
              – Mick
              Apr 22 '18 at 11:42










            • $begingroup$
              Thanks for enlarging the figure. Still can't follow your argument, though. You loose me at "Then, $angle ADB = theta$ as shown.". At this point you haven't yet defined $theta$. Or is that sentence your definition? But then what does that have to do with the green circle? I think you need to break down your proof in smaller digestable pieces.
              $endgroup$
              – Jens
              Apr 22 '18 at 13:43














            0












            0








            0





            $begingroup$

            Let L be the perpendicular bisector of AC. It cuts AC at M and will pass through B according to the given. The angles of $angle ABC$ are divided in sizes as shown. Note that BD is the angle bisector $angle ABM$.



            enter image description here



            Let P be a point on AB such that $angle ACP = 30^0$. The line CP cuts BM at V. Let BVM extended cut CD at U. Note that AUCV is a rhombus with $triangle CUV$ and $triangle AUV $ being equilateral.



            1) Form the green circle passing through D, A, B. Then, by angles in the same segment, $angle ADB = theta$ as shown. (The problem is solved if the value of $theta$ is found.)



            2) Form the red circle (center = B, radius = BC = BA). Let AH be the common chord of the two circles. Then, $theta = theta’$. Let CP extended cut the red circle at X. Let CD cut the red circle at Y. Since $angle ABY = 2 times angle ACY = … = 60^0$. This means AXBY is a rhombus with $triangle XAB$ and $triangle YAB$ being equilateral.



            If XY cuts AB at Z, then XY is the perpendicular bisector of AB.
            From the fact that all the blue-shaded angles are all equal to $30^0$, we can say that ABHY is also a rhombus with $theta = 30^0$.






            share|cite|improve this answer











            $endgroup$



            Let L be the perpendicular bisector of AC. It cuts AC at M and will pass through B according to the given. The angles of $angle ABC$ are divided in sizes as shown. Note that BD is the angle bisector $angle ABM$.



            enter image description here



            Let P be a point on AB such that $angle ACP = 30^0$. The line CP cuts BM at V. Let BVM extended cut CD at U. Note that AUCV is a rhombus with $triangle CUV$ and $triangle AUV $ being equilateral.



            1) Form the green circle passing through D, A, B. Then, by angles in the same segment, $angle ADB = theta$ as shown. (The problem is solved if the value of $theta$ is found.)



            2) Form the red circle (center = B, radius = BC = BA). Let AH be the common chord of the two circles. Then, $theta = theta’$. Let CP extended cut the red circle at X. Let CD cut the red circle at Y. Since $angle ABY = 2 times angle ACY = … = 60^0$. This means AXBY is a rhombus with $triangle XAB$ and $triangle YAB$ being equilateral.



            If XY cuts AB at Z, then XY is the perpendicular bisector of AB.
            From the fact that all the blue-shaded angles are all equal to $30^0$, we can say that ABHY is also a rhombus with $theta = 30^0$.







            share|cite|improve this answer














            share|cite|improve this answer



            share|cite|improve this answer








            edited Apr 23 '18 at 3:38

























            answered Apr 21 '18 at 19:05









            MickMick

            11.9k21641




            11.9k21641












            • $begingroup$
              Your figure is a bit cluttered and also difficult to see. Any chance you could clean it up a bit or at least enlarge it? You could for example remove everything to the right of the point H.
              $endgroup$
              – Jens
              Apr 22 '18 at 0:39










            • $begingroup$
              While you are at it, can you also change the labels to match the problem I posted so that it is easier to follow the proof.
              $endgroup$
              – Fixed Point
              Apr 22 '18 at 1:42










            • $begingroup$
              @Jens Have uploaded a larger picture. Cutting off the right side does not help too much because of the vertical limitation. The picture can be further enlarged slightly by double clicking it.
              $endgroup$
              – Mick
              Apr 22 '18 at 11:32










            • $begingroup$
              @FixedPoint The locations of A, B, C, D are based on an equivalent question posted (numbered as 2736192 and was deleted 2 days ago). Even the orientation is different, the logic remains the same. The idea is:- 1) Move $angle ADB$ to an equivalent position ($angle AHB$). 2) Discovering several rhombus(es). The hardest part is to prove XBH is a straight line. I tried not to rely on that requirement.
              $endgroup$
              – Mick
              Apr 22 '18 at 11:42










            • $begingroup$
              Thanks for enlarging the figure. Still can't follow your argument, though. You loose me at "Then, $angle ADB = theta$ as shown.". At this point you haven't yet defined $theta$. Or is that sentence your definition? But then what does that have to do with the green circle? I think you need to break down your proof in smaller digestable pieces.
              $endgroup$
              – Jens
              Apr 22 '18 at 13:43


















            • $begingroup$
              Your figure is a bit cluttered and also difficult to see. Any chance you could clean it up a bit or at least enlarge it? You could for example remove everything to the right of the point H.
              $endgroup$
              – Jens
              Apr 22 '18 at 0:39










            • $begingroup$
              While you are at it, can you also change the labels to match the problem I posted so that it is easier to follow the proof.
              $endgroup$
              – Fixed Point
              Apr 22 '18 at 1:42










            • $begingroup$
              @Jens Have uploaded a larger picture. Cutting off the right side does not help too much because of the vertical limitation. The picture can be further enlarged slightly by double clicking it.
              $endgroup$
              – Mick
              Apr 22 '18 at 11:32










            • $begingroup$
              @FixedPoint The locations of A, B, C, D are based on an equivalent question posted (numbered as 2736192 and was deleted 2 days ago). Even the orientation is different, the logic remains the same. The idea is:- 1) Move $angle ADB$ to an equivalent position ($angle AHB$). 2) Discovering several rhombus(es). The hardest part is to prove XBH is a straight line. I tried not to rely on that requirement.
              $endgroup$
              – Mick
              Apr 22 '18 at 11:42










            • $begingroup$
              Thanks for enlarging the figure. Still can't follow your argument, though. You loose me at "Then, $angle ADB = theta$ as shown.". At this point you haven't yet defined $theta$. Or is that sentence your definition? But then what does that have to do with the green circle? I think you need to break down your proof in smaller digestable pieces.
              $endgroup$
              – Jens
              Apr 22 '18 at 13:43
















            $begingroup$
            Your figure is a bit cluttered and also difficult to see. Any chance you could clean it up a bit or at least enlarge it? You could for example remove everything to the right of the point H.
            $endgroup$
            – Jens
            Apr 22 '18 at 0:39




            $begingroup$
            Your figure is a bit cluttered and also difficult to see. Any chance you could clean it up a bit or at least enlarge it? You could for example remove everything to the right of the point H.
            $endgroup$
            – Jens
            Apr 22 '18 at 0:39












            $begingroup$
            While you are at it, can you also change the labels to match the problem I posted so that it is easier to follow the proof.
            $endgroup$
            – Fixed Point
            Apr 22 '18 at 1:42




            $begingroup$
            While you are at it, can you also change the labels to match the problem I posted so that it is easier to follow the proof.
            $endgroup$
            – Fixed Point
            Apr 22 '18 at 1:42












            $begingroup$
            @Jens Have uploaded a larger picture. Cutting off the right side does not help too much because of the vertical limitation. The picture can be further enlarged slightly by double clicking it.
            $endgroup$
            – Mick
            Apr 22 '18 at 11:32




            $begingroup$
            @Jens Have uploaded a larger picture. Cutting off the right side does not help too much because of the vertical limitation. The picture can be further enlarged slightly by double clicking it.
            $endgroup$
            – Mick
            Apr 22 '18 at 11:32












            $begingroup$
            @FixedPoint The locations of A, B, C, D are based on an equivalent question posted (numbered as 2736192 and was deleted 2 days ago). Even the orientation is different, the logic remains the same. The idea is:- 1) Move $angle ADB$ to an equivalent position ($angle AHB$). 2) Discovering several rhombus(es). The hardest part is to prove XBH is a straight line. I tried not to rely on that requirement.
            $endgroup$
            – Mick
            Apr 22 '18 at 11:42




            $begingroup$
            @FixedPoint The locations of A, B, C, D are based on an equivalent question posted (numbered as 2736192 and was deleted 2 days ago). Even the orientation is different, the logic remains the same. The idea is:- 1) Move $angle ADB$ to an equivalent position ($angle AHB$). 2) Discovering several rhombus(es). The hardest part is to prove XBH is a straight line. I tried not to rely on that requirement.
            $endgroup$
            – Mick
            Apr 22 '18 at 11:42












            $begingroup$
            Thanks for enlarging the figure. Still can't follow your argument, though. You loose me at "Then, $angle ADB = theta$ as shown.". At this point you haven't yet defined $theta$. Or is that sentence your definition? But then what does that have to do with the green circle? I think you need to break down your proof in smaller digestable pieces.
            $endgroup$
            – Jens
            Apr 22 '18 at 13:43




            $begingroup$
            Thanks for enlarging the figure. Still can't follow your argument, though. You loose me at "Then, $angle ADB = theta$ as shown.". At this point you haven't yet defined $theta$. Or is that sentence your definition? But then what does that have to do with the green circle? I think you need to break down your proof in smaller digestable pieces.
            $endgroup$
            – Jens
            Apr 22 '18 at 13:43











            -1












            $begingroup$

            Let $BC = 1$ unit.



            Law of sines:



            $frac {BD}{sin angle BCD} = frac {BC}{sin angle BDC}$.



            So $BD = frac {sin angle BCD}{sin angle BDC}$ units.



            Law of cosines



            $AD^2 = AB^2 + BD^2 - 2|AB||BD|cos angle ABD = 1 + BD^2 -2BDcosangle ABD$



            So $AD =sqrt {1 + BD^2 -2BDcosangle ABD}$



            Law of sines



            $frac {sin angle BAD}{BD} = frac {sin angle ADB}{BA=1} = frac {sin angle ABD}{AD}$.



            So $angle BAD = arcsin ( frac {sin angle ABD}{AD}BD)$



            And $angle ADB = arcsin (frac {sin angle ABD}{AD})$.






            share|cite|improve this answer









            $endgroup$













            • $begingroup$
              -1 I specifically said using high school geometry in the spirit of Euclid. Trigonometry, law of sines, and law of cosines are "not allowed". It is easy if we allow these.
              $endgroup$
              – Fixed Point
              Apr 20 '18 at 21:59






            • 1




              $begingroup$
              Lots of high schools teach basic trigonometry in first year geometry now. In fact, from what I've seen on this forum and others internet sites I'd say most geometry classes teach the definitions of sin, cos, tan and the law of sines and cosines. (but nothing more). I do know that I did not learn in in my geometry class but I also know I was teaching it in high school geometry 6 years later.
              $endgroup$
              – fleablood
              Apr 20 '18 at 22:12










            • $begingroup$
              $sin x = frac {sin 19}{sqrt{4cos^2 41 + 1 - 4cos 41cos 19}}=2.$ It is not immediately obvious why $4cos^2 41 + 1 - 4cos 41cos 19 = 4sin^2 19$ (It is, and I can get there with a lot of algebra, but it is very messy)
              $endgroup$
              – Doug M
              Apr 20 '18 at 22:18












            • $begingroup$
              Yeah... I was mucking about with that but not getting there. $82 = 41 + 41$ and $41 + 19 = 60$ and that's just too much of a coincidence not to be significant. But... I couldn't really work my way out of it.
              $endgroup$
              – fleablood
              Apr 20 '18 at 22:29
















            -1












            $begingroup$

            Let $BC = 1$ unit.



            Law of sines:



            $frac {BD}{sin angle BCD} = frac {BC}{sin angle BDC}$.



            So $BD = frac {sin angle BCD}{sin angle BDC}$ units.



            Law of cosines



            $AD^2 = AB^2 + BD^2 - 2|AB||BD|cos angle ABD = 1 + BD^2 -2BDcosangle ABD$



            So $AD =sqrt {1 + BD^2 -2BDcosangle ABD}$



            Law of sines



            $frac {sin angle BAD}{BD} = frac {sin angle ADB}{BA=1} = frac {sin angle ABD}{AD}$.



            So $angle BAD = arcsin ( frac {sin angle ABD}{AD}BD)$



            And $angle ADB = arcsin (frac {sin angle ABD}{AD})$.






            share|cite|improve this answer









            $endgroup$













            • $begingroup$
              -1 I specifically said using high school geometry in the spirit of Euclid. Trigonometry, law of sines, and law of cosines are "not allowed". It is easy if we allow these.
              $endgroup$
              – Fixed Point
              Apr 20 '18 at 21:59






            • 1




              $begingroup$
              Lots of high schools teach basic trigonometry in first year geometry now. In fact, from what I've seen on this forum and others internet sites I'd say most geometry classes teach the definitions of sin, cos, tan and the law of sines and cosines. (but nothing more). I do know that I did not learn in in my geometry class but I also know I was teaching it in high school geometry 6 years later.
              $endgroup$
              – fleablood
              Apr 20 '18 at 22:12










            • $begingroup$
              $sin x = frac {sin 19}{sqrt{4cos^2 41 + 1 - 4cos 41cos 19}}=2.$ It is not immediately obvious why $4cos^2 41 + 1 - 4cos 41cos 19 = 4sin^2 19$ (It is, and I can get there with a lot of algebra, but it is very messy)
              $endgroup$
              – Doug M
              Apr 20 '18 at 22:18












            • $begingroup$
              Yeah... I was mucking about with that but not getting there. $82 = 41 + 41$ and $41 + 19 = 60$ and that's just too much of a coincidence not to be significant. But... I couldn't really work my way out of it.
              $endgroup$
              – fleablood
              Apr 20 '18 at 22:29














            -1












            -1








            -1





            $begingroup$

            Let $BC = 1$ unit.



            Law of sines:



            $frac {BD}{sin angle BCD} = frac {BC}{sin angle BDC}$.



            So $BD = frac {sin angle BCD}{sin angle BDC}$ units.



            Law of cosines



            $AD^2 = AB^2 + BD^2 - 2|AB||BD|cos angle ABD = 1 + BD^2 -2BDcosangle ABD$



            So $AD =sqrt {1 + BD^2 -2BDcosangle ABD}$



            Law of sines



            $frac {sin angle BAD}{BD} = frac {sin angle ADB}{BA=1} = frac {sin angle ABD}{AD}$.



            So $angle BAD = arcsin ( frac {sin angle ABD}{AD}BD)$



            And $angle ADB = arcsin (frac {sin angle ABD}{AD})$.






            share|cite|improve this answer









            $endgroup$



            Let $BC = 1$ unit.



            Law of sines:



            $frac {BD}{sin angle BCD} = frac {BC}{sin angle BDC}$.



            So $BD = frac {sin angle BCD}{sin angle BDC}$ units.



            Law of cosines



            $AD^2 = AB^2 + BD^2 - 2|AB||BD|cos angle ABD = 1 + BD^2 -2BDcosangle ABD$



            So $AD =sqrt {1 + BD^2 -2BDcosangle ABD}$



            Law of sines



            $frac {sin angle BAD}{BD} = frac {sin angle ADB}{BA=1} = frac {sin angle ABD}{AD}$.



            So $angle BAD = arcsin ( frac {sin angle ABD}{AD}BD)$



            And $angle ADB = arcsin (frac {sin angle ABD}{AD})$.







            share|cite|improve this answer












            share|cite|improve this answer



            share|cite|improve this answer










            answered Apr 20 '18 at 21:34









            fleabloodfleablood

            71k22686




            71k22686












            • $begingroup$
              -1 I specifically said using high school geometry in the spirit of Euclid. Trigonometry, law of sines, and law of cosines are "not allowed". It is easy if we allow these.
              $endgroup$
              – Fixed Point
              Apr 20 '18 at 21:59






            • 1




              $begingroup$
              Lots of high schools teach basic trigonometry in first year geometry now. In fact, from what I've seen on this forum and others internet sites I'd say most geometry classes teach the definitions of sin, cos, tan and the law of sines and cosines. (but nothing more). I do know that I did not learn in in my geometry class but I also know I was teaching it in high school geometry 6 years later.
              $endgroup$
              – fleablood
              Apr 20 '18 at 22:12










            • $begingroup$
              $sin x = frac {sin 19}{sqrt{4cos^2 41 + 1 - 4cos 41cos 19}}=2.$ It is not immediately obvious why $4cos^2 41 + 1 - 4cos 41cos 19 = 4sin^2 19$ (It is, and I can get there with a lot of algebra, but it is very messy)
              $endgroup$
              – Doug M
              Apr 20 '18 at 22:18












            • $begingroup$
              Yeah... I was mucking about with that but not getting there. $82 = 41 + 41$ and $41 + 19 = 60$ and that's just too much of a coincidence not to be significant. But... I couldn't really work my way out of it.
              $endgroup$
              – fleablood
              Apr 20 '18 at 22:29


















            • $begingroup$
              -1 I specifically said using high school geometry in the spirit of Euclid. Trigonometry, law of sines, and law of cosines are "not allowed". It is easy if we allow these.
              $endgroup$
              – Fixed Point
              Apr 20 '18 at 21:59






            • 1




              $begingroup$
              Lots of high schools teach basic trigonometry in first year geometry now. In fact, from what I've seen on this forum and others internet sites I'd say most geometry classes teach the definitions of sin, cos, tan and the law of sines and cosines. (but nothing more). I do know that I did not learn in in my geometry class but I also know I was teaching it in high school geometry 6 years later.
              $endgroup$
              – fleablood
              Apr 20 '18 at 22:12










            • $begingroup$
              $sin x = frac {sin 19}{sqrt{4cos^2 41 + 1 - 4cos 41cos 19}}=2.$ It is not immediately obvious why $4cos^2 41 + 1 - 4cos 41cos 19 = 4sin^2 19$ (It is, and I can get there with a lot of algebra, but it is very messy)
              $endgroup$
              – Doug M
              Apr 20 '18 at 22:18












            • $begingroup$
              Yeah... I was mucking about with that but not getting there. $82 = 41 + 41$ and $41 + 19 = 60$ and that's just too much of a coincidence not to be significant. But... I couldn't really work my way out of it.
              $endgroup$
              – fleablood
              Apr 20 '18 at 22:29
















            $begingroup$
            -1 I specifically said using high school geometry in the spirit of Euclid. Trigonometry, law of sines, and law of cosines are "not allowed". It is easy if we allow these.
            $endgroup$
            – Fixed Point
            Apr 20 '18 at 21:59




            $begingroup$
            -1 I specifically said using high school geometry in the spirit of Euclid. Trigonometry, law of sines, and law of cosines are "not allowed". It is easy if we allow these.
            $endgroup$
            – Fixed Point
            Apr 20 '18 at 21:59




            1




            1




            $begingroup$
            Lots of high schools teach basic trigonometry in first year geometry now. In fact, from what I've seen on this forum and others internet sites I'd say most geometry classes teach the definitions of sin, cos, tan and the law of sines and cosines. (but nothing more). I do know that I did not learn in in my geometry class but I also know I was teaching it in high school geometry 6 years later.
            $endgroup$
            – fleablood
            Apr 20 '18 at 22:12




            $begingroup$
            Lots of high schools teach basic trigonometry in first year geometry now. In fact, from what I've seen on this forum and others internet sites I'd say most geometry classes teach the definitions of sin, cos, tan and the law of sines and cosines. (but nothing more). I do know that I did not learn in in my geometry class but I also know I was teaching it in high school geometry 6 years later.
            $endgroup$
            – fleablood
            Apr 20 '18 at 22:12












            $begingroup$
            $sin x = frac {sin 19}{sqrt{4cos^2 41 + 1 - 4cos 41cos 19}}=2.$ It is not immediately obvious why $4cos^2 41 + 1 - 4cos 41cos 19 = 4sin^2 19$ (It is, and I can get there with a lot of algebra, but it is very messy)
            $endgroup$
            – Doug M
            Apr 20 '18 at 22:18






            $begingroup$
            $sin x = frac {sin 19}{sqrt{4cos^2 41 + 1 - 4cos 41cos 19}}=2.$ It is not immediately obvious why $4cos^2 41 + 1 - 4cos 41cos 19 = 4sin^2 19$ (It is, and I can get there with a lot of algebra, but it is very messy)
            $endgroup$
            – Doug M
            Apr 20 '18 at 22:18














            $begingroup$
            Yeah... I was mucking about with that but not getting there. $82 = 41 + 41$ and $41 + 19 = 60$ and that's just too much of a coincidence not to be significant. But... I couldn't really work my way out of it.
            $endgroup$
            – fleablood
            Apr 20 '18 at 22:29




            $begingroup$
            Yeah... I was mucking about with that but not getting there. $82 = 41 + 41$ and $41 + 19 = 60$ and that's just too much of a coincidence not to be significant. But... I couldn't really work my way out of it.
            $endgroup$
            – fleablood
            Apr 20 '18 at 22:29


















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