How to numerically solve this ODE: $y''' left(xright)=-0.5cdot y left(xright) cdot y''left( x right) -0.05 $
$begingroup$
I am trying to numerically solve the following ordinary differential equation that I encountered in one article:
$$ y''' left( x right) =-0.5cdot y left( x right) cdot y'' left( x right) -0.05 $$
This equation has the following boundary conditions:
- At $ x=0$: $y left( x right) =y' left( x right) =0 $
- At $ x=infty$: $y' left( x right) =1$, $y'' left( x right) =0 $
In the article it is written that we can rewrite our equation in the following way
begin{align}
y' left( x right) &=f left( x right) \
f' left( x right) &=g left( x right) \
g' left( x right) &=-0.5cdot y left( x right) cdot g left( x right) -0.05
end{align}
with the following boundary conditions
- At $x=0$: $y left( x right) =f left( x right) =0 $
- At $x=infty$: $f left( x right) =1$, $g left( x right) =0 $
and that we need to assume g(x=0) as a first guess and solve our equation with the Runge Kutta fourth order method (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Runge%E2%80%93Kutta_methods).
The problem is that I do not know how to do that in my case since 4-th order Runge-Kutta method is normally used to solve first-order ODE.
numerical-methods
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
I am trying to numerically solve the following ordinary differential equation that I encountered in one article:
$$ y''' left( x right) =-0.5cdot y left( x right) cdot y'' left( x right) -0.05 $$
This equation has the following boundary conditions:
- At $ x=0$: $y left( x right) =y' left( x right) =0 $
- At $ x=infty$: $y' left( x right) =1$, $y'' left( x right) =0 $
In the article it is written that we can rewrite our equation in the following way
begin{align}
y' left( x right) &=f left( x right) \
f' left( x right) &=g left( x right) \
g' left( x right) &=-0.5cdot y left( x right) cdot g left( x right) -0.05
end{align}
with the following boundary conditions
- At $x=0$: $y left( x right) =f left( x right) =0 $
- At $x=infty$: $f left( x right) =1$, $g left( x right) =0 $
and that we need to assume g(x=0) as a first guess and solve our equation with the Runge Kutta fourth order method (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Runge%E2%80%93Kutta_methods).
The problem is that I do not know how to do that in my case since 4-th order Runge-Kutta method is normally used to solve first-order ODE.
numerical-methods
$endgroup$
1
$begingroup$
OMG my brain hurts. Can you please typeset all the equations?
$endgroup$
– Aleksejs Fomins
Jan 17 at 8:47
$begingroup$
I am working on that.
$endgroup$
– t387
Jan 17 at 9:51
$begingroup$
This seems impossible. $y''(x)approx 0$ for $yapprox infty$ suggests $y'''(x)approx 0$ there, but by the equation, $y'''(x)approx -0.05$ for $xapproxinfty$.
$endgroup$
– LutzL
Jan 17 at 10:05
add a comment |
$begingroup$
I am trying to numerically solve the following ordinary differential equation that I encountered in one article:
$$ y''' left( x right) =-0.5cdot y left( x right) cdot y'' left( x right) -0.05 $$
This equation has the following boundary conditions:
- At $ x=0$: $y left( x right) =y' left( x right) =0 $
- At $ x=infty$: $y' left( x right) =1$, $y'' left( x right) =0 $
In the article it is written that we can rewrite our equation in the following way
begin{align}
y' left( x right) &=f left( x right) \
f' left( x right) &=g left( x right) \
g' left( x right) &=-0.5cdot y left( x right) cdot g left( x right) -0.05
end{align}
with the following boundary conditions
- At $x=0$: $y left( x right) =f left( x right) =0 $
- At $x=infty$: $f left( x right) =1$, $g left( x right) =0 $
and that we need to assume g(x=0) as a first guess and solve our equation with the Runge Kutta fourth order method (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Runge%E2%80%93Kutta_methods).
The problem is that I do not know how to do that in my case since 4-th order Runge-Kutta method is normally used to solve first-order ODE.
numerical-methods
$endgroup$
I am trying to numerically solve the following ordinary differential equation that I encountered in one article:
$$ y''' left( x right) =-0.5cdot y left( x right) cdot y'' left( x right) -0.05 $$
This equation has the following boundary conditions:
- At $ x=0$: $y left( x right) =y' left( x right) =0 $
- At $ x=infty$: $y' left( x right) =1$, $y'' left( x right) =0 $
In the article it is written that we can rewrite our equation in the following way
begin{align}
y' left( x right) &=f left( x right) \
f' left( x right) &=g left( x right) \
g' left( x right) &=-0.5cdot y left( x right) cdot g left( x right) -0.05
end{align}
with the following boundary conditions
- At $x=0$: $y left( x right) =f left( x right) =0 $
- At $x=infty$: $f left( x right) =1$, $g left( x right) =0 $
and that we need to assume g(x=0) as a first guess and solve our equation with the Runge Kutta fourth order method (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Runge%E2%80%93Kutta_methods).
The problem is that I do not know how to do that in my case since 4-th order Runge-Kutta method is normally used to solve first-order ODE.
numerical-methods
numerical-methods
edited Jan 17 at 11:04
LutzL
58.1k42054
58.1k42054
asked Jan 17 at 8:00
t387t387
235
235
1
$begingroup$
OMG my brain hurts. Can you please typeset all the equations?
$endgroup$
– Aleksejs Fomins
Jan 17 at 8:47
$begingroup$
I am working on that.
$endgroup$
– t387
Jan 17 at 9:51
$begingroup$
This seems impossible. $y''(x)approx 0$ for $yapprox infty$ suggests $y'''(x)approx 0$ there, but by the equation, $y'''(x)approx -0.05$ for $xapproxinfty$.
$endgroup$
– LutzL
Jan 17 at 10:05
add a comment |
1
$begingroup$
OMG my brain hurts. Can you please typeset all the equations?
$endgroup$
– Aleksejs Fomins
Jan 17 at 8:47
$begingroup$
I am working on that.
$endgroup$
– t387
Jan 17 at 9:51
$begingroup$
This seems impossible. $y''(x)approx 0$ for $yapprox infty$ suggests $y'''(x)approx 0$ there, but by the equation, $y'''(x)approx -0.05$ for $xapproxinfty$.
$endgroup$
– LutzL
Jan 17 at 10:05
1
1
$begingroup$
OMG my brain hurts. Can you please typeset all the equations?
$endgroup$
– Aleksejs Fomins
Jan 17 at 8:47
$begingroup$
OMG my brain hurts. Can you please typeset all the equations?
$endgroup$
– Aleksejs Fomins
Jan 17 at 8:47
$begingroup$
I am working on that.
$endgroup$
– t387
Jan 17 at 9:51
$begingroup$
I am working on that.
$endgroup$
– t387
Jan 17 at 9:51
$begingroup$
This seems impossible. $y''(x)approx 0$ for $yapprox infty$ suggests $y'''(x)approx 0$ there, but by the equation, $y'''(x)approx -0.05$ for $xapproxinfty$.
$endgroup$
– LutzL
Jan 17 at 10:05
$begingroup$
This seems impossible. $y''(x)approx 0$ for $yapprox infty$ suggests $y'''(x)approx 0$ there, but by the equation, $y'''(x)approx -0.05$ for $xapproxinfty$.
$endgroup$
– LutzL
Jan 17 at 10:05
add a comment |
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
$begingroup$
An equilibrium of the demanded type seems improbable due to the constant $-0.05$. If indeed for $xapproxinfty$ the solution were to show $y''(x)approx 0$, one would at the same time have $y'''(x)approx -0.05$, so that the second derivative would have to fall, making the first derivative strictly concave and not constant at $y'(x)approx 1$.
In a more dynamical analysis, one would still expect $y'''(x)approx 0$ and $y(x)/xapprox 1$, so that $0approx xy''(x)+0.1$ which solves, in some even more handwaving fashion, to $y'approx -0.1ln x+c$, $y=-0.1x(ln x-1)+cx+d$. Imposing the infinite boundary condition at some largish $T$, this gives for $x>T$
begin{align}
y''(x)&=-frac{0.1}{x}
y'(x)&=1-0.1ln(x/T), \
y&=1.1x-0.1xln(x/T)+y(T)-1.1T
end{align}
The numerical computations below seem to confirm these estimates, especially the one for $y'$ seems to be an upper boundary. While the second and third derivative tend to zero, the first is continuously falling away from $1$.
Also visible, or rather not visible, is any sign of convergence of the solutions for rising $T$. Neither in the graphs of $y$ in the top plot nor in the initial values for the second derivative in the bottom plot.
def flow(a, t): return spi.odeint(lambda u,t:[u[1],u[2],-0.5*u[0]*u[2]-0.05],[0,0,a],t,atol=1e-4,rtol=1e-8,mxstep=2000);
fig, ax = plt.subplots(3,1)
t_plot = np.arange(0,40.01,0.05);
for T in [5,8,12,15,20,25]:
a = spo.fsolve(lambda x: flow(x,[0,T])[-1,1]-1, 0.1)
y_plot = flow(a,t_plot);
for k in range(3): ax[k].plot(t_plot, y_plot[:,k], label="T=%.1f"%T);
for k in range(3): ax[k].legend(); ax[k].grid();
plt.show();
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Thank you for the answer. Luckily for me I only need the numerical "solution" in the proximity of x = 0 where it fits well with the experimental data.
$endgroup$
– t387
Jan 17 at 11:28
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Runge-Kutta can be used to solve systems of first-order ODE. Any high-order ODE can be rewritten as a system of first-order ODE's as is written in the article. The equation system written in article, together with the initial conditions for $y$, $f$ and $g$, can directly be plugged into any forwards-integrator, for example from Scipy, by providing it the right-hand-side of the first order ODE system. You will get an array of time-changing values of $y, f, g$ as an answer
$endgroup$
add a comment |
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2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
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active
oldest
votes
$begingroup$
An equilibrium of the demanded type seems improbable due to the constant $-0.05$. If indeed for $xapproxinfty$ the solution were to show $y''(x)approx 0$, one would at the same time have $y'''(x)approx -0.05$, so that the second derivative would have to fall, making the first derivative strictly concave and not constant at $y'(x)approx 1$.
In a more dynamical analysis, one would still expect $y'''(x)approx 0$ and $y(x)/xapprox 1$, so that $0approx xy''(x)+0.1$ which solves, in some even more handwaving fashion, to $y'approx -0.1ln x+c$, $y=-0.1x(ln x-1)+cx+d$. Imposing the infinite boundary condition at some largish $T$, this gives for $x>T$
begin{align}
y''(x)&=-frac{0.1}{x}
y'(x)&=1-0.1ln(x/T), \
y&=1.1x-0.1xln(x/T)+y(T)-1.1T
end{align}
The numerical computations below seem to confirm these estimates, especially the one for $y'$ seems to be an upper boundary. While the second and third derivative tend to zero, the first is continuously falling away from $1$.
Also visible, or rather not visible, is any sign of convergence of the solutions for rising $T$. Neither in the graphs of $y$ in the top plot nor in the initial values for the second derivative in the bottom plot.
def flow(a, t): return spi.odeint(lambda u,t:[u[1],u[2],-0.5*u[0]*u[2]-0.05],[0,0,a],t,atol=1e-4,rtol=1e-8,mxstep=2000);
fig, ax = plt.subplots(3,1)
t_plot = np.arange(0,40.01,0.05);
for T in [5,8,12,15,20,25]:
a = spo.fsolve(lambda x: flow(x,[0,T])[-1,1]-1, 0.1)
y_plot = flow(a,t_plot);
for k in range(3): ax[k].plot(t_plot, y_plot[:,k], label="T=%.1f"%T);
for k in range(3): ax[k].legend(); ax[k].grid();
plt.show();
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Thank you for the answer. Luckily for me I only need the numerical "solution" in the proximity of x = 0 where it fits well with the experimental data.
$endgroup$
– t387
Jan 17 at 11:28
add a comment |
$begingroup$
An equilibrium of the demanded type seems improbable due to the constant $-0.05$. If indeed for $xapproxinfty$ the solution were to show $y''(x)approx 0$, one would at the same time have $y'''(x)approx -0.05$, so that the second derivative would have to fall, making the first derivative strictly concave and not constant at $y'(x)approx 1$.
In a more dynamical analysis, one would still expect $y'''(x)approx 0$ and $y(x)/xapprox 1$, so that $0approx xy''(x)+0.1$ which solves, in some even more handwaving fashion, to $y'approx -0.1ln x+c$, $y=-0.1x(ln x-1)+cx+d$. Imposing the infinite boundary condition at some largish $T$, this gives for $x>T$
begin{align}
y''(x)&=-frac{0.1}{x}
y'(x)&=1-0.1ln(x/T), \
y&=1.1x-0.1xln(x/T)+y(T)-1.1T
end{align}
The numerical computations below seem to confirm these estimates, especially the one for $y'$ seems to be an upper boundary. While the second and third derivative tend to zero, the first is continuously falling away from $1$.
Also visible, or rather not visible, is any sign of convergence of the solutions for rising $T$. Neither in the graphs of $y$ in the top plot nor in the initial values for the second derivative in the bottom plot.
def flow(a, t): return spi.odeint(lambda u,t:[u[1],u[2],-0.5*u[0]*u[2]-0.05],[0,0,a],t,atol=1e-4,rtol=1e-8,mxstep=2000);
fig, ax = plt.subplots(3,1)
t_plot = np.arange(0,40.01,0.05);
for T in [5,8,12,15,20,25]:
a = spo.fsolve(lambda x: flow(x,[0,T])[-1,1]-1, 0.1)
y_plot = flow(a,t_plot);
for k in range(3): ax[k].plot(t_plot, y_plot[:,k], label="T=%.1f"%T);
for k in range(3): ax[k].legend(); ax[k].grid();
plt.show();
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Thank you for the answer. Luckily for me I only need the numerical "solution" in the proximity of x = 0 where it fits well with the experimental data.
$endgroup$
– t387
Jan 17 at 11:28
add a comment |
$begingroup$
An equilibrium of the demanded type seems improbable due to the constant $-0.05$. If indeed for $xapproxinfty$ the solution were to show $y''(x)approx 0$, one would at the same time have $y'''(x)approx -0.05$, so that the second derivative would have to fall, making the first derivative strictly concave and not constant at $y'(x)approx 1$.
In a more dynamical analysis, one would still expect $y'''(x)approx 0$ and $y(x)/xapprox 1$, so that $0approx xy''(x)+0.1$ which solves, in some even more handwaving fashion, to $y'approx -0.1ln x+c$, $y=-0.1x(ln x-1)+cx+d$. Imposing the infinite boundary condition at some largish $T$, this gives for $x>T$
begin{align}
y''(x)&=-frac{0.1}{x}
y'(x)&=1-0.1ln(x/T), \
y&=1.1x-0.1xln(x/T)+y(T)-1.1T
end{align}
The numerical computations below seem to confirm these estimates, especially the one for $y'$ seems to be an upper boundary. While the second and third derivative tend to zero, the first is continuously falling away from $1$.
Also visible, or rather not visible, is any sign of convergence of the solutions for rising $T$. Neither in the graphs of $y$ in the top plot nor in the initial values for the second derivative in the bottom plot.
def flow(a, t): return spi.odeint(lambda u,t:[u[1],u[2],-0.5*u[0]*u[2]-0.05],[0,0,a],t,atol=1e-4,rtol=1e-8,mxstep=2000);
fig, ax = plt.subplots(3,1)
t_plot = np.arange(0,40.01,0.05);
for T in [5,8,12,15,20,25]:
a = spo.fsolve(lambda x: flow(x,[0,T])[-1,1]-1, 0.1)
y_plot = flow(a,t_plot);
for k in range(3): ax[k].plot(t_plot, y_plot[:,k], label="T=%.1f"%T);
for k in range(3): ax[k].legend(); ax[k].grid();
plt.show();
$endgroup$
An equilibrium of the demanded type seems improbable due to the constant $-0.05$. If indeed for $xapproxinfty$ the solution were to show $y''(x)approx 0$, one would at the same time have $y'''(x)approx -0.05$, so that the second derivative would have to fall, making the first derivative strictly concave and not constant at $y'(x)approx 1$.
In a more dynamical analysis, one would still expect $y'''(x)approx 0$ and $y(x)/xapprox 1$, so that $0approx xy''(x)+0.1$ which solves, in some even more handwaving fashion, to $y'approx -0.1ln x+c$, $y=-0.1x(ln x-1)+cx+d$. Imposing the infinite boundary condition at some largish $T$, this gives for $x>T$
begin{align}
y''(x)&=-frac{0.1}{x}
y'(x)&=1-0.1ln(x/T), \
y&=1.1x-0.1xln(x/T)+y(T)-1.1T
end{align}
The numerical computations below seem to confirm these estimates, especially the one for $y'$ seems to be an upper boundary. While the second and third derivative tend to zero, the first is continuously falling away from $1$.
Also visible, or rather not visible, is any sign of convergence of the solutions for rising $T$. Neither in the graphs of $y$ in the top plot nor in the initial values for the second derivative in the bottom plot.
def flow(a, t): return spi.odeint(lambda u,t:[u[1],u[2],-0.5*u[0]*u[2]-0.05],[0,0,a],t,atol=1e-4,rtol=1e-8,mxstep=2000);
fig, ax = plt.subplots(3,1)
t_plot = np.arange(0,40.01,0.05);
for T in [5,8,12,15,20,25]:
a = spo.fsolve(lambda x: flow(x,[0,T])[-1,1]-1, 0.1)
y_plot = flow(a,t_plot);
for k in range(3): ax[k].plot(t_plot, y_plot[:,k], label="T=%.1f"%T);
for k in range(3): ax[k].legend(); ax[k].grid();
plt.show();
answered Jan 17 at 11:01
LutzLLutzL
58.1k42054
58.1k42054
$begingroup$
Thank you for the answer. Luckily for me I only need the numerical "solution" in the proximity of x = 0 where it fits well with the experimental data.
$endgroup$
– t387
Jan 17 at 11:28
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Thank you for the answer. Luckily for me I only need the numerical "solution" in the proximity of x = 0 where it fits well with the experimental data.
$endgroup$
– t387
Jan 17 at 11:28
$begingroup$
Thank you for the answer. Luckily for me I only need the numerical "solution" in the proximity of x = 0 where it fits well with the experimental data.
$endgroup$
– t387
Jan 17 at 11:28
$begingroup$
Thank you for the answer. Luckily for me I only need the numerical "solution" in the proximity of x = 0 where it fits well with the experimental data.
$endgroup$
– t387
Jan 17 at 11:28
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Runge-Kutta can be used to solve systems of first-order ODE. Any high-order ODE can be rewritten as a system of first-order ODE's as is written in the article. The equation system written in article, together with the initial conditions for $y$, $f$ and $g$, can directly be plugged into any forwards-integrator, for example from Scipy, by providing it the right-hand-side of the first order ODE system. You will get an array of time-changing values of $y, f, g$ as an answer
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Runge-Kutta can be used to solve systems of first-order ODE. Any high-order ODE can be rewritten as a system of first-order ODE's as is written in the article. The equation system written in article, together with the initial conditions for $y$, $f$ and $g$, can directly be plugged into any forwards-integrator, for example from Scipy, by providing it the right-hand-side of the first order ODE system. You will get an array of time-changing values of $y, f, g$ as an answer
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Runge-Kutta can be used to solve systems of first-order ODE. Any high-order ODE can be rewritten as a system of first-order ODE's as is written in the article. The equation system written in article, together with the initial conditions for $y$, $f$ and $g$, can directly be plugged into any forwards-integrator, for example from Scipy, by providing it the right-hand-side of the first order ODE system. You will get an array of time-changing values of $y, f, g$ as an answer
$endgroup$
Runge-Kutta can be used to solve systems of first-order ODE. Any high-order ODE can be rewritten as a system of first-order ODE's as is written in the article. The equation system written in article, together with the initial conditions for $y$, $f$ and $g$, can directly be plugged into any forwards-integrator, for example from Scipy, by providing it the right-hand-side of the first order ODE system. You will get an array of time-changing values of $y, f, g$ as an answer
answered Jan 17 at 8:54
Aleksejs FominsAleksejs Fomins
490211
490211
add a comment |
add a comment |
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OMG my brain hurts. Can you please typeset all the equations?
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– Aleksejs Fomins
Jan 17 at 8:47
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I am working on that.
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– t387
Jan 17 at 9:51
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This seems impossible. $y''(x)approx 0$ for $yapprox infty$ suggests $y'''(x)approx 0$ there, but by the equation, $y'''(x)approx -0.05$ for $xapproxinfty$.
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– LutzL
Jan 17 at 10:05