How to numerically solve this ODE: $y''' left(xright)=-0.5cdot y left(xright) cdot y''left( x right) -0.05 $












0












$begingroup$


I am trying to numerically solve the following ordinary differential equation that I encountered in one article:
$$ y''' left( x right) =-0.5cdot y left( x right) cdot y'' left( x right) -0.05 $$



This equation has the following boundary conditions:




  • At $ x=0$: $y left( x right) =y' left( x right) =0 $

  • At $ x=infty$: $y' left( x right) =1$, $y'' left( x right) =0 $


In the article it is written that we can rewrite our equation in the following way
begin{align}
y' left( x right) &=f left( x right) \
f' left( x right) &=g left( x right) \
g' left( x right) &=-0.5cdot y left( x right) cdot g left( x right) -0.05
end{align}



with the following boundary conditions




  • At $x=0$: $y left( x right) =f left( x right) =0 $

  • At $x=infty$: $f left( x right) =1$, $g left( x right) =0 $


and that we need to assume g(x=0) as a first guess and solve our equation with the Runge Kutta fourth order method (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Runge%E2%80%93Kutta_methods).



The problem is that I do not know how to do that in my case since 4-th order Runge-Kutta method is normally used to solve first-order ODE.










share|cite|improve this question











$endgroup$








  • 1




    $begingroup$
    OMG my brain hurts. Can you please typeset all the equations?
    $endgroup$
    – Aleksejs Fomins
    Jan 17 at 8:47










  • $begingroup$
    I am working on that.
    $endgroup$
    – t387
    Jan 17 at 9:51










  • $begingroup$
    This seems impossible. $y''(x)approx 0$ for $yapprox infty$ suggests $y'''(x)approx 0$ there, but by the equation, $y'''(x)approx -0.05$ for $xapproxinfty$.
    $endgroup$
    – LutzL
    Jan 17 at 10:05
















0












$begingroup$


I am trying to numerically solve the following ordinary differential equation that I encountered in one article:
$$ y''' left( x right) =-0.5cdot y left( x right) cdot y'' left( x right) -0.05 $$



This equation has the following boundary conditions:




  • At $ x=0$: $y left( x right) =y' left( x right) =0 $

  • At $ x=infty$: $y' left( x right) =1$, $y'' left( x right) =0 $


In the article it is written that we can rewrite our equation in the following way
begin{align}
y' left( x right) &=f left( x right) \
f' left( x right) &=g left( x right) \
g' left( x right) &=-0.5cdot y left( x right) cdot g left( x right) -0.05
end{align}



with the following boundary conditions




  • At $x=0$: $y left( x right) =f left( x right) =0 $

  • At $x=infty$: $f left( x right) =1$, $g left( x right) =0 $


and that we need to assume g(x=0) as a first guess and solve our equation with the Runge Kutta fourth order method (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Runge%E2%80%93Kutta_methods).



The problem is that I do not know how to do that in my case since 4-th order Runge-Kutta method is normally used to solve first-order ODE.










share|cite|improve this question











$endgroup$








  • 1




    $begingroup$
    OMG my brain hurts. Can you please typeset all the equations?
    $endgroup$
    – Aleksejs Fomins
    Jan 17 at 8:47










  • $begingroup$
    I am working on that.
    $endgroup$
    – t387
    Jan 17 at 9:51










  • $begingroup$
    This seems impossible. $y''(x)approx 0$ for $yapprox infty$ suggests $y'''(x)approx 0$ there, but by the equation, $y'''(x)approx -0.05$ for $xapproxinfty$.
    $endgroup$
    – LutzL
    Jan 17 at 10:05














0












0








0





$begingroup$


I am trying to numerically solve the following ordinary differential equation that I encountered in one article:
$$ y''' left( x right) =-0.5cdot y left( x right) cdot y'' left( x right) -0.05 $$



This equation has the following boundary conditions:




  • At $ x=0$: $y left( x right) =y' left( x right) =0 $

  • At $ x=infty$: $y' left( x right) =1$, $y'' left( x right) =0 $


In the article it is written that we can rewrite our equation in the following way
begin{align}
y' left( x right) &=f left( x right) \
f' left( x right) &=g left( x right) \
g' left( x right) &=-0.5cdot y left( x right) cdot g left( x right) -0.05
end{align}



with the following boundary conditions




  • At $x=0$: $y left( x right) =f left( x right) =0 $

  • At $x=infty$: $f left( x right) =1$, $g left( x right) =0 $


and that we need to assume g(x=0) as a first guess and solve our equation with the Runge Kutta fourth order method (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Runge%E2%80%93Kutta_methods).



The problem is that I do not know how to do that in my case since 4-th order Runge-Kutta method is normally used to solve first-order ODE.










share|cite|improve this question











$endgroup$




I am trying to numerically solve the following ordinary differential equation that I encountered in one article:
$$ y''' left( x right) =-0.5cdot y left( x right) cdot y'' left( x right) -0.05 $$



This equation has the following boundary conditions:




  • At $ x=0$: $y left( x right) =y' left( x right) =0 $

  • At $ x=infty$: $y' left( x right) =1$, $y'' left( x right) =0 $


In the article it is written that we can rewrite our equation in the following way
begin{align}
y' left( x right) &=f left( x right) \
f' left( x right) &=g left( x right) \
g' left( x right) &=-0.5cdot y left( x right) cdot g left( x right) -0.05
end{align}



with the following boundary conditions




  • At $x=0$: $y left( x right) =f left( x right) =0 $

  • At $x=infty$: $f left( x right) =1$, $g left( x right) =0 $


and that we need to assume g(x=0) as a first guess and solve our equation with the Runge Kutta fourth order method (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Runge%E2%80%93Kutta_methods).



The problem is that I do not know how to do that in my case since 4-th order Runge-Kutta method is normally used to solve first-order ODE.







numerical-methods






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share|cite|improve this question













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edited Jan 17 at 11:04









LutzL

58.1k42054




58.1k42054










asked Jan 17 at 8:00









t387t387

235




235








  • 1




    $begingroup$
    OMG my brain hurts. Can you please typeset all the equations?
    $endgroup$
    – Aleksejs Fomins
    Jan 17 at 8:47










  • $begingroup$
    I am working on that.
    $endgroup$
    – t387
    Jan 17 at 9:51










  • $begingroup$
    This seems impossible. $y''(x)approx 0$ for $yapprox infty$ suggests $y'''(x)approx 0$ there, but by the equation, $y'''(x)approx -0.05$ for $xapproxinfty$.
    $endgroup$
    – LutzL
    Jan 17 at 10:05














  • 1




    $begingroup$
    OMG my brain hurts. Can you please typeset all the equations?
    $endgroup$
    – Aleksejs Fomins
    Jan 17 at 8:47










  • $begingroup$
    I am working on that.
    $endgroup$
    – t387
    Jan 17 at 9:51










  • $begingroup$
    This seems impossible. $y''(x)approx 0$ for $yapprox infty$ suggests $y'''(x)approx 0$ there, but by the equation, $y'''(x)approx -0.05$ for $xapproxinfty$.
    $endgroup$
    – LutzL
    Jan 17 at 10:05








1




1




$begingroup$
OMG my brain hurts. Can you please typeset all the equations?
$endgroup$
– Aleksejs Fomins
Jan 17 at 8:47




$begingroup$
OMG my brain hurts. Can you please typeset all the equations?
$endgroup$
– Aleksejs Fomins
Jan 17 at 8:47












$begingroup$
I am working on that.
$endgroup$
– t387
Jan 17 at 9:51




$begingroup$
I am working on that.
$endgroup$
– t387
Jan 17 at 9:51












$begingroup$
This seems impossible. $y''(x)approx 0$ for $yapprox infty$ suggests $y'''(x)approx 0$ there, but by the equation, $y'''(x)approx -0.05$ for $xapproxinfty$.
$endgroup$
– LutzL
Jan 17 at 10:05




$begingroup$
This seems impossible. $y''(x)approx 0$ for $yapprox infty$ suggests $y'''(x)approx 0$ there, but by the equation, $y'''(x)approx -0.05$ for $xapproxinfty$.
$endgroup$
– LutzL
Jan 17 at 10:05










2 Answers
2






active

oldest

votes


















1












$begingroup$

An equilibrium of the demanded type seems improbable due to the constant $-0.05$. If indeed for $xapproxinfty$ the solution were to show $y''(x)approx 0$, one would at the same time have $y'''(x)approx -0.05$, so that the second derivative would have to fall, making the first derivative strictly concave and not constant at $y'(x)approx 1$.



In a more dynamical analysis, one would still expect $y'''(x)approx 0$ and $y(x)/xapprox 1$, so that $0approx xy''(x)+0.1$ which solves, in some even more handwaving fashion, to $y'approx -0.1ln x+c$, $y=-0.1x(ln x-1)+cx+d$. Imposing the infinite boundary condition at some largish $T$, this gives for $x>T$
begin{align}
y''(x)&=-frac{0.1}{x}
y'(x)&=1-0.1ln(x/T), \
y&=1.1x-0.1xln(x/T)+y(T)-1.1T
end{align}



The numerical computations below seem to confirm these estimates, especially the one for $y'$ seems to be an upper boundary. While the second and third derivative tend to zero, the first is continuously falling away from $1$.



Also visible, or rather not visible, is any sign of convergence of the solutions for rising $T$. Neither in the graphs of $y$ in the top plot nor in the initial values for the second derivative in the bottom plot.





def flow(a, t): return spi.odeint(lambda u,t:[u[1],u[2],-0.5*u[0]*u[2]-0.05],[0,0,a],t,atol=1e-4,rtol=1e-8,mxstep=2000);

fig, ax = plt.subplots(3,1)
t_plot = np.arange(0,40.01,0.05);
for T in [5,8,12,15,20,25]:
a = spo.fsolve(lambda x: flow(x,[0,T])[-1,1]-1, 0.1)
y_plot = flow(a,t_plot);
for k in range(3): ax[k].plot(t_plot, y_plot[:,k], label="T=%.1f"%T);
for k in range(3): ax[k].legend(); ax[k].grid();
plt.show();


plot of solutions






share|cite|improve this answer









$endgroup$













  • $begingroup$
    Thank you for the answer. Luckily for me I only need the numerical "solution" in the proximity of x = 0 where it fits well with the experimental data.
    $endgroup$
    – t387
    Jan 17 at 11:28



















2












$begingroup$

Runge-Kutta can be used to solve systems of first-order ODE. Any high-order ODE can be rewritten as a system of first-order ODE's as is written in the article. The equation system written in article, together with the initial conditions for $y$, $f$ and $g$, can directly be plugged into any forwards-integrator, for example from Scipy, by providing it the right-hand-side of the first order ODE system. You will get an array of time-changing values of $y, f, g$ as an answer






share|cite|improve this answer









$endgroup$













    Your Answer





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    2 Answers
    2






    active

    oldest

    votes








    2 Answers
    2






    active

    oldest

    votes









    active

    oldest

    votes






    active

    oldest

    votes









    1












    $begingroup$

    An equilibrium of the demanded type seems improbable due to the constant $-0.05$. If indeed for $xapproxinfty$ the solution were to show $y''(x)approx 0$, one would at the same time have $y'''(x)approx -0.05$, so that the second derivative would have to fall, making the first derivative strictly concave and not constant at $y'(x)approx 1$.



    In a more dynamical analysis, one would still expect $y'''(x)approx 0$ and $y(x)/xapprox 1$, so that $0approx xy''(x)+0.1$ which solves, in some even more handwaving fashion, to $y'approx -0.1ln x+c$, $y=-0.1x(ln x-1)+cx+d$. Imposing the infinite boundary condition at some largish $T$, this gives for $x>T$
    begin{align}
    y''(x)&=-frac{0.1}{x}
    y'(x)&=1-0.1ln(x/T), \
    y&=1.1x-0.1xln(x/T)+y(T)-1.1T
    end{align}



    The numerical computations below seem to confirm these estimates, especially the one for $y'$ seems to be an upper boundary. While the second and third derivative tend to zero, the first is continuously falling away from $1$.



    Also visible, or rather not visible, is any sign of convergence of the solutions for rising $T$. Neither in the graphs of $y$ in the top plot nor in the initial values for the second derivative in the bottom plot.





    def flow(a, t): return spi.odeint(lambda u,t:[u[1],u[2],-0.5*u[0]*u[2]-0.05],[0,0,a],t,atol=1e-4,rtol=1e-8,mxstep=2000);

    fig, ax = plt.subplots(3,1)
    t_plot = np.arange(0,40.01,0.05);
    for T in [5,8,12,15,20,25]:
    a = spo.fsolve(lambda x: flow(x,[0,T])[-1,1]-1, 0.1)
    y_plot = flow(a,t_plot);
    for k in range(3): ax[k].plot(t_plot, y_plot[:,k], label="T=%.1f"%T);
    for k in range(3): ax[k].legend(); ax[k].grid();
    plt.show();


    plot of solutions






    share|cite|improve this answer









    $endgroup$













    • $begingroup$
      Thank you for the answer. Luckily for me I only need the numerical "solution" in the proximity of x = 0 where it fits well with the experimental data.
      $endgroup$
      – t387
      Jan 17 at 11:28
















    1












    $begingroup$

    An equilibrium of the demanded type seems improbable due to the constant $-0.05$. If indeed for $xapproxinfty$ the solution were to show $y''(x)approx 0$, one would at the same time have $y'''(x)approx -0.05$, so that the second derivative would have to fall, making the first derivative strictly concave and not constant at $y'(x)approx 1$.



    In a more dynamical analysis, one would still expect $y'''(x)approx 0$ and $y(x)/xapprox 1$, so that $0approx xy''(x)+0.1$ which solves, in some even more handwaving fashion, to $y'approx -0.1ln x+c$, $y=-0.1x(ln x-1)+cx+d$. Imposing the infinite boundary condition at some largish $T$, this gives for $x>T$
    begin{align}
    y''(x)&=-frac{0.1}{x}
    y'(x)&=1-0.1ln(x/T), \
    y&=1.1x-0.1xln(x/T)+y(T)-1.1T
    end{align}



    The numerical computations below seem to confirm these estimates, especially the one for $y'$ seems to be an upper boundary. While the second and third derivative tend to zero, the first is continuously falling away from $1$.



    Also visible, or rather not visible, is any sign of convergence of the solutions for rising $T$. Neither in the graphs of $y$ in the top plot nor in the initial values for the second derivative in the bottom plot.





    def flow(a, t): return spi.odeint(lambda u,t:[u[1],u[2],-0.5*u[0]*u[2]-0.05],[0,0,a],t,atol=1e-4,rtol=1e-8,mxstep=2000);

    fig, ax = plt.subplots(3,1)
    t_plot = np.arange(0,40.01,0.05);
    for T in [5,8,12,15,20,25]:
    a = spo.fsolve(lambda x: flow(x,[0,T])[-1,1]-1, 0.1)
    y_plot = flow(a,t_plot);
    for k in range(3): ax[k].plot(t_plot, y_plot[:,k], label="T=%.1f"%T);
    for k in range(3): ax[k].legend(); ax[k].grid();
    plt.show();


    plot of solutions






    share|cite|improve this answer









    $endgroup$













    • $begingroup$
      Thank you for the answer. Luckily for me I only need the numerical "solution" in the proximity of x = 0 where it fits well with the experimental data.
      $endgroup$
      – t387
      Jan 17 at 11:28














    1












    1








    1





    $begingroup$

    An equilibrium of the demanded type seems improbable due to the constant $-0.05$. If indeed for $xapproxinfty$ the solution were to show $y''(x)approx 0$, one would at the same time have $y'''(x)approx -0.05$, so that the second derivative would have to fall, making the first derivative strictly concave and not constant at $y'(x)approx 1$.



    In a more dynamical analysis, one would still expect $y'''(x)approx 0$ and $y(x)/xapprox 1$, so that $0approx xy''(x)+0.1$ which solves, in some even more handwaving fashion, to $y'approx -0.1ln x+c$, $y=-0.1x(ln x-1)+cx+d$. Imposing the infinite boundary condition at some largish $T$, this gives for $x>T$
    begin{align}
    y''(x)&=-frac{0.1}{x}
    y'(x)&=1-0.1ln(x/T), \
    y&=1.1x-0.1xln(x/T)+y(T)-1.1T
    end{align}



    The numerical computations below seem to confirm these estimates, especially the one for $y'$ seems to be an upper boundary. While the second and third derivative tend to zero, the first is continuously falling away from $1$.



    Also visible, or rather not visible, is any sign of convergence of the solutions for rising $T$. Neither in the graphs of $y$ in the top plot nor in the initial values for the second derivative in the bottom plot.





    def flow(a, t): return spi.odeint(lambda u,t:[u[1],u[2],-0.5*u[0]*u[2]-0.05],[0,0,a],t,atol=1e-4,rtol=1e-8,mxstep=2000);

    fig, ax = plt.subplots(3,1)
    t_plot = np.arange(0,40.01,0.05);
    for T in [5,8,12,15,20,25]:
    a = spo.fsolve(lambda x: flow(x,[0,T])[-1,1]-1, 0.1)
    y_plot = flow(a,t_plot);
    for k in range(3): ax[k].plot(t_plot, y_plot[:,k], label="T=%.1f"%T);
    for k in range(3): ax[k].legend(); ax[k].grid();
    plt.show();


    plot of solutions






    share|cite|improve this answer









    $endgroup$



    An equilibrium of the demanded type seems improbable due to the constant $-0.05$. If indeed for $xapproxinfty$ the solution were to show $y''(x)approx 0$, one would at the same time have $y'''(x)approx -0.05$, so that the second derivative would have to fall, making the first derivative strictly concave and not constant at $y'(x)approx 1$.



    In a more dynamical analysis, one would still expect $y'''(x)approx 0$ and $y(x)/xapprox 1$, so that $0approx xy''(x)+0.1$ which solves, in some even more handwaving fashion, to $y'approx -0.1ln x+c$, $y=-0.1x(ln x-1)+cx+d$. Imposing the infinite boundary condition at some largish $T$, this gives for $x>T$
    begin{align}
    y''(x)&=-frac{0.1}{x}
    y'(x)&=1-0.1ln(x/T), \
    y&=1.1x-0.1xln(x/T)+y(T)-1.1T
    end{align}



    The numerical computations below seem to confirm these estimates, especially the one for $y'$ seems to be an upper boundary. While the second and third derivative tend to zero, the first is continuously falling away from $1$.



    Also visible, or rather not visible, is any sign of convergence of the solutions for rising $T$. Neither in the graphs of $y$ in the top plot nor in the initial values for the second derivative in the bottom plot.





    def flow(a, t): return spi.odeint(lambda u,t:[u[1],u[2],-0.5*u[0]*u[2]-0.05],[0,0,a],t,atol=1e-4,rtol=1e-8,mxstep=2000);

    fig, ax = plt.subplots(3,1)
    t_plot = np.arange(0,40.01,0.05);
    for T in [5,8,12,15,20,25]:
    a = spo.fsolve(lambda x: flow(x,[0,T])[-1,1]-1, 0.1)
    y_plot = flow(a,t_plot);
    for k in range(3): ax[k].plot(t_plot, y_plot[:,k], label="T=%.1f"%T);
    for k in range(3): ax[k].legend(); ax[k].grid();
    plt.show();


    plot of solutions







    share|cite|improve this answer












    share|cite|improve this answer



    share|cite|improve this answer










    answered Jan 17 at 11:01









    LutzLLutzL

    58.1k42054




    58.1k42054












    • $begingroup$
      Thank you for the answer. Luckily for me I only need the numerical "solution" in the proximity of x = 0 where it fits well with the experimental data.
      $endgroup$
      – t387
      Jan 17 at 11:28


















    • $begingroup$
      Thank you for the answer. Luckily for me I only need the numerical "solution" in the proximity of x = 0 where it fits well with the experimental data.
      $endgroup$
      – t387
      Jan 17 at 11:28
















    $begingroup$
    Thank you for the answer. Luckily for me I only need the numerical "solution" in the proximity of x = 0 where it fits well with the experimental data.
    $endgroup$
    – t387
    Jan 17 at 11:28




    $begingroup$
    Thank you for the answer. Luckily for me I only need the numerical "solution" in the proximity of x = 0 where it fits well with the experimental data.
    $endgroup$
    – t387
    Jan 17 at 11:28











    2












    $begingroup$

    Runge-Kutta can be used to solve systems of first-order ODE. Any high-order ODE can be rewritten as a system of first-order ODE's as is written in the article. The equation system written in article, together with the initial conditions for $y$, $f$ and $g$, can directly be plugged into any forwards-integrator, for example from Scipy, by providing it the right-hand-side of the first order ODE system. You will get an array of time-changing values of $y, f, g$ as an answer






    share|cite|improve this answer









    $endgroup$


















      2












      $begingroup$

      Runge-Kutta can be used to solve systems of first-order ODE. Any high-order ODE can be rewritten as a system of first-order ODE's as is written in the article. The equation system written in article, together with the initial conditions for $y$, $f$ and $g$, can directly be plugged into any forwards-integrator, for example from Scipy, by providing it the right-hand-side of the first order ODE system. You will get an array of time-changing values of $y, f, g$ as an answer






      share|cite|improve this answer









      $endgroup$
















        2












        2








        2





        $begingroup$

        Runge-Kutta can be used to solve systems of first-order ODE. Any high-order ODE can be rewritten as a system of first-order ODE's as is written in the article. The equation system written in article, together with the initial conditions for $y$, $f$ and $g$, can directly be plugged into any forwards-integrator, for example from Scipy, by providing it the right-hand-side of the first order ODE system. You will get an array of time-changing values of $y, f, g$ as an answer






        share|cite|improve this answer









        $endgroup$



        Runge-Kutta can be used to solve systems of first-order ODE. Any high-order ODE can be rewritten as a system of first-order ODE's as is written in the article. The equation system written in article, together with the initial conditions for $y$, $f$ and $g$, can directly be plugged into any forwards-integrator, for example from Scipy, by providing it the right-hand-side of the first order ODE system. You will get an array of time-changing values of $y, f, g$ as an answer







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        answered Jan 17 at 8:54









        Aleksejs FominsAleksejs Fomins

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