What are some applications of subdirect product?












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$begingroup$


I have studied direct products. I know a few applications of direct products, like group isomorphism, etc. What are some applications of sub-direct product of groups?










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$endgroup$












  • $begingroup$
    Exercise: a group is isomorphic to a (nontrivial) subdirect product of two groups iff it has two nontrivial normal subgroups with trivial intersection. (By nontrivial subdirect, I mean none of the two projections is injective on the subgroup.)
    $endgroup$
    – YCor
    Jan 24 at 3:46
















2












$begingroup$


I have studied direct products. I know a few applications of direct products, like group isomorphism, etc. What are some applications of sub-direct product of groups?










share|cite|improve this question











$endgroup$












  • $begingroup$
    Exercise: a group is isomorphic to a (nontrivial) subdirect product of two groups iff it has two nontrivial normal subgroups with trivial intersection. (By nontrivial subdirect, I mean none of the two projections is injective on the subgroup.)
    $endgroup$
    – YCor
    Jan 24 at 3:46














2












2








2


1



$begingroup$


I have studied direct products. I know a few applications of direct products, like group isomorphism, etc. What are some applications of sub-direct product of groups?










share|cite|improve this question











$endgroup$




I have studied direct products. I know a few applications of direct products, like group isomorphism, etc. What are some applications of sub-direct product of groups?







group-theory applications direct-product






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share|cite|improve this question













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edited Jan 22 at 17:46









Shaun

9,300113684




9,300113684










asked Jan 22 at 8:49









I_wil_break_wallI_wil_break_wall

805




805












  • $begingroup$
    Exercise: a group is isomorphic to a (nontrivial) subdirect product of two groups iff it has two nontrivial normal subgroups with trivial intersection. (By nontrivial subdirect, I mean none of the two projections is injective on the subgroup.)
    $endgroup$
    – YCor
    Jan 24 at 3:46


















  • $begingroup$
    Exercise: a group is isomorphic to a (nontrivial) subdirect product of two groups iff it has two nontrivial normal subgroups with trivial intersection. (By nontrivial subdirect, I mean none of the two projections is injective on the subgroup.)
    $endgroup$
    – YCor
    Jan 24 at 3:46
















$begingroup$
Exercise: a group is isomorphic to a (nontrivial) subdirect product of two groups iff it has two nontrivial normal subgroups with trivial intersection. (By nontrivial subdirect, I mean none of the two projections is injective on the subgroup.)
$endgroup$
– YCor
Jan 24 at 3:46




$begingroup$
Exercise: a group is isomorphic to a (nontrivial) subdirect product of two groups iff it has two nontrivial normal subgroups with trivial intersection. (By nontrivial subdirect, I mean none of the two projections is injective on the subgroup.)
$endgroup$
– YCor
Jan 24 at 3:46










3 Answers
3






active

oldest

votes


















2












$begingroup$

Subdirect products arise naturally as intransitive subgroups of $S_n$, where they are subdirect products of the induced actions of the group on its orbits. Similarly for completely reducible linear groups.






share|cite|improve this answer









$endgroup$













  • $begingroup$
    I was interested in the application in computer science.
    $endgroup$
    – I_wil_break_wall
    Jan 23 at 5:41










  • $begingroup$
    Also, centralizers in the alternating group (e.g., of a 3-cycle) are usually naturally subdirect (fibre) products.
    $endgroup$
    – YCor
    Jan 24 at 3:47



















2












$begingroup$

A powerful tool in group theory is something called the fibre product. This is a special type of subdirect product of the group with itself.




Associated to a short exact sequence $1rightarrow Nrightarrow Hrightarrow Qrightarrow 1$, where $pi(H)=Q$ is the natural map, is the fibre product $Psubset Htimes H$,
$$
P:={(h_1, h_2)mid pi(h_1)=pi(h_2)}.
$$




Clearly the diagonal component $Delta:={(h, h)mid hin H}$ is contained in $P$, so $P$ is a subdirect product.



The first application of fibre products which is know of is that there exist finitely generated subgroups of $F_2times F_2$ which have insoluble membership problem: Firstly, let $Q$ be finitely presented and have insoluble word problem, then $P$ has insoluble membership problem. To see that $P$ is finitely generated, since $Q$ is finitely presented we have that $N subset H$ is finitely generated as a normal subgroup, and then to obtain a finite generating set for $P$ one chooses a finite normal generating set for $Ntimes{1}$ and then appends a generating set for the diagonal $Deltacong H=F_2$.



A surprisingly powerful result, called the $1$-$2$-$3$ theorem, gives conditions on the fibre products to be finitely presentable, see: G. Baumslag, M.R. Bridson, C.F. Miller III, H. Short, Fibre products, non-positive curvature, and decision problems, Comm. Math. Helv. 75 (2000), 457–477.



A super-powerful application of fibre products is the following (the application is the main result of a paper in the Annals of Mathematics, one of the top journals - undisputed top 4 journal, disputed no. 1). If $Gamma$ is a group then $widehat{Gamma}$ denotes its profinite completion.



Question (Grothendieck, 1970). Let $Gamma_1$ and $Gamma_2$ be finitely presented, residually finite groups and let $u :Gamma_1rightarrow Gamma_2$ be a homomorphism such that $widehat{u} :widehat{Gamma}_1rightarrow widehat{Gamma}_2$ is an isomorphism of profinite groups. Does it follow that $u$ is an isomorphism from $Gamma_1$ onto $Gamma_2$?



Theorem (Bridson, Grunewald, 2004, Ann. Math., link). There exists a short exact sequence $1rightarrow NrightarrowGammarightarrow Qrightarrow 1$ where $Gamma$ has a whole host of nice properties, and where $P$ and $Gamma$ are a counter-example to Grothendieck's question: $P$ and $Gamma$ are finitely presentable, with $widehat{P}cong widehat{Gamma}$ but $Pnotcong Gamma$.






share|cite|improve this answer











$endgroup$













  • $begingroup$
    @Shaun regarding your numerals edit, you might be interested in this tex.SE question.
    $endgroup$
    – user1729
    Jan 22 at 19:10










  • $begingroup$
    Thank you, @user1729; that'll save me some time in future! It's nice to know a useful convention :)
    $endgroup$
    – Shaun
    Jan 22 at 19:45










  • $begingroup$
    "A powerful tool in group theory, developed over the last 20 or so years but has a longer history". This sounds weird. I'd certainly not say that the tool of fibre products was developed in this period. Also if I prove a result about direct products I'm not developing the tool of direct product.
    $endgroup$
    – YCor
    Jan 24 at 3:43












  • $begingroup$
    @YCor I'll remove the statement with the dates. However, I can only think of three results pre-Baumslag, Bridson, Miller, Short which use fibre products (but I think they invented the name?). So do you think it would be correct to say that they "came to the fore" in the past 20 years?
    $endgroup$
    – user1729
    Jan 24 at 9:41



















0












$begingroup$

Typically, when you know that an object is a subdirect product of other objects, you know that it inherits all properties that are passed from products of those objects to their subsets. For example, a subdirect product of abelian groups must be abelian (and the same for any other group identity).






share|cite|improve this answer











$endgroup$









  • 1




    $begingroup$
    This seems to just be a property of a "subgroup of the direct product", which is a weaker property than being a subdirect product.
    $endgroup$
    – Ted
    Jan 22 at 17:07











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3 Answers
3






active

oldest

votes








3 Answers
3






active

oldest

votes









active

oldest

votes






active

oldest

votes









2












$begingroup$

Subdirect products arise naturally as intransitive subgroups of $S_n$, where they are subdirect products of the induced actions of the group on its orbits. Similarly for completely reducible linear groups.






share|cite|improve this answer









$endgroup$













  • $begingroup$
    I was interested in the application in computer science.
    $endgroup$
    – I_wil_break_wall
    Jan 23 at 5:41










  • $begingroup$
    Also, centralizers in the alternating group (e.g., of a 3-cycle) are usually naturally subdirect (fibre) products.
    $endgroup$
    – YCor
    Jan 24 at 3:47
















2












$begingroup$

Subdirect products arise naturally as intransitive subgroups of $S_n$, where they are subdirect products of the induced actions of the group on its orbits. Similarly for completely reducible linear groups.






share|cite|improve this answer









$endgroup$













  • $begingroup$
    I was interested in the application in computer science.
    $endgroup$
    – I_wil_break_wall
    Jan 23 at 5:41










  • $begingroup$
    Also, centralizers in the alternating group (e.g., of a 3-cycle) are usually naturally subdirect (fibre) products.
    $endgroup$
    – YCor
    Jan 24 at 3:47














2












2








2





$begingroup$

Subdirect products arise naturally as intransitive subgroups of $S_n$, where they are subdirect products of the induced actions of the group on its orbits. Similarly for completely reducible linear groups.






share|cite|improve this answer









$endgroup$



Subdirect products arise naturally as intransitive subgroups of $S_n$, where they are subdirect products of the induced actions of the group on its orbits. Similarly for completely reducible linear groups.







share|cite|improve this answer












share|cite|improve this answer



share|cite|improve this answer










answered Jan 22 at 10:04









Derek HoltDerek Holt

53.8k53571




53.8k53571












  • $begingroup$
    I was interested in the application in computer science.
    $endgroup$
    – I_wil_break_wall
    Jan 23 at 5:41










  • $begingroup$
    Also, centralizers in the alternating group (e.g., of a 3-cycle) are usually naturally subdirect (fibre) products.
    $endgroup$
    – YCor
    Jan 24 at 3:47


















  • $begingroup$
    I was interested in the application in computer science.
    $endgroup$
    – I_wil_break_wall
    Jan 23 at 5:41










  • $begingroup$
    Also, centralizers in the alternating group (e.g., of a 3-cycle) are usually naturally subdirect (fibre) products.
    $endgroup$
    – YCor
    Jan 24 at 3:47
















$begingroup$
I was interested in the application in computer science.
$endgroup$
– I_wil_break_wall
Jan 23 at 5:41




$begingroup$
I was interested in the application in computer science.
$endgroup$
– I_wil_break_wall
Jan 23 at 5:41












$begingroup$
Also, centralizers in the alternating group (e.g., of a 3-cycle) are usually naturally subdirect (fibre) products.
$endgroup$
– YCor
Jan 24 at 3:47




$begingroup$
Also, centralizers in the alternating group (e.g., of a 3-cycle) are usually naturally subdirect (fibre) products.
$endgroup$
– YCor
Jan 24 at 3:47











2












$begingroup$

A powerful tool in group theory is something called the fibre product. This is a special type of subdirect product of the group with itself.




Associated to a short exact sequence $1rightarrow Nrightarrow Hrightarrow Qrightarrow 1$, where $pi(H)=Q$ is the natural map, is the fibre product $Psubset Htimes H$,
$$
P:={(h_1, h_2)mid pi(h_1)=pi(h_2)}.
$$




Clearly the diagonal component $Delta:={(h, h)mid hin H}$ is contained in $P$, so $P$ is a subdirect product.



The first application of fibre products which is know of is that there exist finitely generated subgroups of $F_2times F_2$ which have insoluble membership problem: Firstly, let $Q$ be finitely presented and have insoluble word problem, then $P$ has insoluble membership problem. To see that $P$ is finitely generated, since $Q$ is finitely presented we have that $N subset H$ is finitely generated as a normal subgroup, and then to obtain a finite generating set for $P$ one chooses a finite normal generating set for $Ntimes{1}$ and then appends a generating set for the diagonal $Deltacong H=F_2$.



A surprisingly powerful result, called the $1$-$2$-$3$ theorem, gives conditions on the fibre products to be finitely presentable, see: G. Baumslag, M.R. Bridson, C.F. Miller III, H. Short, Fibre products, non-positive curvature, and decision problems, Comm. Math. Helv. 75 (2000), 457–477.



A super-powerful application of fibre products is the following (the application is the main result of a paper in the Annals of Mathematics, one of the top journals - undisputed top 4 journal, disputed no. 1). If $Gamma$ is a group then $widehat{Gamma}$ denotes its profinite completion.



Question (Grothendieck, 1970). Let $Gamma_1$ and $Gamma_2$ be finitely presented, residually finite groups and let $u :Gamma_1rightarrow Gamma_2$ be a homomorphism such that $widehat{u} :widehat{Gamma}_1rightarrow widehat{Gamma}_2$ is an isomorphism of profinite groups. Does it follow that $u$ is an isomorphism from $Gamma_1$ onto $Gamma_2$?



Theorem (Bridson, Grunewald, 2004, Ann. Math., link). There exists a short exact sequence $1rightarrow NrightarrowGammarightarrow Qrightarrow 1$ where $Gamma$ has a whole host of nice properties, and where $P$ and $Gamma$ are a counter-example to Grothendieck's question: $P$ and $Gamma$ are finitely presentable, with $widehat{P}cong widehat{Gamma}$ but $Pnotcong Gamma$.






share|cite|improve this answer











$endgroup$













  • $begingroup$
    @Shaun regarding your numerals edit, you might be interested in this tex.SE question.
    $endgroup$
    – user1729
    Jan 22 at 19:10










  • $begingroup$
    Thank you, @user1729; that'll save me some time in future! It's nice to know a useful convention :)
    $endgroup$
    – Shaun
    Jan 22 at 19:45










  • $begingroup$
    "A powerful tool in group theory, developed over the last 20 or so years but has a longer history". This sounds weird. I'd certainly not say that the tool of fibre products was developed in this period. Also if I prove a result about direct products I'm not developing the tool of direct product.
    $endgroup$
    – YCor
    Jan 24 at 3:43












  • $begingroup$
    @YCor I'll remove the statement with the dates. However, I can only think of three results pre-Baumslag, Bridson, Miller, Short which use fibre products (but I think they invented the name?). So do you think it would be correct to say that they "came to the fore" in the past 20 years?
    $endgroup$
    – user1729
    Jan 24 at 9:41
















2












$begingroup$

A powerful tool in group theory is something called the fibre product. This is a special type of subdirect product of the group with itself.




Associated to a short exact sequence $1rightarrow Nrightarrow Hrightarrow Qrightarrow 1$, where $pi(H)=Q$ is the natural map, is the fibre product $Psubset Htimes H$,
$$
P:={(h_1, h_2)mid pi(h_1)=pi(h_2)}.
$$




Clearly the diagonal component $Delta:={(h, h)mid hin H}$ is contained in $P$, so $P$ is a subdirect product.



The first application of fibre products which is know of is that there exist finitely generated subgroups of $F_2times F_2$ which have insoluble membership problem: Firstly, let $Q$ be finitely presented and have insoluble word problem, then $P$ has insoluble membership problem. To see that $P$ is finitely generated, since $Q$ is finitely presented we have that $N subset H$ is finitely generated as a normal subgroup, and then to obtain a finite generating set for $P$ one chooses a finite normal generating set for $Ntimes{1}$ and then appends a generating set for the diagonal $Deltacong H=F_2$.



A surprisingly powerful result, called the $1$-$2$-$3$ theorem, gives conditions on the fibre products to be finitely presentable, see: G. Baumslag, M.R. Bridson, C.F. Miller III, H. Short, Fibre products, non-positive curvature, and decision problems, Comm. Math. Helv. 75 (2000), 457–477.



A super-powerful application of fibre products is the following (the application is the main result of a paper in the Annals of Mathematics, one of the top journals - undisputed top 4 journal, disputed no. 1). If $Gamma$ is a group then $widehat{Gamma}$ denotes its profinite completion.



Question (Grothendieck, 1970). Let $Gamma_1$ and $Gamma_2$ be finitely presented, residually finite groups and let $u :Gamma_1rightarrow Gamma_2$ be a homomorphism such that $widehat{u} :widehat{Gamma}_1rightarrow widehat{Gamma}_2$ is an isomorphism of profinite groups. Does it follow that $u$ is an isomorphism from $Gamma_1$ onto $Gamma_2$?



Theorem (Bridson, Grunewald, 2004, Ann. Math., link). There exists a short exact sequence $1rightarrow NrightarrowGammarightarrow Qrightarrow 1$ where $Gamma$ has a whole host of nice properties, and where $P$ and $Gamma$ are a counter-example to Grothendieck's question: $P$ and $Gamma$ are finitely presentable, with $widehat{P}cong widehat{Gamma}$ but $Pnotcong Gamma$.






share|cite|improve this answer











$endgroup$













  • $begingroup$
    @Shaun regarding your numerals edit, you might be interested in this tex.SE question.
    $endgroup$
    – user1729
    Jan 22 at 19:10










  • $begingroup$
    Thank you, @user1729; that'll save me some time in future! It's nice to know a useful convention :)
    $endgroup$
    – Shaun
    Jan 22 at 19:45










  • $begingroup$
    "A powerful tool in group theory, developed over the last 20 or so years but has a longer history". This sounds weird. I'd certainly not say that the tool of fibre products was developed in this period. Also if I prove a result about direct products I'm not developing the tool of direct product.
    $endgroup$
    – YCor
    Jan 24 at 3:43












  • $begingroup$
    @YCor I'll remove the statement with the dates. However, I can only think of three results pre-Baumslag, Bridson, Miller, Short which use fibre products (but I think they invented the name?). So do you think it would be correct to say that they "came to the fore" in the past 20 years?
    $endgroup$
    – user1729
    Jan 24 at 9:41














2












2








2





$begingroup$

A powerful tool in group theory is something called the fibre product. This is a special type of subdirect product of the group with itself.




Associated to a short exact sequence $1rightarrow Nrightarrow Hrightarrow Qrightarrow 1$, where $pi(H)=Q$ is the natural map, is the fibre product $Psubset Htimes H$,
$$
P:={(h_1, h_2)mid pi(h_1)=pi(h_2)}.
$$




Clearly the diagonal component $Delta:={(h, h)mid hin H}$ is contained in $P$, so $P$ is a subdirect product.



The first application of fibre products which is know of is that there exist finitely generated subgroups of $F_2times F_2$ which have insoluble membership problem: Firstly, let $Q$ be finitely presented and have insoluble word problem, then $P$ has insoluble membership problem. To see that $P$ is finitely generated, since $Q$ is finitely presented we have that $N subset H$ is finitely generated as a normal subgroup, and then to obtain a finite generating set for $P$ one chooses a finite normal generating set for $Ntimes{1}$ and then appends a generating set for the diagonal $Deltacong H=F_2$.



A surprisingly powerful result, called the $1$-$2$-$3$ theorem, gives conditions on the fibre products to be finitely presentable, see: G. Baumslag, M.R. Bridson, C.F. Miller III, H. Short, Fibre products, non-positive curvature, and decision problems, Comm. Math. Helv. 75 (2000), 457–477.



A super-powerful application of fibre products is the following (the application is the main result of a paper in the Annals of Mathematics, one of the top journals - undisputed top 4 journal, disputed no. 1). If $Gamma$ is a group then $widehat{Gamma}$ denotes its profinite completion.



Question (Grothendieck, 1970). Let $Gamma_1$ and $Gamma_2$ be finitely presented, residually finite groups and let $u :Gamma_1rightarrow Gamma_2$ be a homomorphism such that $widehat{u} :widehat{Gamma}_1rightarrow widehat{Gamma}_2$ is an isomorphism of profinite groups. Does it follow that $u$ is an isomorphism from $Gamma_1$ onto $Gamma_2$?



Theorem (Bridson, Grunewald, 2004, Ann. Math., link). There exists a short exact sequence $1rightarrow NrightarrowGammarightarrow Qrightarrow 1$ where $Gamma$ has a whole host of nice properties, and where $P$ and $Gamma$ are a counter-example to Grothendieck's question: $P$ and $Gamma$ are finitely presentable, with $widehat{P}cong widehat{Gamma}$ but $Pnotcong Gamma$.






share|cite|improve this answer











$endgroup$



A powerful tool in group theory is something called the fibre product. This is a special type of subdirect product of the group with itself.




Associated to a short exact sequence $1rightarrow Nrightarrow Hrightarrow Qrightarrow 1$, where $pi(H)=Q$ is the natural map, is the fibre product $Psubset Htimes H$,
$$
P:={(h_1, h_2)mid pi(h_1)=pi(h_2)}.
$$




Clearly the diagonal component $Delta:={(h, h)mid hin H}$ is contained in $P$, so $P$ is a subdirect product.



The first application of fibre products which is know of is that there exist finitely generated subgroups of $F_2times F_2$ which have insoluble membership problem: Firstly, let $Q$ be finitely presented and have insoluble word problem, then $P$ has insoluble membership problem. To see that $P$ is finitely generated, since $Q$ is finitely presented we have that $N subset H$ is finitely generated as a normal subgroup, and then to obtain a finite generating set for $P$ one chooses a finite normal generating set for $Ntimes{1}$ and then appends a generating set for the diagonal $Deltacong H=F_2$.



A surprisingly powerful result, called the $1$-$2$-$3$ theorem, gives conditions on the fibre products to be finitely presentable, see: G. Baumslag, M.R. Bridson, C.F. Miller III, H. Short, Fibre products, non-positive curvature, and decision problems, Comm. Math. Helv. 75 (2000), 457–477.



A super-powerful application of fibre products is the following (the application is the main result of a paper in the Annals of Mathematics, one of the top journals - undisputed top 4 journal, disputed no. 1). If $Gamma$ is a group then $widehat{Gamma}$ denotes its profinite completion.



Question (Grothendieck, 1970). Let $Gamma_1$ and $Gamma_2$ be finitely presented, residually finite groups and let $u :Gamma_1rightarrow Gamma_2$ be a homomorphism such that $widehat{u} :widehat{Gamma}_1rightarrow widehat{Gamma}_2$ is an isomorphism of profinite groups. Does it follow that $u$ is an isomorphism from $Gamma_1$ onto $Gamma_2$?



Theorem (Bridson, Grunewald, 2004, Ann. Math., link). There exists a short exact sequence $1rightarrow NrightarrowGammarightarrow Qrightarrow 1$ where $Gamma$ has a whole host of nice properties, and where $P$ and $Gamma$ are a counter-example to Grothendieck's question: $P$ and $Gamma$ are finitely presentable, with $widehat{P}cong widehat{Gamma}$ but $Pnotcong Gamma$.







share|cite|improve this answer














share|cite|improve this answer



share|cite|improve this answer








edited Jan 24 at 9:41

























answered Jan 22 at 16:30









user1729user1729

17.2k64193




17.2k64193












  • $begingroup$
    @Shaun regarding your numerals edit, you might be interested in this tex.SE question.
    $endgroup$
    – user1729
    Jan 22 at 19:10










  • $begingroup$
    Thank you, @user1729; that'll save me some time in future! It's nice to know a useful convention :)
    $endgroup$
    – Shaun
    Jan 22 at 19:45










  • $begingroup$
    "A powerful tool in group theory, developed over the last 20 or so years but has a longer history". This sounds weird. I'd certainly not say that the tool of fibre products was developed in this period. Also if I prove a result about direct products I'm not developing the tool of direct product.
    $endgroup$
    – YCor
    Jan 24 at 3:43












  • $begingroup$
    @YCor I'll remove the statement with the dates. However, I can only think of three results pre-Baumslag, Bridson, Miller, Short which use fibre products (but I think they invented the name?). So do you think it would be correct to say that they "came to the fore" in the past 20 years?
    $endgroup$
    – user1729
    Jan 24 at 9:41


















  • $begingroup$
    @Shaun regarding your numerals edit, you might be interested in this tex.SE question.
    $endgroup$
    – user1729
    Jan 22 at 19:10










  • $begingroup$
    Thank you, @user1729; that'll save me some time in future! It's nice to know a useful convention :)
    $endgroup$
    – Shaun
    Jan 22 at 19:45










  • $begingroup$
    "A powerful tool in group theory, developed over the last 20 or so years but has a longer history". This sounds weird. I'd certainly not say that the tool of fibre products was developed in this period. Also if I prove a result about direct products I'm not developing the tool of direct product.
    $endgroup$
    – YCor
    Jan 24 at 3:43












  • $begingroup$
    @YCor I'll remove the statement with the dates. However, I can only think of three results pre-Baumslag, Bridson, Miller, Short which use fibre products (but I think they invented the name?). So do you think it would be correct to say that they "came to the fore" in the past 20 years?
    $endgroup$
    – user1729
    Jan 24 at 9:41
















$begingroup$
@Shaun regarding your numerals edit, you might be interested in this tex.SE question.
$endgroup$
– user1729
Jan 22 at 19:10




$begingroup$
@Shaun regarding your numerals edit, you might be interested in this tex.SE question.
$endgroup$
– user1729
Jan 22 at 19:10












$begingroup$
Thank you, @user1729; that'll save me some time in future! It's nice to know a useful convention :)
$endgroup$
– Shaun
Jan 22 at 19:45




$begingroup$
Thank you, @user1729; that'll save me some time in future! It's nice to know a useful convention :)
$endgroup$
– Shaun
Jan 22 at 19:45












$begingroup$
"A powerful tool in group theory, developed over the last 20 or so years but has a longer history". This sounds weird. I'd certainly not say that the tool of fibre products was developed in this period. Also if I prove a result about direct products I'm not developing the tool of direct product.
$endgroup$
– YCor
Jan 24 at 3:43






$begingroup$
"A powerful tool in group theory, developed over the last 20 or so years but has a longer history". This sounds weird. I'd certainly not say that the tool of fibre products was developed in this period. Also if I prove a result about direct products I'm not developing the tool of direct product.
$endgroup$
– YCor
Jan 24 at 3:43














$begingroup$
@YCor I'll remove the statement with the dates. However, I can only think of three results pre-Baumslag, Bridson, Miller, Short which use fibre products (but I think they invented the name?). So do you think it would be correct to say that they "came to the fore" in the past 20 years?
$endgroup$
– user1729
Jan 24 at 9:41




$begingroup$
@YCor I'll remove the statement with the dates. However, I can only think of three results pre-Baumslag, Bridson, Miller, Short which use fibre products (but I think they invented the name?). So do you think it would be correct to say that they "came to the fore" in the past 20 years?
$endgroup$
– user1729
Jan 24 at 9:41











0












$begingroup$

Typically, when you know that an object is a subdirect product of other objects, you know that it inherits all properties that are passed from products of those objects to their subsets. For example, a subdirect product of abelian groups must be abelian (and the same for any other group identity).






share|cite|improve this answer











$endgroup$









  • 1




    $begingroup$
    This seems to just be a property of a "subgroup of the direct product", which is a weaker property than being a subdirect product.
    $endgroup$
    – Ted
    Jan 22 at 17:07
















0












$begingroup$

Typically, when you know that an object is a subdirect product of other objects, you know that it inherits all properties that are passed from products of those objects to their subsets. For example, a subdirect product of abelian groups must be abelian (and the same for any other group identity).






share|cite|improve this answer











$endgroup$









  • 1




    $begingroup$
    This seems to just be a property of a "subgroup of the direct product", which is a weaker property than being a subdirect product.
    $endgroup$
    – Ted
    Jan 22 at 17:07














0












0








0





$begingroup$

Typically, when you know that an object is a subdirect product of other objects, you know that it inherits all properties that are passed from products of those objects to their subsets. For example, a subdirect product of abelian groups must be abelian (and the same for any other group identity).






share|cite|improve this answer











$endgroup$



Typically, when you know that an object is a subdirect product of other objects, you know that it inherits all properties that are passed from products of those objects to their subsets. For example, a subdirect product of abelian groups must be abelian (and the same for any other group identity).







share|cite|improve this answer














share|cite|improve this answer



share|cite|improve this answer








edited Jan 22 at 16:38









user1729

17.2k64193




17.2k64193










answered Jan 22 at 9:26









Jose BroxJose Brox

3,15711128




3,15711128








  • 1




    $begingroup$
    This seems to just be a property of a "subgroup of the direct product", which is a weaker property than being a subdirect product.
    $endgroup$
    – Ted
    Jan 22 at 17:07














  • 1




    $begingroup$
    This seems to just be a property of a "subgroup of the direct product", which is a weaker property than being a subdirect product.
    $endgroup$
    – Ted
    Jan 22 at 17:07








1




1




$begingroup$
This seems to just be a property of a "subgroup of the direct product", which is a weaker property than being a subdirect product.
$endgroup$
– Ted
Jan 22 at 17:07




$begingroup$
This seems to just be a property of a "subgroup of the direct product", which is a weaker property than being a subdirect product.
$endgroup$
– Ted
Jan 22 at 17:07


















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