Does Young's inequality hold only for conjugate exponents?
$begingroup$
Suppose that $ab leq frac{1}{p}a^p+frac{1}{q}b^q$ holds for every real numbers $a,bge 0$. (where $p,q>0$ are some fixed numbers).
Is it true that $ frac{1}{p}+frac{1}{q}=1$?
I guess so, and I would like to find an easy proof of that fact. Plugging in $a=b=1$, we get $ frac{1}{p}+frac{1}{q}ge1$. Is there an easy way to see that the converse inequality must hold?
To be clear, I am not looking for proofs of Young's inequality; only for a way to see why the relation between the conjugate exponents is the only possible option.
Edit:
Here is a comment to help future readers (including future me) to see how can one come with Nicolás's nice idea to apply the inequality for $a=lambda^{frac{1}{p}}, b=lambda^{frac{1}{q}}$.
The idea is that it is inconvenient to compare a sum with another number; By using the specific choice of $a,b$ above, the sum is simplified, since the scales of the auxiliary parameter $lambda$ in both summands are now identical.
Comment: I know that the relation $ frac{1}{p}+frac{1}{q}=1$ is necessary for Holder's inequality in general; this can be seen by scaling the measure. However, I don't think this approach is applicable here.
real-analysis inequality symmetry young-inequality
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Suppose that $ab leq frac{1}{p}a^p+frac{1}{q}b^q$ holds for every real numbers $a,bge 0$. (where $p,q>0$ are some fixed numbers).
Is it true that $ frac{1}{p}+frac{1}{q}=1$?
I guess so, and I would like to find an easy proof of that fact. Plugging in $a=b=1$, we get $ frac{1}{p}+frac{1}{q}ge1$. Is there an easy way to see that the converse inequality must hold?
To be clear, I am not looking for proofs of Young's inequality; only for a way to see why the relation between the conjugate exponents is the only possible option.
Edit:
Here is a comment to help future readers (including future me) to see how can one come with Nicolás's nice idea to apply the inequality for $a=lambda^{frac{1}{p}}, b=lambda^{frac{1}{q}}$.
The idea is that it is inconvenient to compare a sum with another number; By using the specific choice of $a,b$ above, the sum is simplified, since the scales of the auxiliary parameter $lambda$ in both summands are now identical.
Comment: I know that the relation $ frac{1}{p}+frac{1}{q}=1$ is necessary for Holder's inequality in general; this can be seen by scaling the measure. However, I don't think this approach is applicable here.
real-analysis inequality symmetry young-inequality
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Suppose that $ab leq frac{1}{p}a^p+frac{1}{q}b^q$ holds for every real numbers $a,bge 0$. (where $p,q>0$ are some fixed numbers).
Is it true that $ frac{1}{p}+frac{1}{q}=1$?
I guess so, and I would like to find an easy proof of that fact. Plugging in $a=b=1$, we get $ frac{1}{p}+frac{1}{q}ge1$. Is there an easy way to see that the converse inequality must hold?
To be clear, I am not looking for proofs of Young's inequality; only for a way to see why the relation between the conjugate exponents is the only possible option.
Edit:
Here is a comment to help future readers (including future me) to see how can one come with Nicolás's nice idea to apply the inequality for $a=lambda^{frac{1}{p}}, b=lambda^{frac{1}{q}}$.
The idea is that it is inconvenient to compare a sum with another number; By using the specific choice of $a,b$ above, the sum is simplified, since the scales of the auxiliary parameter $lambda$ in both summands are now identical.
Comment: I know that the relation $ frac{1}{p}+frac{1}{q}=1$ is necessary for Holder's inequality in general; this can be seen by scaling the measure. However, I don't think this approach is applicable here.
real-analysis inequality symmetry young-inequality
$endgroup$
Suppose that $ab leq frac{1}{p}a^p+frac{1}{q}b^q$ holds for every real numbers $a,bge 0$. (where $p,q>0$ are some fixed numbers).
Is it true that $ frac{1}{p}+frac{1}{q}=1$?
I guess so, and I would like to find an easy proof of that fact. Plugging in $a=b=1$, we get $ frac{1}{p}+frac{1}{q}ge1$. Is there an easy way to see that the converse inequality must hold?
To be clear, I am not looking for proofs of Young's inequality; only for a way to see why the relation between the conjugate exponents is the only possible option.
Edit:
Here is a comment to help future readers (including future me) to see how can one come with Nicolás's nice idea to apply the inequality for $a=lambda^{frac{1}{p}}, b=lambda^{frac{1}{q}}$.
The idea is that it is inconvenient to compare a sum with another number; By using the specific choice of $a,b$ above, the sum is simplified, since the scales of the auxiliary parameter $lambda$ in both summands are now identical.
Comment: I know that the relation $ frac{1}{p}+frac{1}{q}=1$ is necessary for Holder's inequality in general; this can be seen by scaling the measure. However, I don't think this approach is applicable here.
real-analysis inequality symmetry young-inequality
real-analysis inequality symmetry young-inequality
edited Jan 16 at 9:33
Asaf Shachar
asked Jan 16 at 7:38
Asaf ShacharAsaf Shachar
5,53431141
5,53431141
add a comment |
add a comment |
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
$begingroup$
If you apply the inequality for $a=lambda^{frac{1}{p}}, b=lambda^{frac{1}{q}}$, you get something like
$$ lambda^{frac{1}{p}+frac{1}{q}}leq left( frac{1}{p}+frac{1}{q} right)lambda, qquad forall lambda>0. $$
If you take $lambda to infty$, it's clear that $frac{1}{p}+frac{1}{q}leq 1$. Otherwise, after dividing by $lambda$ you get
$$ lambda^{frac{1}{p}+frac{1}{q}-1} leq frac{1}{p}+frac{1}{q}, $$
which is false for $lambda$ large enough, as the right side is constant. Taking $lambda to 0$ gets the other inequality.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Thank you for this nice answer. Can you say something on "how did you came to think about this approach"? I thought of one possible motivation-the one I added to the question's body, which is the following: It is inconvenient to compare a sum with another number; By using your specific choice of $a$ and $b$, the sum is simplified, since the scales of the auxiliary parameter $lambda$ in both summands are now identical. I wonder whether this was your line of thinking as well, or did you have a different "inspiration" on your mind?
$endgroup$
– Asaf Shachar
Jan 18 at 10:51
$begingroup$
What interests me is the fact that by scaling the measure, one can see that in general, Holder's inequality (whose proof crucially relies upon Young's inequality) can only hold when $p,q$ are conjugates. Is there a connection between your approach and that story? (For the Holder's story you can see here: math.stackexchange.com/a/2757556/104576)
$endgroup$
– Asaf Shachar
Jan 18 at 10:55
1
$begingroup$
Yeah, my idea was almost what you said. I didn't recall Hölder's proof, but I read your comment saying "you can show the necessity of $frac{1}{p}+frac{1}{q}=1$ by scalling the measure", so I tried to do the same. Here, "scalling the measure" was "multiply by an appropiate factor". Starting with Young's inequality for $a, b in mathbb{R}^+$, I tried to multiply by a factor that allowed my to factor at the right side (as $a mapsto alambda^{1/p}, b mapsto blambda^{1/q}$). Then $a$ and $b$ weren't important, so I set $a=b=1$ and we have the solution above.
$endgroup$
– Nicolás Vilches
Jan 19 at 14:39
add a comment |
$begingroup$
I think the following can help.
By AM-GM $$frac{1}{p}a^p+frac{1}{q}b^qgeqleft(frac{1}{p}+frac{1}{q}right)left(left(a^pright)^{frac{1}{p}}left(b^qright)^{frac{1}{q}}right)^{frac{1}{frac{1}{p}+frac{1}{q}}}=left(frac{1}{p}+frac{1}{q}right)(ab)^{frac{1}{frac{1}{p}+frac{1}{q}}}.$$
The equality occurs, of course.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Thanks, but I do not understand; How exactly do you deduce from that something on the sum $frac{1}{p}+frac{1}{q}$? I tried putting $a^p=b^q$ (this is when we have equality in the AM-GM inequality) but I don't see how it helps.
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– Asaf Shachar
Jan 16 at 13:19
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@Asaf Shachar The equality, which I got is true for all positives $a$, $b$, $p$ and $q$. If we'll assume that $frac{1}{p}+frac{1}{q}neq1$ then your inequality would wrong.
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– Michael Rozenberg
Jan 16 at 13:27
add a comment |
$begingroup$
I found an argument that works for $p,qge 1$, since I need convexity of $xto x^p,x^q$.
Assume by contradiction that $1/p+1/q>1$. Then, if $p'$ is the conjugate of $q$ we know that $p'>p$.
Now, for any $a>0$ we have
$$
a^{p'}/p'=maxlimits_{b>0}{ab-b^q/q}
$$
(just because $ato a^{p'}/p'$ is the conjugate (Legendre transform) of $bto b^q/q$). Then we can pick $a$ large enough such that
$$
frac{a^p}{p}<frac{a^{p'}}{p'}
$$
and for such $a$ we would have
$$
a^{p}/p<maxlimits_{b>0}{ab-b^q/q}
$$
which implies that for some $b>0$ (and the given $a$) Young's inequality is violated.
Hope this helps.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
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3 Answers
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active
oldest
votes
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
$begingroup$
If you apply the inequality for $a=lambda^{frac{1}{p}}, b=lambda^{frac{1}{q}}$, you get something like
$$ lambda^{frac{1}{p}+frac{1}{q}}leq left( frac{1}{p}+frac{1}{q} right)lambda, qquad forall lambda>0. $$
If you take $lambda to infty$, it's clear that $frac{1}{p}+frac{1}{q}leq 1$. Otherwise, after dividing by $lambda$ you get
$$ lambda^{frac{1}{p}+frac{1}{q}-1} leq frac{1}{p}+frac{1}{q}, $$
which is false for $lambda$ large enough, as the right side is constant. Taking $lambda to 0$ gets the other inequality.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Thank you for this nice answer. Can you say something on "how did you came to think about this approach"? I thought of one possible motivation-the one I added to the question's body, which is the following: It is inconvenient to compare a sum with another number; By using your specific choice of $a$ and $b$, the sum is simplified, since the scales of the auxiliary parameter $lambda$ in both summands are now identical. I wonder whether this was your line of thinking as well, or did you have a different "inspiration" on your mind?
$endgroup$
– Asaf Shachar
Jan 18 at 10:51
$begingroup$
What interests me is the fact that by scaling the measure, one can see that in general, Holder's inequality (whose proof crucially relies upon Young's inequality) can only hold when $p,q$ are conjugates. Is there a connection between your approach and that story? (For the Holder's story you can see here: math.stackexchange.com/a/2757556/104576)
$endgroup$
– Asaf Shachar
Jan 18 at 10:55
1
$begingroup$
Yeah, my idea was almost what you said. I didn't recall Hölder's proof, but I read your comment saying "you can show the necessity of $frac{1}{p}+frac{1}{q}=1$ by scalling the measure", so I tried to do the same. Here, "scalling the measure" was "multiply by an appropiate factor". Starting with Young's inequality for $a, b in mathbb{R}^+$, I tried to multiply by a factor that allowed my to factor at the right side (as $a mapsto alambda^{1/p}, b mapsto blambda^{1/q}$). Then $a$ and $b$ weren't important, so I set $a=b=1$ and we have the solution above.
$endgroup$
– Nicolás Vilches
Jan 19 at 14:39
add a comment |
$begingroup$
If you apply the inequality for $a=lambda^{frac{1}{p}}, b=lambda^{frac{1}{q}}$, you get something like
$$ lambda^{frac{1}{p}+frac{1}{q}}leq left( frac{1}{p}+frac{1}{q} right)lambda, qquad forall lambda>0. $$
If you take $lambda to infty$, it's clear that $frac{1}{p}+frac{1}{q}leq 1$. Otherwise, after dividing by $lambda$ you get
$$ lambda^{frac{1}{p}+frac{1}{q}-1} leq frac{1}{p}+frac{1}{q}, $$
which is false for $lambda$ large enough, as the right side is constant. Taking $lambda to 0$ gets the other inequality.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Thank you for this nice answer. Can you say something on "how did you came to think about this approach"? I thought of one possible motivation-the one I added to the question's body, which is the following: It is inconvenient to compare a sum with another number; By using your specific choice of $a$ and $b$, the sum is simplified, since the scales of the auxiliary parameter $lambda$ in both summands are now identical. I wonder whether this was your line of thinking as well, or did you have a different "inspiration" on your mind?
$endgroup$
– Asaf Shachar
Jan 18 at 10:51
$begingroup$
What interests me is the fact that by scaling the measure, one can see that in general, Holder's inequality (whose proof crucially relies upon Young's inequality) can only hold when $p,q$ are conjugates. Is there a connection between your approach and that story? (For the Holder's story you can see here: math.stackexchange.com/a/2757556/104576)
$endgroup$
– Asaf Shachar
Jan 18 at 10:55
1
$begingroup$
Yeah, my idea was almost what you said. I didn't recall Hölder's proof, but I read your comment saying "you can show the necessity of $frac{1}{p}+frac{1}{q}=1$ by scalling the measure", so I tried to do the same. Here, "scalling the measure" was "multiply by an appropiate factor". Starting with Young's inequality for $a, b in mathbb{R}^+$, I tried to multiply by a factor that allowed my to factor at the right side (as $a mapsto alambda^{1/p}, b mapsto blambda^{1/q}$). Then $a$ and $b$ weren't important, so I set $a=b=1$ and we have the solution above.
$endgroup$
– Nicolás Vilches
Jan 19 at 14:39
add a comment |
$begingroup$
If you apply the inequality for $a=lambda^{frac{1}{p}}, b=lambda^{frac{1}{q}}$, you get something like
$$ lambda^{frac{1}{p}+frac{1}{q}}leq left( frac{1}{p}+frac{1}{q} right)lambda, qquad forall lambda>0. $$
If you take $lambda to infty$, it's clear that $frac{1}{p}+frac{1}{q}leq 1$. Otherwise, after dividing by $lambda$ you get
$$ lambda^{frac{1}{p}+frac{1}{q}-1} leq frac{1}{p}+frac{1}{q}, $$
which is false for $lambda$ large enough, as the right side is constant. Taking $lambda to 0$ gets the other inequality.
$endgroup$
If you apply the inequality for $a=lambda^{frac{1}{p}}, b=lambda^{frac{1}{q}}$, you get something like
$$ lambda^{frac{1}{p}+frac{1}{q}}leq left( frac{1}{p}+frac{1}{q} right)lambda, qquad forall lambda>0. $$
If you take $lambda to infty$, it's clear that $frac{1}{p}+frac{1}{q}leq 1$. Otherwise, after dividing by $lambda$ you get
$$ lambda^{frac{1}{p}+frac{1}{q}-1} leq frac{1}{p}+frac{1}{q}, $$
which is false for $lambda$ large enough, as the right side is constant. Taking $lambda to 0$ gets the other inequality.
answered Jan 16 at 8:09
Nicolás VilchesNicolás Vilches
53638
53638
$begingroup$
Thank you for this nice answer. Can you say something on "how did you came to think about this approach"? I thought of one possible motivation-the one I added to the question's body, which is the following: It is inconvenient to compare a sum with another number; By using your specific choice of $a$ and $b$, the sum is simplified, since the scales of the auxiliary parameter $lambda$ in both summands are now identical. I wonder whether this was your line of thinking as well, or did you have a different "inspiration" on your mind?
$endgroup$
– Asaf Shachar
Jan 18 at 10:51
$begingroup$
What interests me is the fact that by scaling the measure, one can see that in general, Holder's inequality (whose proof crucially relies upon Young's inequality) can only hold when $p,q$ are conjugates. Is there a connection between your approach and that story? (For the Holder's story you can see here: math.stackexchange.com/a/2757556/104576)
$endgroup$
– Asaf Shachar
Jan 18 at 10:55
1
$begingroup$
Yeah, my idea was almost what you said. I didn't recall Hölder's proof, but I read your comment saying "you can show the necessity of $frac{1}{p}+frac{1}{q}=1$ by scalling the measure", so I tried to do the same. Here, "scalling the measure" was "multiply by an appropiate factor". Starting with Young's inequality for $a, b in mathbb{R}^+$, I tried to multiply by a factor that allowed my to factor at the right side (as $a mapsto alambda^{1/p}, b mapsto blambda^{1/q}$). Then $a$ and $b$ weren't important, so I set $a=b=1$ and we have the solution above.
$endgroup$
– Nicolás Vilches
Jan 19 at 14:39
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Thank you for this nice answer. Can you say something on "how did you came to think about this approach"? I thought of one possible motivation-the one I added to the question's body, which is the following: It is inconvenient to compare a sum with another number; By using your specific choice of $a$ and $b$, the sum is simplified, since the scales of the auxiliary parameter $lambda$ in both summands are now identical. I wonder whether this was your line of thinking as well, or did you have a different "inspiration" on your mind?
$endgroup$
– Asaf Shachar
Jan 18 at 10:51
$begingroup$
What interests me is the fact that by scaling the measure, one can see that in general, Holder's inequality (whose proof crucially relies upon Young's inequality) can only hold when $p,q$ are conjugates. Is there a connection between your approach and that story? (For the Holder's story you can see here: math.stackexchange.com/a/2757556/104576)
$endgroup$
– Asaf Shachar
Jan 18 at 10:55
1
$begingroup$
Yeah, my idea was almost what you said. I didn't recall Hölder's proof, but I read your comment saying "you can show the necessity of $frac{1}{p}+frac{1}{q}=1$ by scalling the measure", so I tried to do the same. Here, "scalling the measure" was "multiply by an appropiate factor". Starting with Young's inequality for $a, b in mathbb{R}^+$, I tried to multiply by a factor that allowed my to factor at the right side (as $a mapsto alambda^{1/p}, b mapsto blambda^{1/q}$). Then $a$ and $b$ weren't important, so I set $a=b=1$ and we have the solution above.
$endgroup$
– Nicolás Vilches
Jan 19 at 14:39
$begingroup$
Thank you for this nice answer. Can you say something on "how did you came to think about this approach"? I thought of one possible motivation-the one I added to the question's body, which is the following: It is inconvenient to compare a sum with another number; By using your specific choice of $a$ and $b$, the sum is simplified, since the scales of the auxiliary parameter $lambda$ in both summands are now identical. I wonder whether this was your line of thinking as well, or did you have a different "inspiration" on your mind?
$endgroup$
– Asaf Shachar
Jan 18 at 10:51
$begingroup$
Thank you for this nice answer. Can you say something on "how did you came to think about this approach"? I thought of one possible motivation-the one I added to the question's body, which is the following: It is inconvenient to compare a sum with another number; By using your specific choice of $a$ and $b$, the sum is simplified, since the scales of the auxiliary parameter $lambda$ in both summands are now identical. I wonder whether this was your line of thinking as well, or did you have a different "inspiration" on your mind?
$endgroup$
– Asaf Shachar
Jan 18 at 10:51
$begingroup$
What interests me is the fact that by scaling the measure, one can see that in general, Holder's inequality (whose proof crucially relies upon Young's inequality) can only hold when $p,q$ are conjugates. Is there a connection between your approach and that story? (For the Holder's story you can see here: math.stackexchange.com/a/2757556/104576)
$endgroup$
– Asaf Shachar
Jan 18 at 10:55
$begingroup$
What interests me is the fact that by scaling the measure, one can see that in general, Holder's inequality (whose proof crucially relies upon Young's inequality) can only hold when $p,q$ are conjugates. Is there a connection between your approach and that story? (For the Holder's story you can see here: math.stackexchange.com/a/2757556/104576)
$endgroup$
– Asaf Shachar
Jan 18 at 10:55
1
1
$begingroup$
Yeah, my idea was almost what you said. I didn't recall Hölder's proof, but I read your comment saying "you can show the necessity of $frac{1}{p}+frac{1}{q}=1$ by scalling the measure", so I tried to do the same. Here, "scalling the measure" was "multiply by an appropiate factor". Starting with Young's inequality for $a, b in mathbb{R}^+$, I tried to multiply by a factor that allowed my to factor at the right side (as $a mapsto alambda^{1/p}, b mapsto blambda^{1/q}$). Then $a$ and $b$ weren't important, so I set $a=b=1$ and we have the solution above.
$endgroup$
– Nicolás Vilches
Jan 19 at 14:39
$begingroup$
Yeah, my idea was almost what you said. I didn't recall Hölder's proof, but I read your comment saying "you can show the necessity of $frac{1}{p}+frac{1}{q}=1$ by scalling the measure", so I tried to do the same. Here, "scalling the measure" was "multiply by an appropiate factor". Starting with Young's inequality for $a, b in mathbb{R}^+$, I tried to multiply by a factor that allowed my to factor at the right side (as $a mapsto alambda^{1/p}, b mapsto blambda^{1/q}$). Then $a$ and $b$ weren't important, so I set $a=b=1$ and we have the solution above.
$endgroup$
– Nicolás Vilches
Jan 19 at 14:39
add a comment |
$begingroup$
I think the following can help.
By AM-GM $$frac{1}{p}a^p+frac{1}{q}b^qgeqleft(frac{1}{p}+frac{1}{q}right)left(left(a^pright)^{frac{1}{p}}left(b^qright)^{frac{1}{q}}right)^{frac{1}{frac{1}{p}+frac{1}{q}}}=left(frac{1}{p}+frac{1}{q}right)(ab)^{frac{1}{frac{1}{p}+frac{1}{q}}}.$$
The equality occurs, of course.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Thanks, but I do not understand; How exactly do you deduce from that something on the sum $frac{1}{p}+frac{1}{q}$? I tried putting $a^p=b^q$ (this is when we have equality in the AM-GM inequality) but I don't see how it helps.
$endgroup$
– Asaf Shachar
Jan 16 at 13:19
$begingroup$
@Asaf Shachar The equality, which I got is true for all positives $a$, $b$, $p$ and $q$. If we'll assume that $frac{1}{p}+frac{1}{q}neq1$ then your inequality would wrong.
$endgroup$
– Michael Rozenberg
Jan 16 at 13:27
add a comment |
$begingroup$
I think the following can help.
By AM-GM $$frac{1}{p}a^p+frac{1}{q}b^qgeqleft(frac{1}{p}+frac{1}{q}right)left(left(a^pright)^{frac{1}{p}}left(b^qright)^{frac{1}{q}}right)^{frac{1}{frac{1}{p}+frac{1}{q}}}=left(frac{1}{p}+frac{1}{q}right)(ab)^{frac{1}{frac{1}{p}+frac{1}{q}}}.$$
The equality occurs, of course.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Thanks, but I do not understand; How exactly do you deduce from that something on the sum $frac{1}{p}+frac{1}{q}$? I tried putting $a^p=b^q$ (this is when we have equality in the AM-GM inequality) but I don't see how it helps.
$endgroup$
– Asaf Shachar
Jan 16 at 13:19
$begingroup$
@Asaf Shachar The equality, which I got is true for all positives $a$, $b$, $p$ and $q$. If we'll assume that $frac{1}{p}+frac{1}{q}neq1$ then your inequality would wrong.
$endgroup$
– Michael Rozenberg
Jan 16 at 13:27
add a comment |
$begingroup$
I think the following can help.
By AM-GM $$frac{1}{p}a^p+frac{1}{q}b^qgeqleft(frac{1}{p}+frac{1}{q}right)left(left(a^pright)^{frac{1}{p}}left(b^qright)^{frac{1}{q}}right)^{frac{1}{frac{1}{p}+frac{1}{q}}}=left(frac{1}{p}+frac{1}{q}right)(ab)^{frac{1}{frac{1}{p}+frac{1}{q}}}.$$
The equality occurs, of course.
$endgroup$
I think the following can help.
By AM-GM $$frac{1}{p}a^p+frac{1}{q}b^qgeqleft(frac{1}{p}+frac{1}{q}right)left(left(a^pright)^{frac{1}{p}}left(b^qright)^{frac{1}{q}}right)^{frac{1}{frac{1}{p}+frac{1}{q}}}=left(frac{1}{p}+frac{1}{q}right)(ab)^{frac{1}{frac{1}{p}+frac{1}{q}}}.$$
The equality occurs, of course.
edited Jan 16 at 8:50
answered Jan 16 at 8:29
Michael RozenbergMichael Rozenberg
102k1591195
102k1591195
$begingroup$
Thanks, but I do not understand; How exactly do you deduce from that something on the sum $frac{1}{p}+frac{1}{q}$? I tried putting $a^p=b^q$ (this is when we have equality in the AM-GM inequality) but I don't see how it helps.
$endgroup$
– Asaf Shachar
Jan 16 at 13:19
$begingroup$
@Asaf Shachar The equality, which I got is true for all positives $a$, $b$, $p$ and $q$. If we'll assume that $frac{1}{p}+frac{1}{q}neq1$ then your inequality would wrong.
$endgroup$
– Michael Rozenberg
Jan 16 at 13:27
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Thanks, but I do not understand; How exactly do you deduce from that something on the sum $frac{1}{p}+frac{1}{q}$? I tried putting $a^p=b^q$ (this is when we have equality in the AM-GM inequality) but I don't see how it helps.
$endgroup$
– Asaf Shachar
Jan 16 at 13:19
$begingroup$
@Asaf Shachar The equality, which I got is true for all positives $a$, $b$, $p$ and $q$. If we'll assume that $frac{1}{p}+frac{1}{q}neq1$ then your inequality would wrong.
$endgroup$
– Michael Rozenberg
Jan 16 at 13:27
$begingroup$
Thanks, but I do not understand; How exactly do you deduce from that something on the sum $frac{1}{p}+frac{1}{q}$? I tried putting $a^p=b^q$ (this is when we have equality in the AM-GM inequality) but I don't see how it helps.
$endgroup$
– Asaf Shachar
Jan 16 at 13:19
$begingroup$
Thanks, but I do not understand; How exactly do you deduce from that something on the sum $frac{1}{p}+frac{1}{q}$? I tried putting $a^p=b^q$ (this is when we have equality in the AM-GM inequality) but I don't see how it helps.
$endgroup$
– Asaf Shachar
Jan 16 at 13:19
$begingroup$
@Asaf Shachar The equality, which I got is true for all positives $a$, $b$, $p$ and $q$. If we'll assume that $frac{1}{p}+frac{1}{q}neq1$ then your inequality would wrong.
$endgroup$
– Michael Rozenberg
Jan 16 at 13:27
$begingroup$
@Asaf Shachar The equality, which I got is true for all positives $a$, $b$, $p$ and $q$. If we'll assume that $frac{1}{p}+frac{1}{q}neq1$ then your inequality would wrong.
$endgroup$
– Michael Rozenberg
Jan 16 at 13:27
add a comment |
$begingroup$
I found an argument that works for $p,qge 1$, since I need convexity of $xto x^p,x^q$.
Assume by contradiction that $1/p+1/q>1$. Then, if $p'$ is the conjugate of $q$ we know that $p'>p$.
Now, for any $a>0$ we have
$$
a^{p'}/p'=maxlimits_{b>0}{ab-b^q/q}
$$
(just because $ato a^{p'}/p'$ is the conjugate (Legendre transform) of $bto b^q/q$). Then we can pick $a$ large enough such that
$$
frac{a^p}{p}<frac{a^{p'}}{p'}
$$
and for such $a$ we would have
$$
a^{p}/p<maxlimits_{b>0}{ab-b^q/q}
$$
which implies that for some $b>0$ (and the given $a$) Young's inequality is violated.
Hope this helps.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
I found an argument that works for $p,qge 1$, since I need convexity of $xto x^p,x^q$.
Assume by contradiction that $1/p+1/q>1$. Then, if $p'$ is the conjugate of $q$ we know that $p'>p$.
Now, for any $a>0$ we have
$$
a^{p'}/p'=maxlimits_{b>0}{ab-b^q/q}
$$
(just because $ato a^{p'}/p'$ is the conjugate (Legendre transform) of $bto b^q/q$). Then we can pick $a$ large enough such that
$$
frac{a^p}{p}<frac{a^{p'}}{p'}
$$
and for such $a$ we would have
$$
a^{p}/p<maxlimits_{b>0}{ab-b^q/q}
$$
which implies that for some $b>0$ (and the given $a$) Young's inequality is violated.
Hope this helps.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
I found an argument that works for $p,qge 1$, since I need convexity of $xto x^p,x^q$.
Assume by contradiction that $1/p+1/q>1$. Then, if $p'$ is the conjugate of $q$ we know that $p'>p$.
Now, for any $a>0$ we have
$$
a^{p'}/p'=maxlimits_{b>0}{ab-b^q/q}
$$
(just because $ato a^{p'}/p'$ is the conjugate (Legendre transform) of $bto b^q/q$). Then we can pick $a$ large enough such that
$$
frac{a^p}{p}<frac{a^{p'}}{p'}
$$
and for such $a$ we would have
$$
a^{p}/p<maxlimits_{b>0}{ab-b^q/q}
$$
which implies that for some $b>0$ (and the given $a$) Young's inequality is violated.
Hope this helps.
$endgroup$
I found an argument that works for $p,qge 1$, since I need convexity of $xto x^p,x^q$.
Assume by contradiction that $1/p+1/q>1$. Then, if $p'$ is the conjugate of $q$ we know that $p'>p$.
Now, for any $a>0$ we have
$$
a^{p'}/p'=maxlimits_{b>0}{ab-b^q/q}
$$
(just because $ato a^{p'}/p'$ is the conjugate (Legendre transform) of $bto b^q/q$). Then we can pick $a$ large enough such that
$$
frac{a^p}{p}<frac{a^{p'}}{p'}
$$
and for such $a$ we would have
$$
a^{p}/p<maxlimits_{b>0}{ab-b^q/q}
$$
which implies that for some $b>0$ (and the given $a$) Young's inequality is violated.
Hope this helps.
answered Jan 16 at 8:23
GReyesGReyes
1,0795
1,0795
add a comment |
add a comment |
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