Find the structure of $ mathbb Z ^{3} / K $ with $K$ the image of a matrix












1












$begingroup$


I have this matrix:
$$
A= begin{pmatrix} 2 & 5 & -1 & 2\ -2 & -16 & -4 & 4 \ -2 &-2 &0 &6
end{pmatrix}
$$

If we set K as the Image of this matrix, how do you find a basis of $ K $ of this form :
$$( d_1 w_1 , cdots , d_s w_s ), s leq 4$$
such that we have that $( w_1 , cdots , w_4 ) $ is a basis of $ mathbb Z ^{3} $ and that $ d_i | d_{i+1} $



I must use the Smith normal form, but I'm blocked by the fact that I can't find a basis of the Image.
In the correction of this exercice, their are using a method I'm not understanding.



I would firstly determine a basis of the image and then do the same computation as I usually do.










share|cite|improve this question









$endgroup$

















    1












    $begingroup$


    I have this matrix:
    $$
    A= begin{pmatrix} 2 & 5 & -1 & 2\ -2 & -16 & -4 & 4 \ -2 &-2 &0 &6
    end{pmatrix}
    $$

    If we set K as the Image of this matrix, how do you find a basis of $ K $ of this form :
    $$( d_1 w_1 , cdots , d_s w_s ), s leq 4$$
    such that we have that $( w_1 , cdots , w_4 ) $ is a basis of $ mathbb Z ^{3} $ and that $ d_i | d_{i+1} $



    I must use the Smith normal form, but I'm blocked by the fact that I can't find a basis of the Image.
    In the correction of this exercice, their are using a method I'm not understanding.



    I would firstly determine a basis of the image and then do the same computation as I usually do.










    share|cite|improve this question









    $endgroup$















      1












      1








      1


      1



      $begingroup$


      I have this matrix:
      $$
      A= begin{pmatrix} 2 & 5 & -1 & 2\ -2 & -16 & -4 & 4 \ -2 &-2 &0 &6
      end{pmatrix}
      $$

      If we set K as the Image of this matrix, how do you find a basis of $ K $ of this form :
      $$( d_1 w_1 , cdots , d_s w_s ), s leq 4$$
      such that we have that $( w_1 , cdots , w_4 ) $ is a basis of $ mathbb Z ^{3} $ and that $ d_i | d_{i+1} $



      I must use the Smith normal form, but I'm blocked by the fact that I can't find a basis of the Image.
      In the correction of this exercice, their are using a method I'm not understanding.



      I would firstly determine a basis of the image and then do the same computation as I usually do.










      share|cite|improve this question









      $endgroup$




      I have this matrix:
      $$
      A= begin{pmatrix} 2 & 5 & -1 & 2\ -2 & -16 & -4 & 4 \ -2 &-2 &0 &6
      end{pmatrix}
      $$

      If we set K as the Image of this matrix, how do you find a basis of $ K $ of this form :
      $$( d_1 w_1 , cdots , d_s w_s ), s leq 4$$
      such that we have that $( w_1 , cdots , w_4 ) $ is a basis of $ mathbb Z ^{3} $ and that $ d_i | d_{i+1} $



      I must use the Smith normal form, but I'm blocked by the fact that I can't find a basis of the Image.
      In the correction of this exercice, their are using a method I'm not understanding.



      I would firstly determine a basis of the image and then do the same computation as I usually do.







      linear-algebra modules smith-normal-form






      share|cite|improve this question













      share|cite|improve this question











      share|cite|improve this question




      share|cite|improve this question










      asked Jan 12 at 18:40









      Marine GalantinMarine Galantin

      798216




      798216






















          3 Answers
          3






          active

          oldest

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          3












          $begingroup$

          $DeclareMathOperator{im}{Im}DeclareMathOperator{sp}{Span}require{AMScd}$First, let us understand where all the maps are going in the Smith normal form:



          begin{CD}
          mathbb{Z}^4 @>A>> mathbb{Z}^3\
          @APAA @AAQA \ mathbb{Z}^4 @>>D> mathbb{Z}^3
          end{CD}



          $P$ and $Q$ are isomorphisms (invertible), $D$ is diagonal and $A = QDP^{-1}$. The point of $P$ and $Q$ is that they are a change of basis such that in the new basis, $A$ acts diagonally.



          We want to compute the image of $A$, or equivalently, the image of $QDP^{-1}$.



          First, I claim that $im(A) = im(QD)$ and this is because $P$ is invertible.




          Let $y in im(A)$. Then $y = Ax = QDP^{-1}$ for some $x$. So $y = QD(P^{-1}x)$ is in the image of $QD$. Next, let $y in im(QD)$. Then $y = QDx$ for some $x$. Since $P$ (and also $P^{-1}$) is invertible, there must be some $x'$ such that $x = P^{-1}x'$ (namely: $x' = Px$). Then $y = QDP^{-1}x' = Ax' in im{A}$.




          The general rule here is that if $A = BC$ and $C$ is invertible, then $im(A) = im(B)$.



          Next, given any matrix, the image of that matrix is the same as the column space.




          To demonstrate, let $B$ have columns $v_1, dots, v_n$ and let $x = (x_1,dots,x_n)$. Then
          $$ Bx = begin{pmatrix} v_1 & cdots & v_n end{pmatrix} begin{pmatrix} x_1 \ vdots \ x_n end{pmatrix} = x_1v_1 + cdots + x_nv_n in sp{v_1,dots,v_n}$$
          And conversely, any element $x_1v_1 + cdots + x_n v_n in sp{v_1,dots,v_n}$ can be written as $Bx$ where $x = (x_1,dots,x_n)$.




          So what we have shown is that $im(A) = im(QD) = sp{text{columns of $QD$}}$.



          Now the last step is what I said near the beginning: $P$ and $Q$ represent a change of basis. So the columns of $Q$ are a basis for $mathbb{Z}^3$ and the columns of $P$ are a basis for $mathbb{Z}^4$. (In fact, the same is true for $P^{-1}, Q^{-1}$ as well as $P^T$ and $Q^T$ or, more generally, any invertible matrix.)



          So the columns of $Q$ are a basis for $mathbb{Z^3}$ and the (non-zero) columns of $QD$ are a basis for $im(A)$. Then it's just a matter of understanding how diagonal matrices act on other matrices. Multiplying by a diagonal matrix on the right multiplies the columns by the corresponding diagonal element. Multiplying by a diagonal matrix on the left multiplies the rows by the corresponding diagonal element.



          This is why $QD$ is obtained from $Q$ by multiplying the columns by $-1, -2$, and $2$ respectively.






          share|cite|improve this answer









          $endgroup$





















            0












            $begingroup$

            I don't know if you are follow the same course as mine but I had this exact exercice this semester with D. Testerman. Here is the solution :



            First Part



            Second Part






            share|cite|improve this answer









            $endgroup$













            • $begingroup$
              Yes I do and actually i dont understand this solution. That is why i m asking for another one facepalm ^~^''
              $endgroup$
              – Marine Galantin
              Jan 12 at 19:22










            • $begingroup$
              @Marine What parts do you understand or not understand? Do you understand how $D$ is computed? How $Q$ is computed? Why $operatorname{Im}(f_A) = operatorname{Im}(f_{QD})$? Why the columns of $Q$ are a basis of $mathbb{Z}^{3}$? Why the columns of $QD$ are a basis of $operatorname{Im}(f_A)$?
              $endgroup$
              – Trevor Gunn
              Jan 12 at 19:31












            • $begingroup$
              The only thing I understand is : how you do the smith normal form, and how you fins the matrices P and Q. The rest is meaningless for me...
              $endgroup$
              – Marine Galantin
              Jan 12 at 19:34








            • 1




              $begingroup$
              @MarineGalantin Ah sure no problems, good luck for Wednesday!
              $endgroup$
              – NotAbelianGroup
              Jan 12 at 21:15



















            0












            $begingroup$

            This took me six elementary column matrices, the 4 by 4 square matrix has determinant $1.$ Actually, I combined some steps, so it might be more reasonable to indicate the square matrix as $R = R_1 R_2R_3R_4R_5R_6R_7 R_8,$ this is the order when using column operations rather than the more familiar row operations.



            $$
            left(
            begin{array}{rrrr}
            2& 5& -1& 2 \
            -2& -16& -4& 4 \
            -2& -2& 0& 6 \
            end{array}
            right)
            left(
            begin{array}{rrrr}
            1 &-3& -10 & -56 \
            0 &1 & 3 & 17 \
            1 &-3 & -9 &-53 \
            0& -1 & -2 & -13 \
            end{array}
            right) =
            left(
            begin{array}{rrrr}
            1 & 0 &0& 0 \
            -6 &-2& 0& 0 \
            -2 &-2& 2 & 0 \
            end{array}
            right)
            $$






            share|cite|improve this answer









            $endgroup$













            • $begingroup$
              Thank you for the help. But then?
              $endgroup$
              – Marine Galantin
              Jan 12 at 19:24










            • $begingroup$
              @MarineGalantin The nonzero columns of the 3 by 4 matrix on the right give an integral basis for the image, which is what you said you wanted.
              $endgroup$
              – Will Jagy
              Jan 12 at 19:28










            • $begingroup$
              Okay and how do you obtain it, did you just reduced the matrix?
              $endgroup$
              – Marine Galantin
              Jan 12 at 19:29










            • $begingroup$
              @MarineGalantin experience is best. Can you find an integral matrix $T$ with determinant $1,$ three by three, so that $TAR$ is in Smith form? This $T$ will be the product of two or three elementary integer matrices, for row operations the order will be $T = T_3 T_2 T_1$
              $endgroup$
              – Will Jagy
              Jan 12 at 19:35










            • $begingroup$
              Im sorry I don't understand exactly what you re saying. Anyways, if that s what you mean, I know that any integral matrix can be written in it s smith form. This afterwards gives me a decomposition $Q^{-1} AP = D $, is it your $TAR$?
              $endgroup$
              – Marine Galantin
              Jan 12 at 19:37













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            3 Answers
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            active

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            3 Answers
            3






            active

            oldest

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            active

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            3












            $begingroup$

            $DeclareMathOperator{im}{Im}DeclareMathOperator{sp}{Span}require{AMScd}$First, let us understand where all the maps are going in the Smith normal form:



            begin{CD}
            mathbb{Z}^4 @>A>> mathbb{Z}^3\
            @APAA @AAQA \ mathbb{Z}^4 @>>D> mathbb{Z}^3
            end{CD}



            $P$ and $Q$ are isomorphisms (invertible), $D$ is diagonal and $A = QDP^{-1}$. The point of $P$ and $Q$ is that they are a change of basis such that in the new basis, $A$ acts diagonally.



            We want to compute the image of $A$, or equivalently, the image of $QDP^{-1}$.



            First, I claim that $im(A) = im(QD)$ and this is because $P$ is invertible.




            Let $y in im(A)$. Then $y = Ax = QDP^{-1}$ for some $x$. So $y = QD(P^{-1}x)$ is in the image of $QD$. Next, let $y in im(QD)$. Then $y = QDx$ for some $x$. Since $P$ (and also $P^{-1}$) is invertible, there must be some $x'$ such that $x = P^{-1}x'$ (namely: $x' = Px$). Then $y = QDP^{-1}x' = Ax' in im{A}$.




            The general rule here is that if $A = BC$ and $C$ is invertible, then $im(A) = im(B)$.



            Next, given any matrix, the image of that matrix is the same as the column space.




            To demonstrate, let $B$ have columns $v_1, dots, v_n$ and let $x = (x_1,dots,x_n)$. Then
            $$ Bx = begin{pmatrix} v_1 & cdots & v_n end{pmatrix} begin{pmatrix} x_1 \ vdots \ x_n end{pmatrix} = x_1v_1 + cdots + x_nv_n in sp{v_1,dots,v_n}$$
            And conversely, any element $x_1v_1 + cdots + x_n v_n in sp{v_1,dots,v_n}$ can be written as $Bx$ where $x = (x_1,dots,x_n)$.




            So what we have shown is that $im(A) = im(QD) = sp{text{columns of $QD$}}$.



            Now the last step is what I said near the beginning: $P$ and $Q$ represent a change of basis. So the columns of $Q$ are a basis for $mathbb{Z}^3$ and the columns of $P$ are a basis for $mathbb{Z}^4$. (In fact, the same is true for $P^{-1}, Q^{-1}$ as well as $P^T$ and $Q^T$ or, more generally, any invertible matrix.)



            So the columns of $Q$ are a basis for $mathbb{Z^3}$ and the (non-zero) columns of $QD$ are a basis for $im(A)$. Then it's just a matter of understanding how diagonal matrices act on other matrices. Multiplying by a diagonal matrix on the right multiplies the columns by the corresponding diagonal element. Multiplying by a diagonal matrix on the left multiplies the rows by the corresponding diagonal element.



            This is why $QD$ is obtained from $Q$ by multiplying the columns by $-1, -2$, and $2$ respectively.






            share|cite|improve this answer









            $endgroup$


















              3












              $begingroup$

              $DeclareMathOperator{im}{Im}DeclareMathOperator{sp}{Span}require{AMScd}$First, let us understand where all the maps are going in the Smith normal form:



              begin{CD}
              mathbb{Z}^4 @>A>> mathbb{Z}^3\
              @APAA @AAQA \ mathbb{Z}^4 @>>D> mathbb{Z}^3
              end{CD}



              $P$ and $Q$ are isomorphisms (invertible), $D$ is diagonal and $A = QDP^{-1}$. The point of $P$ and $Q$ is that they are a change of basis such that in the new basis, $A$ acts diagonally.



              We want to compute the image of $A$, or equivalently, the image of $QDP^{-1}$.



              First, I claim that $im(A) = im(QD)$ and this is because $P$ is invertible.




              Let $y in im(A)$. Then $y = Ax = QDP^{-1}$ for some $x$. So $y = QD(P^{-1}x)$ is in the image of $QD$. Next, let $y in im(QD)$. Then $y = QDx$ for some $x$. Since $P$ (and also $P^{-1}$) is invertible, there must be some $x'$ such that $x = P^{-1}x'$ (namely: $x' = Px$). Then $y = QDP^{-1}x' = Ax' in im{A}$.




              The general rule here is that if $A = BC$ and $C$ is invertible, then $im(A) = im(B)$.



              Next, given any matrix, the image of that matrix is the same as the column space.




              To demonstrate, let $B$ have columns $v_1, dots, v_n$ and let $x = (x_1,dots,x_n)$. Then
              $$ Bx = begin{pmatrix} v_1 & cdots & v_n end{pmatrix} begin{pmatrix} x_1 \ vdots \ x_n end{pmatrix} = x_1v_1 + cdots + x_nv_n in sp{v_1,dots,v_n}$$
              And conversely, any element $x_1v_1 + cdots + x_n v_n in sp{v_1,dots,v_n}$ can be written as $Bx$ where $x = (x_1,dots,x_n)$.




              So what we have shown is that $im(A) = im(QD) = sp{text{columns of $QD$}}$.



              Now the last step is what I said near the beginning: $P$ and $Q$ represent a change of basis. So the columns of $Q$ are a basis for $mathbb{Z}^3$ and the columns of $P$ are a basis for $mathbb{Z}^4$. (In fact, the same is true for $P^{-1}, Q^{-1}$ as well as $P^T$ and $Q^T$ or, more generally, any invertible matrix.)



              So the columns of $Q$ are a basis for $mathbb{Z^3}$ and the (non-zero) columns of $QD$ are a basis for $im(A)$. Then it's just a matter of understanding how diagonal matrices act on other matrices. Multiplying by a diagonal matrix on the right multiplies the columns by the corresponding diagonal element. Multiplying by a diagonal matrix on the left multiplies the rows by the corresponding diagonal element.



              This is why $QD$ is obtained from $Q$ by multiplying the columns by $-1, -2$, and $2$ respectively.






              share|cite|improve this answer









              $endgroup$
















                3












                3








                3





                $begingroup$

                $DeclareMathOperator{im}{Im}DeclareMathOperator{sp}{Span}require{AMScd}$First, let us understand where all the maps are going in the Smith normal form:



                begin{CD}
                mathbb{Z}^4 @>A>> mathbb{Z}^3\
                @APAA @AAQA \ mathbb{Z}^4 @>>D> mathbb{Z}^3
                end{CD}



                $P$ and $Q$ are isomorphisms (invertible), $D$ is diagonal and $A = QDP^{-1}$. The point of $P$ and $Q$ is that they are a change of basis such that in the new basis, $A$ acts diagonally.



                We want to compute the image of $A$, or equivalently, the image of $QDP^{-1}$.



                First, I claim that $im(A) = im(QD)$ and this is because $P$ is invertible.




                Let $y in im(A)$. Then $y = Ax = QDP^{-1}$ for some $x$. So $y = QD(P^{-1}x)$ is in the image of $QD$. Next, let $y in im(QD)$. Then $y = QDx$ for some $x$. Since $P$ (and also $P^{-1}$) is invertible, there must be some $x'$ such that $x = P^{-1}x'$ (namely: $x' = Px$). Then $y = QDP^{-1}x' = Ax' in im{A}$.




                The general rule here is that if $A = BC$ and $C$ is invertible, then $im(A) = im(B)$.



                Next, given any matrix, the image of that matrix is the same as the column space.




                To demonstrate, let $B$ have columns $v_1, dots, v_n$ and let $x = (x_1,dots,x_n)$. Then
                $$ Bx = begin{pmatrix} v_1 & cdots & v_n end{pmatrix} begin{pmatrix} x_1 \ vdots \ x_n end{pmatrix} = x_1v_1 + cdots + x_nv_n in sp{v_1,dots,v_n}$$
                And conversely, any element $x_1v_1 + cdots + x_n v_n in sp{v_1,dots,v_n}$ can be written as $Bx$ where $x = (x_1,dots,x_n)$.




                So what we have shown is that $im(A) = im(QD) = sp{text{columns of $QD$}}$.



                Now the last step is what I said near the beginning: $P$ and $Q$ represent a change of basis. So the columns of $Q$ are a basis for $mathbb{Z}^3$ and the columns of $P$ are a basis for $mathbb{Z}^4$. (In fact, the same is true for $P^{-1}, Q^{-1}$ as well as $P^T$ and $Q^T$ or, more generally, any invertible matrix.)



                So the columns of $Q$ are a basis for $mathbb{Z^3}$ and the (non-zero) columns of $QD$ are a basis for $im(A)$. Then it's just a matter of understanding how diagonal matrices act on other matrices. Multiplying by a diagonal matrix on the right multiplies the columns by the corresponding diagonal element. Multiplying by a diagonal matrix on the left multiplies the rows by the corresponding diagonal element.



                This is why $QD$ is obtained from $Q$ by multiplying the columns by $-1, -2$, and $2$ respectively.






                share|cite|improve this answer









                $endgroup$



                $DeclareMathOperator{im}{Im}DeclareMathOperator{sp}{Span}require{AMScd}$First, let us understand where all the maps are going in the Smith normal form:



                begin{CD}
                mathbb{Z}^4 @>A>> mathbb{Z}^3\
                @APAA @AAQA \ mathbb{Z}^4 @>>D> mathbb{Z}^3
                end{CD}



                $P$ and $Q$ are isomorphisms (invertible), $D$ is diagonal and $A = QDP^{-1}$. The point of $P$ and $Q$ is that they are a change of basis such that in the new basis, $A$ acts diagonally.



                We want to compute the image of $A$, or equivalently, the image of $QDP^{-1}$.



                First, I claim that $im(A) = im(QD)$ and this is because $P$ is invertible.




                Let $y in im(A)$. Then $y = Ax = QDP^{-1}$ for some $x$. So $y = QD(P^{-1}x)$ is in the image of $QD$. Next, let $y in im(QD)$. Then $y = QDx$ for some $x$. Since $P$ (and also $P^{-1}$) is invertible, there must be some $x'$ such that $x = P^{-1}x'$ (namely: $x' = Px$). Then $y = QDP^{-1}x' = Ax' in im{A}$.




                The general rule here is that if $A = BC$ and $C$ is invertible, then $im(A) = im(B)$.



                Next, given any matrix, the image of that matrix is the same as the column space.




                To demonstrate, let $B$ have columns $v_1, dots, v_n$ and let $x = (x_1,dots,x_n)$. Then
                $$ Bx = begin{pmatrix} v_1 & cdots & v_n end{pmatrix} begin{pmatrix} x_1 \ vdots \ x_n end{pmatrix} = x_1v_1 + cdots + x_nv_n in sp{v_1,dots,v_n}$$
                And conversely, any element $x_1v_1 + cdots + x_n v_n in sp{v_1,dots,v_n}$ can be written as $Bx$ where $x = (x_1,dots,x_n)$.




                So what we have shown is that $im(A) = im(QD) = sp{text{columns of $QD$}}$.



                Now the last step is what I said near the beginning: $P$ and $Q$ represent a change of basis. So the columns of $Q$ are a basis for $mathbb{Z}^3$ and the columns of $P$ are a basis for $mathbb{Z}^4$. (In fact, the same is true for $P^{-1}, Q^{-1}$ as well as $P^T$ and $Q^T$ or, more generally, any invertible matrix.)



                So the columns of $Q$ are a basis for $mathbb{Z^3}$ and the (non-zero) columns of $QD$ are a basis for $im(A)$. Then it's just a matter of understanding how diagonal matrices act on other matrices. Multiplying by a diagonal matrix on the right multiplies the columns by the corresponding diagonal element. Multiplying by a diagonal matrix on the left multiplies the rows by the corresponding diagonal element.



                This is why $QD$ is obtained from $Q$ by multiplying the columns by $-1, -2$, and $2$ respectively.







                share|cite|improve this answer












                share|cite|improve this answer



                share|cite|improve this answer










                answered Jan 12 at 20:06









                Trevor GunnTrevor Gunn

                14.4k32046




                14.4k32046























                    0












                    $begingroup$

                    I don't know if you are follow the same course as mine but I had this exact exercice this semester with D. Testerman. Here is the solution :



                    First Part



                    Second Part






                    share|cite|improve this answer









                    $endgroup$













                    • $begingroup$
                      Yes I do and actually i dont understand this solution. That is why i m asking for another one facepalm ^~^''
                      $endgroup$
                      – Marine Galantin
                      Jan 12 at 19:22










                    • $begingroup$
                      @Marine What parts do you understand or not understand? Do you understand how $D$ is computed? How $Q$ is computed? Why $operatorname{Im}(f_A) = operatorname{Im}(f_{QD})$? Why the columns of $Q$ are a basis of $mathbb{Z}^{3}$? Why the columns of $QD$ are a basis of $operatorname{Im}(f_A)$?
                      $endgroup$
                      – Trevor Gunn
                      Jan 12 at 19:31












                    • $begingroup$
                      The only thing I understand is : how you do the smith normal form, and how you fins the matrices P and Q. The rest is meaningless for me...
                      $endgroup$
                      – Marine Galantin
                      Jan 12 at 19:34








                    • 1




                      $begingroup$
                      @MarineGalantin Ah sure no problems, good luck for Wednesday!
                      $endgroup$
                      – NotAbelianGroup
                      Jan 12 at 21:15
















                    0












                    $begingroup$

                    I don't know if you are follow the same course as mine but I had this exact exercice this semester with D. Testerman. Here is the solution :



                    First Part



                    Second Part






                    share|cite|improve this answer









                    $endgroup$













                    • $begingroup$
                      Yes I do and actually i dont understand this solution. That is why i m asking for another one facepalm ^~^''
                      $endgroup$
                      – Marine Galantin
                      Jan 12 at 19:22










                    • $begingroup$
                      @Marine What parts do you understand or not understand? Do you understand how $D$ is computed? How $Q$ is computed? Why $operatorname{Im}(f_A) = operatorname{Im}(f_{QD})$? Why the columns of $Q$ are a basis of $mathbb{Z}^{3}$? Why the columns of $QD$ are a basis of $operatorname{Im}(f_A)$?
                      $endgroup$
                      – Trevor Gunn
                      Jan 12 at 19:31












                    • $begingroup$
                      The only thing I understand is : how you do the smith normal form, and how you fins the matrices P and Q. The rest is meaningless for me...
                      $endgroup$
                      – Marine Galantin
                      Jan 12 at 19:34








                    • 1




                      $begingroup$
                      @MarineGalantin Ah sure no problems, good luck for Wednesday!
                      $endgroup$
                      – NotAbelianGroup
                      Jan 12 at 21:15














                    0












                    0








                    0





                    $begingroup$

                    I don't know if you are follow the same course as mine but I had this exact exercice this semester with D. Testerman. Here is the solution :



                    First Part



                    Second Part






                    share|cite|improve this answer









                    $endgroup$



                    I don't know if you are follow the same course as mine but I had this exact exercice this semester with D. Testerman. Here is the solution :



                    First Part



                    Second Part







                    share|cite|improve this answer












                    share|cite|improve this answer



                    share|cite|improve this answer










                    answered Jan 12 at 19:03









                    NotAbelianGroupNotAbelianGroup

                    15511




                    15511












                    • $begingroup$
                      Yes I do and actually i dont understand this solution. That is why i m asking for another one facepalm ^~^''
                      $endgroup$
                      – Marine Galantin
                      Jan 12 at 19:22










                    • $begingroup$
                      @Marine What parts do you understand or not understand? Do you understand how $D$ is computed? How $Q$ is computed? Why $operatorname{Im}(f_A) = operatorname{Im}(f_{QD})$? Why the columns of $Q$ are a basis of $mathbb{Z}^{3}$? Why the columns of $QD$ are a basis of $operatorname{Im}(f_A)$?
                      $endgroup$
                      – Trevor Gunn
                      Jan 12 at 19:31












                    • $begingroup$
                      The only thing I understand is : how you do the smith normal form, and how you fins the matrices P and Q. The rest is meaningless for me...
                      $endgroup$
                      – Marine Galantin
                      Jan 12 at 19:34








                    • 1




                      $begingroup$
                      @MarineGalantin Ah sure no problems, good luck for Wednesday!
                      $endgroup$
                      – NotAbelianGroup
                      Jan 12 at 21:15


















                    • $begingroup$
                      Yes I do and actually i dont understand this solution. That is why i m asking for another one facepalm ^~^''
                      $endgroup$
                      – Marine Galantin
                      Jan 12 at 19:22










                    • $begingroup$
                      @Marine What parts do you understand or not understand? Do you understand how $D$ is computed? How $Q$ is computed? Why $operatorname{Im}(f_A) = operatorname{Im}(f_{QD})$? Why the columns of $Q$ are a basis of $mathbb{Z}^{3}$? Why the columns of $QD$ are a basis of $operatorname{Im}(f_A)$?
                      $endgroup$
                      – Trevor Gunn
                      Jan 12 at 19:31












                    • $begingroup$
                      The only thing I understand is : how you do the smith normal form, and how you fins the matrices P and Q. The rest is meaningless for me...
                      $endgroup$
                      – Marine Galantin
                      Jan 12 at 19:34








                    • 1




                      $begingroup$
                      @MarineGalantin Ah sure no problems, good luck for Wednesday!
                      $endgroup$
                      – NotAbelianGroup
                      Jan 12 at 21:15
















                    $begingroup$
                    Yes I do and actually i dont understand this solution. That is why i m asking for another one facepalm ^~^''
                    $endgroup$
                    – Marine Galantin
                    Jan 12 at 19:22




                    $begingroup$
                    Yes I do and actually i dont understand this solution. That is why i m asking for another one facepalm ^~^''
                    $endgroup$
                    – Marine Galantin
                    Jan 12 at 19:22












                    $begingroup$
                    @Marine What parts do you understand or not understand? Do you understand how $D$ is computed? How $Q$ is computed? Why $operatorname{Im}(f_A) = operatorname{Im}(f_{QD})$? Why the columns of $Q$ are a basis of $mathbb{Z}^{3}$? Why the columns of $QD$ are a basis of $operatorname{Im}(f_A)$?
                    $endgroup$
                    – Trevor Gunn
                    Jan 12 at 19:31






                    $begingroup$
                    @Marine What parts do you understand or not understand? Do you understand how $D$ is computed? How $Q$ is computed? Why $operatorname{Im}(f_A) = operatorname{Im}(f_{QD})$? Why the columns of $Q$ are a basis of $mathbb{Z}^{3}$? Why the columns of $QD$ are a basis of $operatorname{Im}(f_A)$?
                    $endgroup$
                    – Trevor Gunn
                    Jan 12 at 19:31














                    $begingroup$
                    The only thing I understand is : how you do the smith normal form, and how you fins the matrices P and Q. The rest is meaningless for me...
                    $endgroup$
                    – Marine Galantin
                    Jan 12 at 19:34






                    $begingroup$
                    The only thing I understand is : how you do the smith normal form, and how you fins the matrices P and Q. The rest is meaningless for me...
                    $endgroup$
                    – Marine Galantin
                    Jan 12 at 19:34






                    1




                    1




                    $begingroup$
                    @MarineGalantin Ah sure no problems, good luck for Wednesday!
                    $endgroup$
                    – NotAbelianGroup
                    Jan 12 at 21:15




                    $begingroup$
                    @MarineGalantin Ah sure no problems, good luck for Wednesday!
                    $endgroup$
                    – NotAbelianGroup
                    Jan 12 at 21:15











                    0












                    $begingroup$

                    This took me six elementary column matrices, the 4 by 4 square matrix has determinant $1.$ Actually, I combined some steps, so it might be more reasonable to indicate the square matrix as $R = R_1 R_2R_3R_4R_5R_6R_7 R_8,$ this is the order when using column operations rather than the more familiar row operations.



                    $$
                    left(
                    begin{array}{rrrr}
                    2& 5& -1& 2 \
                    -2& -16& -4& 4 \
                    -2& -2& 0& 6 \
                    end{array}
                    right)
                    left(
                    begin{array}{rrrr}
                    1 &-3& -10 & -56 \
                    0 &1 & 3 & 17 \
                    1 &-3 & -9 &-53 \
                    0& -1 & -2 & -13 \
                    end{array}
                    right) =
                    left(
                    begin{array}{rrrr}
                    1 & 0 &0& 0 \
                    -6 &-2& 0& 0 \
                    -2 &-2& 2 & 0 \
                    end{array}
                    right)
                    $$






                    share|cite|improve this answer









                    $endgroup$













                    • $begingroup$
                      Thank you for the help. But then?
                      $endgroup$
                      – Marine Galantin
                      Jan 12 at 19:24










                    • $begingroup$
                      @MarineGalantin The nonzero columns of the 3 by 4 matrix on the right give an integral basis for the image, which is what you said you wanted.
                      $endgroup$
                      – Will Jagy
                      Jan 12 at 19:28










                    • $begingroup$
                      Okay and how do you obtain it, did you just reduced the matrix?
                      $endgroup$
                      – Marine Galantin
                      Jan 12 at 19:29










                    • $begingroup$
                      @MarineGalantin experience is best. Can you find an integral matrix $T$ with determinant $1,$ three by three, so that $TAR$ is in Smith form? This $T$ will be the product of two or three elementary integer matrices, for row operations the order will be $T = T_3 T_2 T_1$
                      $endgroup$
                      – Will Jagy
                      Jan 12 at 19:35










                    • $begingroup$
                      Im sorry I don't understand exactly what you re saying. Anyways, if that s what you mean, I know that any integral matrix can be written in it s smith form. This afterwards gives me a decomposition $Q^{-1} AP = D $, is it your $TAR$?
                      $endgroup$
                      – Marine Galantin
                      Jan 12 at 19:37


















                    0












                    $begingroup$

                    This took me six elementary column matrices, the 4 by 4 square matrix has determinant $1.$ Actually, I combined some steps, so it might be more reasonable to indicate the square matrix as $R = R_1 R_2R_3R_4R_5R_6R_7 R_8,$ this is the order when using column operations rather than the more familiar row operations.



                    $$
                    left(
                    begin{array}{rrrr}
                    2& 5& -1& 2 \
                    -2& -16& -4& 4 \
                    -2& -2& 0& 6 \
                    end{array}
                    right)
                    left(
                    begin{array}{rrrr}
                    1 &-3& -10 & -56 \
                    0 &1 & 3 & 17 \
                    1 &-3 & -9 &-53 \
                    0& -1 & -2 & -13 \
                    end{array}
                    right) =
                    left(
                    begin{array}{rrrr}
                    1 & 0 &0& 0 \
                    -6 &-2& 0& 0 \
                    -2 &-2& 2 & 0 \
                    end{array}
                    right)
                    $$






                    share|cite|improve this answer









                    $endgroup$













                    • $begingroup$
                      Thank you for the help. But then?
                      $endgroup$
                      – Marine Galantin
                      Jan 12 at 19:24










                    • $begingroup$
                      @MarineGalantin The nonzero columns of the 3 by 4 matrix on the right give an integral basis for the image, which is what you said you wanted.
                      $endgroup$
                      – Will Jagy
                      Jan 12 at 19:28










                    • $begingroup$
                      Okay and how do you obtain it, did you just reduced the matrix?
                      $endgroup$
                      – Marine Galantin
                      Jan 12 at 19:29










                    • $begingroup$
                      @MarineGalantin experience is best. Can you find an integral matrix $T$ with determinant $1,$ three by three, so that $TAR$ is in Smith form? This $T$ will be the product of two or three elementary integer matrices, for row operations the order will be $T = T_3 T_2 T_1$
                      $endgroup$
                      – Will Jagy
                      Jan 12 at 19:35










                    • $begingroup$
                      Im sorry I don't understand exactly what you re saying. Anyways, if that s what you mean, I know that any integral matrix can be written in it s smith form. This afterwards gives me a decomposition $Q^{-1} AP = D $, is it your $TAR$?
                      $endgroup$
                      – Marine Galantin
                      Jan 12 at 19:37
















                    0












                    0








                    0





                    $begingroup$

                    This took me six elementary column matrices, the 4 by 4 square matrix has determinant $1.$ Actually, I combined some steps, so it might be more reasonable to indicate the square matrix as $R = R_1 R_2R_3R_4R_5R_6R_7 R_8,$ this is the order when using column operations rather than the more familiar row operations.



                    $$
                    left(
                    begin{array}{rrrr}
                    2& 5& -1& 2 \
                    -2& -16& -4& 4 \
                    -2& -2& 0& 6 \
                    end{array}
                    right)
                    left(
                    begin{array}{rrrr}
                    1 &-3& -10 & -56 \
                    0 &1 & 3 & 17 \
                    1 &-3 & -9 &-53 \
                    0& -1 & -2 & -13 \
                    end{array}
                    right) =
                    left(
                    begin{array}{rrrr}
                    1 & 0 &0& 0 \
                    -6 &-2& 0& 0 \
                    -2 &-2& 2 & 0 \
                    end{array}
                    right)
                    $$






                    share|cite|improve this answer









                    $endgroup$



                    This took me six elementary column matrices, the 4 by 4 square matrix has determinant $1.$ Actually, I combined some steps, so it might be more reasonable to indicate the square matrix as $R = R_1 R_2R_3R_4R_5R_6R_7 R_8,$ this is the order when using column operations rather than the more familiar row operations.



                    $$
                    left(
                    begin{array}{rrrr}
                    2& 5& -1& 2 \
                    -2& -16& -4& 4 \
                    -2& -2& 0& 6 \
                    end{array}
                    right)
                    left(
                    begin{array}{rrrr}
                    1 &-3& -10 & -56 \
                    0 &1 & 3 & 17 \
                    1 &-3 & -9 &-53 \
                    0& -1 & -2 & -13 \
                    end{array}
                    right) =
                    left(
                    begin{array}{rrrr}
                    1 & 0 &0& 0 \
                    -6 &-2& 0& 0 \
                    -2 &-2& 2 & 0 \
                    end{array}
                    right)
                    $$







                    share|cite|improve this answer












                    share|cite|improve this answer



                    share|cite|improve this answer










                    answered Jan 12 at 19:16









                    Will JagyWill Jagy

                    103k5101200




                    103k5101200












                    • $begingroup$
                      Thank you for the help. But then?
                      $endgroup$
                      – Marine Galantin
                      Jan 12 at 19:24










                    • $begingroup$
                      @MarineGalantin The nonzero columns of the 3 by 4 matrix on the right give an integral basis for the image, which is what you said you wanted.
                      $endgroup$
                      – Will Jagy
                      Jan 12 at 19:28










                    • $begingroup$
                      Okay and how do you obtain it, did you just reduced the matrix?
                      $endgroup$
                      – Marine Galantin
                      Jan 12 at 19:29










                    • $begingroup$
                      @MarineGalantin experience is best. Can you find an integral matrix $T$ with determinant $1,$ three by three, so that $TAR$ is in Smith form? This $T$ will be the product of two or three elementary integer matrices, for row operations the order will be $T = T_3 T_2 T_1$
                      $endgroup$
                      – Will Jagy
                      Jan 12 at 19:35










                    • $begingroup$
                      Im sorry I don't understand exactly what you re saying. Anyways, if that s what you mean, I know that any integral matrix can be written in it s smith form. This afterwards gives me a decomposition $Q^{-1} AP = D $, is it your $TAR$?
                      $endgroup$
                      – Marine Galantin
                      Jan 12 at 19:37




















                    • $begingroup$
                      Thank you for the help. But then?
                      $endgroup$
                      – Marine Galantin
                      Jan 12 at 19:24










                    • $begingroup$
                      @MarineGalantin The nonzero columns of the 3 by 4 matrix on the right give an integral basis for the image, which is what you said you wanted.
                      $endgroup$
                      – Will Jagy
                      Jan 12 at 19:28










                    • $begingroup$
                      Okay and how do you obtain it, did you just reduced the matrix?
                      $endgroup$
                      – Marine Galantin
                      Jan 12 at 19:29










                    • $begingroup$
                      @MarineGalantin experience is best. Can you find an integral matrix $T$ with determinant $1,$ three by three, so that $TAR$ is in Smith form? This $T$ will be the product of two or three elementary integer matrices, for row operations the order will be $T = T_3 T_2 T_1$
                      $endgroup$
                      – Will Jagy
                      Jan 12 at 19:35










                    • $begingroup$
                      Im sorry I don't understand exactly what you re saying. Anyways, if that s what you mean, I know that any integral matrix can be written in it s smith form. This afterwards gives me a decomposition $Q^{-1} AP = D $, is it your $TAR$?
                      $endgroup$
                      – Marine Galantin
                      Jan 12 at 19:37


















                    $begingroup$
                    Thank you for the help. But then?
                    $endgroup$
                    – Marine Galantin
                    Jan 12 at 19:24




                    $begingroup$
                    Thank you for the help. But then?
                    $endgroup$
                    – Marine Galantin
                    Jan 12 at 19:24












                    $begingroup$
                    @MarineGalantin The nonzero columns of the 3 by 4 matrix on the right give an integral basis for the image, which is what you said you wanted.
                    $endgroup$
                    – Will Jagy
                    Jan 12 at 19:28




                    $begingroup$
                    @MarineGalantin The nonzero columns of the 3 by 4 matrix on the right give an integral basis for the image, which is what you said you wanted.
                    $endgroup$
                    – Will Jagy
                    Jan 12 at 19:28












                    $begingroup$
                    Okay and how do you obtain it, did you just reduced the matrix?
                    $endgroup$
                    – Marine Galantin
                    Jan 12 at 19:29




                    $begingroup$
                    Okay and how do you obtain it, did you just reduced the matrix?
                    $endgroup$
                    – Marine Galantin
                    Jan 12 at 19:29












                    $begingroup$
                    @MarineGalantin experience is best. Can you find an integral matrix $T$ with determinant $1,$ three by three, so that $TAR$ is in Smith form? This $T$ will be the product of two or three elementary integer matrices, for row operations the order will be $T = T_3 T_2 T_1$
                    $endgroup$
                    – Will Jagy
                    Jan 12 at 19:35




                    $begingroup$
                    @MarineGalantin experience is best. Can you find an integral matrix $T$ with determinant $1,$ three by three, so that $TAR$ is in Smith form? This $T$ will be the product of two or three elementary integer matrices, for row operations the order will be $T = T_3 T_2 T_1$
                    $endgroup$
                    – Will Jagy
                    Jan 12 at 19:35












                    $begingroup$
                    Im sorry I don't understand exactly what you re saying. Anyways, if that s what you mean, I know that any integral matrix can be written in it s smith form. This afterwards gives me a decomposition $Q^{-1} AP = D $, is it your $TAR$?
                    $endgroup$
                    – Marine Galantin
                    Jan 12 at 19:37






                    $begingroup$
                    Im sorry I don't understand exactly what you re saying. Anyways, if that s what you mean, I know that any integral matrix can be written in it s smith form. This afterwards gives me a decomposition $Q^{-1} AP = D $, is it your $TAR$?
                    $endgroup$
                    – Marine Galantin
                    Jan 12 at 19:37




















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