Compute area of a sphere through a Dirac delta












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I've been having issues with integrating with a Dirac delta. To compute the area of a sphere centered at $(0,0,0)$ it seems to work just fine:



$$int_{0}^{2pi}{int_{0}^{pi}{int_{0}^{infty}{delta(r-rho)r^2sintheta, dr},dtheta},dphi} = 4pirho^2$$



Now I will take the same sphere but offset by $(0,0,rho)$, that is: $x^2 + y^2 + (z-rho)^2 = rho^2$. Going to spherical coordinates yields: $r^2cos^2phisin^2theta + r^2sin^2phisin^2theta + (rcostheta-rho)^2 = rho^2$, which yields: $r(r-2rhocostheta)=0$, and we can express the sphere in spherical coordinates as: $r(theta) = 2rhocostheta, theta in [0,pi/2], phiin[0,2pi]$.
Integrating yields:
$$int_{0}^{2pi}{int_{0}^{frac{pi}{2}}{int_{0}^{infty}{delta(r-2rhocostheta)r^2sintheta, dr},dtheta},dphi} = frac{8pirho^2}{3}$$



Now this is not right clearly. The only reason I can think of has to do something with properties of the Dirac delta I am unaware of. Note that I have not studied measure theory. I need the Dirac delta and not a surface integral because I will be using this to compute transformations of probability density functions which I will need to write through a Dirac delta.



Edit: References covering this for engineers/computer science students are welcome.



Edit 2:
Taking into account David Holden's answer I came up with the following fact which must hold (I hope it's correct):
$$int_{V}{delta(f(x)) ,dx} = int_{S = {x|f(x) =0}}{,dA}$$



Edit 3:
I found some more information on the subject:
Impulse functions over curves and surfaces
Properties_in_n_dimensions
Surface area from indicator function
Property of Dirac delta function in $mathbb{R}^n$
Does the coarea formula hold for delta-function?



I believe the issue was that whenever I offset the sphere the Dirac delta changed such that $delta(f(r)) rightarrow delta(g(r,theta))$ and $g$ was then a non-trivial mapping (so it's not the one-dimensional dirac delta I am used to anymore). Based on the first article I believe that I can rewrite it as a surface Dirac delta $delta(g(r,theta)) = delta_S(r,theta)$ which yields the surface integral giving a correct result. The other threads and wikipedia state that I should have a normalization by the magnitude of the gradient. I think I am missing an important piece since for the result to be correct this normalization factor should cancel out with something. More precisely:
$$int_V{delta(r-2rhocostheta)r^2sintheta ,dr,dtheta,dphi} = int_S{frac{,dsigma}{sqrt{r^2+rho^2-2rrhocostheta}}}$$
The only idea I have is that somehow the normalization factor will pop out of the $,dsigma$. No idea though since it's supposed to be a 'Minkowski content measure' which is way over my head as a computer science student.



To add to this I would also like to be able to solve the same problem with a heaviside function (for integrating the volume of the offset ball). I am unsure whether similar considerations apply there, however if I integrate it, the result seems correct. I still want to make sure this is valid for other volumes also (maybe it's just a coincidence like the sphere centered at $(0,0,0)$). So I would be grateful if somebody with more knowledge on geometric measure theory could clarify all of the points.










share|cite|improve this question











$endgroup$












  • $begingroup$
    @Bernard I can't understand what was edited in the integrals. Can you elaborate for future reference?
    $endgroup$
    – lightxbulb
    Jan 23 at 0:22






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    Dirac is a surname, so it has an initial capital. Also I added unbreakable thin spaces ( code: ,) in front of the differentials.
    $endgroup$
    – Bernard
    Jan 23 at 0:28








  • 1




    $begingroup$
    Related: math.stackexchange.com/questions/1864255/…
    $endgroup$
    – leonbloy
    Jan 23 at 1:38










  • $begingroup$
    $8 pi rho^2/3$ is the correct value for the given integral, it's just a consequence of $int_{mathbb R} delta(x - a) phi(x) dx = phi(a)$. However, the correct relation between the volume and the surface integrals is $$int_{mathbb R^n} delta(f(mathbf x)) ,|nabla f(mathbf x)| ,dmathbf x = int_{f(mathbf x) = 0} dA.$$
    $endgroup$
    – Maxim
    Jan 23 at 13:26








  • 1




    $begingroup$
    $$int_{mathbb R^3} delta(x^2 + y^2 + (z - rho)^2 - rho^2) ,|nabla(x^2 + y^2 + (z - rho)^2 - rho^2)| ,dx dy dz = \ 2 pi int_0^{pi/2} int_0^infty delta(r (r - 2 rho cos theta)) ,2 sqrt{r^2 + rho^2 - 2 rho r cos theta} ;r^2 sin theta ,dr dtheta.$$ Note that the factor $r$ inside the delta function cannot be ignored and the gradient in spherical coordinates is not $(partial_r f, partial_theta f, partial_phi f)$ (which is why your Edit 3 cannot be correct). Now if you evaluate this as an iterated integral, you'll get $4 pi rho^2$.
    $endgroup$
    – Maxim
    Jan 24 at 18:27
















6












$begingroup$


I've been having issues with integrating with a Dirac delta. To compute the area of a sphere centered at $(0,0,0)$ it seems to work just fine:



$$int_{0}^{2pi}{int_{0}^{pi}{int_{0}^{infty}{delta(r-rho)r^2sintheta, dr},dtheta},dphi} = 4pirho^2$$



Now I will take the same sphere but offset by $(0,0,rho)$, that is: $x^2 + y^2 + (z-rho)^2 = rho^2$. Going to spherical coordinates yields: $r^2cos^2phisin^2theta + r^2sin^2phisin^2theta + (rcostheta-rho)^2 = rho^2$, which yields: $r(r-2rhocostheta)=0$, and we can express the sphere in spherical coordinates as: $r(theta) = 2rhocostheta, theta in [0,pi/2], phiin[0,2pi]$.
Integrating yields:
$$int_{0}^{2pi}{int_{0}^{frac{pi}{2}}{int_{0}^{infty}{delta(r-2rhocostheta)r^2sintheta, dr},dtheta},dphi} = frac{8pirho^2}{3}$$



Now this is not right clearly. The only reason I can think of has to do something with properties of the Dirac delta I am unaware of. Note that I have not studied measure theory. I need the Dirac delta and not a surface integral because I will be using this to compute transformations of probability density functions which I will need to write through a Dirac delta.



Edit: References covering this for engineers/computer science students are welcome.



Edit 2:
Taking into account David Holden's answer I came up with the following fact which must hold (I hope it's correct):
$$int_{V}{delta(f(x)) ,dx} = int_{S = {x|f(x) =0}}{,dA}$$



Edit 3:
I found some more information on the subject:
Impulse functions over curves and surfaces
Properties_in_n_dimensions
Surface area from indicator function
Property of Dirac delta function in $mathbb{R}^n$
Does the coarea formula hold for delta-function?



I believe the issue was that whenever I offset the sphere the Dirac delta changed such that $delta(f(r)) rightarrow delta(g(r,theta))$ and $g$ was then a non-trivial mapping (so it's not the one-dimensional dirac delta I am used to anymore). Based on the first article I believe that I can rewrite it as a surface Dirac delta $delta(g(r,theta)) = delta_S(r,theta)$ which yields the surface integral giving a correct result. The other threads and wikipedia state that I should have a normalization by the magnitude of the gradient. I think I am missing an important piece since for the result to be correct this normalization factor should cancel out with something. More precisely:
$$int_V{delta(r-2rhocostheta)r^2sintheta ,dr,dtheta,dphi} = int_S{frac{,dsigma}{sqrt{r^2+rho^2-2rrhocostheta}}}$$
The only idea I have is that somehow the normalization factor will pop out of the $,dsigma$. No idea though since it's supposed to be a 'Minkowski content measure' which is way over my head as a computer science student.



To add to this I would also like to be able to solve the same problem with a heaviside function (for integrating the volume of the offset ball). I am unsure whether similar considerations apply there, however if I integrate it, the result seems correct. I still want to make sure this is valid for other volumes also (maybe it's just a coincidence like the sphere centered at $(0,0,0)$). So I would be grateful if somebody with more knowledge on geometric measure theory could clarify all of the points.










share|cite|improve this question











$endgroup$












  • $begingroup$
    @Bernard I can't understand what was edited in the integrals. Can you elaborate for future reference?
    $endgroup$
    – lightxbulb
    Jan 23 at 0:22






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    Dirac is a surname, so it has an initial capital. Also I added unbreakable thin spaces ( code: ,) in front of the differentials.
    $endgroup$
    – Bernard
    Jan 23 at 0:28








  • 1




    $begingroup$
    Related: math.stackexchange.com/questions/1864255/…
    $endgroup$
    – leonbloy
    Jan 23 at 1:38










  • $begingroup$
    $8 pi rho^2/3$ is the correct value for the given integral, it's just a consequence of $int_{mathbb R} delta(x - a) phi(x) dx = phi(a)$. However, the correct relation between the volume and the surface integrals is $$int_{mathbb R^n} delta(f(mathbf x)) ,|nabla f(mathbf x)| ,dmathbf x = int_{f(mathbf x) = 0} dA.$$
    $endgroup$
    – Maxim
    Jan 23 at 13:26








  • 1




    $begingroup$
    $$int_{mathbb R^3} delta(x^2 + y^2 + (z - rho)^2 - rho^2) ,|nabla(x^2 + y^2 + (z - rho)^2 - rho^2)| ,dx dy dz = \ 2 pi int_0^{pi/2} int_0^infty delta(r (r - 2 rho cos theta)) ,2 sqrt{r^2 + rho^2 - 2 rho r cos theta} ;r^2 sin theta ,dr dtheta.$$ Note that the factor $r$ inside the delta function cannot be ignored and the gradient in spherical coordinates is not $(partial_r f, partial_theta f, partial_phi f)$ (which is why your Edit 3 cannot be correct). Now if you evaluate this as an iterated integral, you'll get $4 pi rho^2$.
    $endgroup$
    – Maxim
    Jan 24 at 18:27














6












6








6


1



$begingroup$


I've been having issues with integrating with a Dirac delta. To compute the area of a sphere centered at $(0,0,0)$ it seems to work just fine:



$$int_{0}^{2pi}{int_{0}^{pi}{int_{0}^{infty}{delta(r-rho)r^2sintheta, dr},dtheta},dphi} = 4pirho^2$$



Now I will take the same sphere but offset by $(0,0,rho)$, that is: $x^2 + y^2 + (z-rho)^2 = rho^2$. Going to spherical coordinates yields: $r^2cos^2phisin^2theta + r^2sin^2phisin^2theta + (rcostheta-rho)^2 = rho^2$, which yields: $r(r-2rhocostheta)=0$, and we can express the sphere in spherical coordinates as: $r(theta) = 2rhocostheta, theta in [0,pi/2], phiin[0,2pi]$.
Integrating yields:
$$int_{0}^{2pi}{int_{0}^{frac{pi}{2}}{int_{0}^{infty}{delta(r-2rhocostheta)r^2sintheta, dr},dtheta},dphi} = frac{8pirho^2}{3}$$



Now this is not right clearly. The only reason I can think of has to do something with properties of the Dirac delta I am unaware of. Note that I have not studied measure theory. I need the Dirac delta and not a surface integral because I will be using this to compute transformations of probability density functions which I will need to write through a Dirac delta.



Edit: References covering this for engineers/computer science students are welcome.



Edit 2:
Taking into account David Holden's answer I came up with the following fact which must hold (I hope it's correct):
$$int_{V}{delta(f(x)) ,dx} = int_{S = {x|f(x) =0}}{,dA}$$



Edit 3:
I found some more information on the subject:
Impulse functions over curves and surfaces
Properties_in_n_dimensions
Surface area from indicator function
Property of Dirac delta function in $mathbb{R}^n$
Does the coarea formula hold for delta-function?



I believe the issue was that whenever I offset the sphere the Dirac delta changed such that $delta(f(r)) rightarrow delta(g(r,theta))$ and $g$ was then a non-trivial mapping (so it's not the one-dimensional dirac delta I am used to anymore). Based on the first article I believe that I can rewrite it as a surface Dirac delta $delta(g(r,theta)) = delta_S(r,theta)$ which yields the surface integral giving a correct result. The other threads and wikipedia state that I should have a normalization by the magnitude of the gradient. I think I am missing an important piece since for the result to be correct this normalization factor should cancel out with something. More precisely:
$$int_V{delta(r-2rhocostheta)r^2sintheta ,dr,dtheta,dphi} = int_S{frac{,dsigma}{sqrt{r^2+rho^2-2rrhocostheta}}}$$
The only idea I have is that somehow the normalization factor will pop out of the $,dsigma$. No idea though since it's supposed to be a 'Minkowski content measure' which is way over my head as a computer science student.



To add to this I would also like to be able to solve the same problem with a heaviside function (for integrating the volume of the offset ball). I am unsure whether similar considerations apply there, however if I integrate it, the result seems correct. I still want to make sure this is valid for other volumes also (maybe it's just a coincidence like the sphere centered at $(0,0,0)$). So I would be grateful if somebody with more knowledge on geometric measure theory could clarify all of the points.










share|cite|improve this question











$endgroup$




I've been having issues with integrating with a Dirac delta. To compute the area of a sphere centered at $(0,0,0)$ it seems to work just fine:



$$int_{0}^{2pi}{int_{0}^{pi}{int_{0}^{infty}{delta(r-rho)r^2sintheta, dr},dtheta},dphi} = 4pirho^2$$



Now I will take the same sphere but offset by $(0,0,rho)$, that is: $x^2 + y^2 + (z-rho)^2 = rho^2$. Going to spherical coordinates yields: $r^2cos^2phisin^2theta + r^2sin^2phisin^2theta + (rcostheta-rho)^2 = rho^2$, which yields: $r(r-2rhocostheta)=0$, and we can express the sphere in spherical coordinates as: $r(theta) = 2rhocostheta, theta in [0,pi/2], phiin[0,2pi]$.
Integrating yields:
$$int_{0}^{2pi}{int_{0}^{frac{pi}{2}}{int_{0}^{infty}{delta(r-2rhocostheta)r^2sintheta, dr},dtheta},dphi} = frac{8pirho^2}{3}$$



Now this is not right clearly. The only reason I can think of has to do something with properties of the Dirac delta I am unaware of. Note that I have not studied measure theory. I need the Dirac delta and not a surface integral because I will be using this to compute transformations of probability density functions which I will need to write through a Dirac delta.



Edit: References covering this for engineers/computer science students are welcome.



Edit 2:
Taking into account David Holden's answer I came up with the following fact which must hold (I hope it's correct):
$$int_{V}{delta(f(x)) ,dx} = int_{S = {x|f(x) =0}}{,dA}$$



Edit 3:
I found some more information on the subject:
Impulse functions over curves and surfaces
Properties_in_n_dimensions
Surface area from indicator function
Property of Dirac delta function in $mathbb{R}^n$
Does the coarea formula hold for delta-function?



I believe the issue was that whenever I offset the sphere the Dirac delta changed such that $delta(f(r)) rightarrow delta(g(r,theta))$ and $g$ was then a non-trivial mapping (so it's not the one-dimensional dirac delta I am used to anymore). Based on the first article I believe that I can rewrite it as a surface Dirac delta $delta(g(r,theta)) = delta_S(r,theta)$ which yields the surface integral giving a correct result. The other threads and wikipedia state that I should have a normalization by the magnitude of the gradient. I think I am missing an important piece since for the result to be correct this normalization factor should cancel out with something. More precisely:
$$int_V{delta(r-2rhocostheta)r^2sintheta ,dr,dtheta,dphi} = int_S{frac{,dsigma}{sqrt{r^2+rho^2-2rrhocostheta}}}$$
The only idea I have is that somehow the normalization factor will pop out of the $,dsigma$. No idea though since it's supposed to be a 'Minkowski content measure' which is way over my head as a computer science student.



To add to this I would also like to be able to solve the same problem with a heaviside function (for integrating the volume of the offset ball). I am unsure whether similar considerations apply there, however if I integrate it, the result seems correct. I still want to make sure this is valid for other volumes also (maybe it's just a coincidence like the sphere centered at $(0,0,0)$). So I would be grateful if somebody with more knowledge on geometric measure theory could clarify all of the points.







probability multivariable-calculus geometric-measure-theory






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share|cite|improve this question













share|cite|improve this question




share|cite|improve this question








edited Jan 24 at 23:27







lightxbulb

















asked Jan 23 at 0:13









lightxbulblightxbulb

945311




945311












  • $begingroup$
    @Bernard I can't understand what was edited in the integrals. Can you elaborate for future reference?
    $endgroup$
    – lightxbulb
    Jan 23 at 0:22






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    Dirac is a surname, so it has an initial capital. Also I added unbreakable thin spaces ( code: ,) in front of the differentials.
    $endgroup$
    – Bernard
    Jan 23 at 0:28








  • 1




    $begingroup$
    Related: math.stackexchange.com/questions/1864255/…
    $endgroup$
    – leonbloy
    Jan 23 at 1:38










  • $begingroup$
    $8 pi rho^2/3$ is the correct value for the given integral, it's just a consequence of $int_{mathbb R} delta(x - a) phi(x) dx = phi(a)$. However, the correct relation between the volume and the surface integrals is $$int_{mathbb R^n} delta(f(mathbf x)) ,|nabla f(mathbf x)| ,dmathbf x = int_{f(mathbf x) = 0} dA.$$
    $endgroup$
    – Maxim
    Jan 23 at 13:26








  • 1




    $begingroup$
    $$int_{mathbb R^3} delta(x^2 + y^2 + (z - rho)^2 - rho^2) ,|nabla(x^2 + y^2 + (z - rho)^2 - rho^2)| ,dx dy dz = \ 2 pi int_0^{pi/2} int_0^infty delta(r (r - 2 rho cos theta)) ,2 sqrt{r^2 + rho^2 - 2 rho r cos theta} ;r^2 sin theta ,dr dtheta.$$ Note that the factor $r$ inside the delta function cannot be ignored and the gradient in spherical coordinates is not $(partial_r f, partial_theta f, partial_phi f)$ (which is why your Edit 3 cannot be correct). Now if you evaluate this as an iterated integral, you'll get $4 pi rho^2$.
    $endgroup$
    – Maxim
    Jan 24 at 18:27


















  • $begingroup$
    @Bernard I can't understand what was edited in the integrals. Can you elaborate for future reference?
    $endgroup$
    – lightxbulb
    Jan 23 at 0:22






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    Dirac is a surname, so it has an initial capital. Also I added unbreakable thin spaces ( code: ,) in front of the differentials.
    $endgroup$
    – Bernard
    Jan 23 at 0:28








  • 1




    $begingroup$
    Related: math.stackexchange.com/questions/1864255/…
    $endgroup$
    – leonbloy
    Jan 23 at 1:38










  • $begingroup$
    $8 pi rho^2/3$ is the correct value for the given integral, it's just a consequence of $int_{mathbb R} delta(x - a) phi(x) dx = phi(a)$. However, the correct relation between the volume and the surface integrals is $$int_{mathbb R^n} delta(f(mathbf x)) ,|nabla f(mathbf x)| ,dmathbf x = int_{f(mathbf x) = 0} dA.$$
    $endgroup$
    – Maxim
    Jan 23 at 13:26








  • 1




    $begingroup$
    $$int_{mathbb R^3} delta(x^2 + y^2 + (z - rho)^2 - rho^2) ,|nabla(x^2 + y^2 + (z - rho)^2 - rho^2)| ,dx dy dz = \ 2 pi int_0^{pi/2} int_0^infty delta(r (r - 2 rho cos theta)) ,2 sqrt{r^2 + rho^2 - 2 rho r cos theta} ;r^2 sin theta ,dr dtheta.$$ Note that the factor $r$ inside the delta function cannot be ignored and the gradient in spherical coordinates is not $(partial_r f, partial_theta f, partial_phi f)$ (which is why your Edit 3 cannot be correct). Now if you evaluate this as an iterated integral, you'll get $4 pi rho^2$.
    $endgroup$
    – Maxim
    Jan 24 at 18:27
















$begingroup$
@Bernard I can't understand what was edited in the integrals. Can you elaborate for future reference?
$endgroup$
– lightxbulb
Jan 23 at 0:22




$begingroup$
@Bernard I can't understand what was edited in the integrals. Can you elaborate for future reference?
$endgroup$
– lightxbulb
Jan 23 at 0:22




1




1




$begingroup$
Dirac is a surname, so it has an initial capital. Also I added unbreakable thin spaces ( code: ,) in front of the differentials.
$endgroup$
– Bernard
Jan 23 at 0:28






$begingroup$
Dirac is a surname, so it has an initial capital. Also I added unbreakable thin spaces ( code: ,) in front of the differentials.
$endgroup$
– Bernard
Jan 23 at 0:28






1




1




$begingroup$
Related: math.stackexchange.com/questions/1864255/…
$endgroup$
– leonbloy
Jan 23 at 1:38




$begingroup$
Related: math.stackexchange.com/questions/1864255/…
$endgroup$
– leonbloy
Jan 23 at 1:38












$begingroup$
$8 pi rho^2/3$ is the correct value for the given integral, it's just a consequence of $int_{mathbb R} delta(x - a) phi(x) dx = phi(a)$. However, the correct relation between the volume and the surface integrals is $$int_{mathbb R^n} delta(f(mathbf x)) ,|nabla f(mathbf x)| ,dmathbf x = int_{f(mathbf x) = 0} dA.$$
$endgroup$
– Maxim
Jan 23 at 13:26






$begingroup$
$8 pi rho^2/3$ is the correct value for the given integral, it's just a consequence of $int_{mathbb R} delta(x - a) phi(x) dx = phi(a)$. However, the correct relation between the volume and the surface integrals is $$int_{mathbb R^n} delta(f(mathbf x)) ,|nabla f(mathbf x)| ,dmathbf x = int_{f(mathbf x) = 0} dA.$$
$endgroup$
– Maxim
Jan 23 at 13:26






1




1




$begingroup$
$$int_{mathbb R^3} delta(x^2 + y^2 + (z - rho)^2 - rho^2) ,|nabla(x^2 + y^2 + (z - rho)^2 - rho^2)| ,dx dy dz = \ 2 pi int_0^{pi/2} int_0^infty delta(r (r - 2 rho cos theta)) ,2 sqrt{r^2 + rho^2 - 2 rho r cos theta} ;r^2 sin theta ,dr dtheta.$$ Note that the factor $r$ inside the delta function cannot be ignored and the gradient in spherical coordinates is not $(partial_r f, partial_theta f, partial_phi f)$ (which is why your Edit 3 cannot be correct). Now if you evaluate this as an iterated integral, you'll get $4 pi rho^2$.
$endgroup$
– Maxim
Jan 24 at 18:27




$begingroup$
$$int_{mathbb R^3} delta(x^2 + y^2 + (z - rho)^2 - rho^2) ,|nabla(x^2 + y^2 + (z - rho)^2 - rho^2)| ,dx dy dz = \ 2 pi int_0^{pi/2} int_0^infty delta(r (r - 2 rho cos theta)) ,2 sqrt{r^2 + rho^2 - 2 rho r cos theta} ;r^2 sin theta ,dr dtheta.$$ Note that the factor $r$ inside the delta function cannot be ignored and the gradient in spherical coordinates is not $(partial_r f, partial_theta f, partial_phi f)$ (which is why your Edit 3 cannot be correct). Now if you evaluate this as an iterated integral, you'll get $4 pi rho^2$.
$endgroup$
– Maxim
Jan 24 at 18:27










3 Answers
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when you write integrating yields... you may be making an unwarranted assumption about what is the "element of area". a simple geometric approach suggests:



$$
dA = rho d(2theta) rho sin 2theta dphi = 2 rho^2 sin 2theta dtheta dphi
$$



note that with $dA$ thus defined:



$$
int_0^{2pi}int_0^{frac{pi}2} dA = 4pirho^2
$$






share|cite|improve this answer









$endgroup$













  • $begingroup$
    I am not changing the parametrisation nor am I integrating over area though. I know very well how to compute the area as a surface integral. My point is that I want the factors to pop out from the Dirac delta's change. Basically I want this explained in terms of the Dirac delta and what am I doing wrong with it (in the general case not only for sphere). I've seen a property in 1D where the absolute value of derivative pops out of the Dirac delta when applying a transformation $delta(f(x))$. I would like the multidimensional case, preferably with an example applied to my problem.
    $endgroup$
    – lightxbulb
    Jan 23 at 2:09





















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$begingroup$

I finally figured out why I am getting a 'wrong' result. As expected I cannot substitute with the delta directly since it's a composition with a submersion. However the following equality holds from the coarea formula:
$$int_{R^n}{f(x)delta(g(x)),dx} = int_{g^{-1}(0)}{frac{f(x)}{|nabla g(x)|},dsigma(x)}$$
Where $g:R^nrightarrow R$, $|nabla g(x)|ne 0$, and $dsigma$ is the measure on the surface $g^{-1}(0)$.
Let us consider the non-normalized uniform probability density function on the sphere with center $(0,0,0)$ and radius $rho$ in spherical coordinates: $p_A(x,y,z) = delta(r-rho)r^2sintheta$. Unsurprisingly integrating it yields $4pirho^2$:
$$int_{0}^{2pi}{int_{0}^{pi}{int_{0}^{infty}{delta(r-rho)r^2sintheta,dr},dtheta},dphi} = int_{0}^{2pi}{int_{0}^{pi}{frac{rho^2sintheta}{1},dtheta},dphi} = 4pirho^2$$



Note that the division by $1$ is to emphasize that $|nabla g| = 1$. That is, I have used the coarea formula above even if it may seem unnecessary (but as we'll see later it is actually important for other mappings, and this is simply a special case where we have the standard delta function). Now let us compute the area of the translated sphere. Going to Cartesian coordinates gives us: $p_B(x,y,z) = frac{p_A(r,theta)}{|r^2sintheta|} = delta(sqrt{x^2+y^2+z^2}-rho)$ (we have used the invertible pdf transformation theorem). Translating by $(0,0,rho)$ yields: $p_C(x,y,z) = p_B(x,y,z-rho)$, where the Jacobian of this transformation is $1$. Finally going back to spherical coordinates we have:
$$p_D(r,theta) = delta(sqrt{r^2cos^2phisin^2theta + r^2sin^2phisin^2theta + r^2costheta^2 + rho^2 - 2rrhocostheta}-rho)r^2sintheta = \
= delta(sqrt{r^2+rho^2-2rrhocostheta}-rho)r^2sintheta$$

We compute the gradient of the mapping as: $nabla g(r,theta) = frac{1}{2sqrt{r^2+rho^2-2rhocostheta}}(2r-2rhocostheta, 2frac{r}{r}sintheta,0)$. Finally $|nabla g(r,theta)| = 1$. We may compute $g^{-1}(0) = {(2rhocostheta, theta, phi),theta in [0,frac{pi}{2}], phi in [0,2pi]}$. The surface area element is $dA = 2rho^2sin2theta,dtheta,dphi$. Then finally:
$$int_{0}^{2pi}{int_{0}^{frac{pi}{2}}{int_{0}^{infty}{p_D(r,theta),dr},dtheta},dphi}
= int_{0}^{2pi}{int_{0}^{frac{pi}{2}}{rho^2sin2theta,d2theta},dphi} = 4pirho^2$$



Now let us consider a slightly different variant: $p_A(r) = delta(r^2 - rho^2)r^2sintheta$, $|nabla g(r)| = 2r$
$$int_{0}^{2pi}{int_{0}^{pi}{int_{0}^{infty}{delta(r^2-rho^2)r^2sintheta,dr},dtheta},dphi} = int_{0}^{2pi}{int_{0}^{pi}{frac{rho^2sintheta}{2rho},dtheta},dphi} = 2pirho$$



Rather surprisingly (at least for me) we get a different result, which however for the $delta$ defined as is, is supposedly correct (I believe that the result being $2pirho$ is just a lucky coincidence). So one has to be careful about the mapping.



After transforming to cartesian coordinates, translating and returning to spherical coordinates we get $p_D(r, theta) = delta(r^2-2rhocostheta)r^2sintheta$, $|nabla g(r,theta)| = 2sqrt{r^2+rho^2-2rrhocostheta}$. Using the coarea formula once again:



$$int_{0}^{2pi}{int_{0}^{frac{pi}{2}}{int_{0}^{infty}{p_D(r,theta),dr},dtheta},dphi}
= int_{0}^{2pi}{int_{0}^{frac{pi}{2}}{frac{rho^2sin2theta}{2sqrt{rho^2}},d2theta},dphi} = 2pirho$$



In conclusion, it seems that it is not correct to substitute directly when the delta function is composed with a function different than the identity (or $pm const$). In that specific case the coarea formula has to be used. Additionally we seem to have the relationship $delta_S(x) = delta(g(x))|nabla g(x)|$, where $S=g^{-1}(0)$:



$$int_{R^n}{f(x)delta(g(x))|nabla g(x)|,dx} = int_{R^n}{f(x)delta_S(x),dx} = int_{S}{f(x),dsigma(x)}$$



I very much appreciate the input from Maxim and David Holden, which ultimately helped me figure this out.



Edit: A very interesting read I found later: https://www.mathpages.com/home/kmath663/kmath663.htm
It certainly helps to understand the problem from an intuitive point of view also.






share|cite|improve this answer











$endgroup$





















    1












    $begingroup$

    To summarize the discussion in the comments, the definition of $delta(f)$ is derived from postulating two basic properties: the substitution rule
    $$int_{mathbb R^n} delta(f(mathbf x)) ,phi(mathbf x) ,dmathbf x =
    int_U delta(f(mathbf x(mathbf u))) ,phi(mathbf x(mathbf u))
    left| det D mathbf x(mathbf u) right| dmathbf u$$

    and
    $$int_{mathbb R^n} delta(x_1) ,phi(mathbf x) ,dmathbf x =
    int_{mathbb R^{n - 1}} phi(mathbf x) rvert_{x_1 = 0} ,dx_2 cdots dx_n.$$

    If you try to set
    $$small int delta(f(mathbf x)) dmathbf x =
    int_{f(mathbf x) = 0} dS =
    int_{2 f(mathbf x) = 0} dS =
    int delta(2 f(mathbf x)) dmathbf x,$$

    you violate the first rule. If you try to set
    $$small iint delta(r - f(theta)) phi(r, theta) dr dtheta neq
    int phi(f(theta), theta) dtheta,$$

    you violate the second rule. If you adopt the definition that the rest of the world is using derived from the two stated properties, you get the identity
    $$int_{mathbb R^n} delta(f(mathbf x))
    left| nabla f(mathbf x) right| phi(mathbf x) ,dmathbf x =
    int_{f(mathbf x) = 0} phi(mathbf x) ,dS(mathbf x),$$

    which is formally the same as the coarea formula because both are essentially the same change of variables formula. The first two formulas in your question will in fact be correct, while the last two will be incorrect.






    share|cite|improve this answer









    $endgroup$













    • $begingroup$
      There are some small details, like the coarea formula being more general than the substitution. I think Federer developed it not so long ago too either. But for the problem at hand both work equally well. Thank you for all of the input. After I figured everything out, I found many references of this in physics books, so it certainly helps asking the right question.
      $endgroup$
      – lightxbulb
      Jan 29 at 19:32












    • $begingroup$
      Also what first two formulae are you referring to? The second equality in my question is wrong. All the equalities in my answer should be correct however. @Maxim
      $endgroup$
      – lightxbulb
      Jan 29 at 22:10












    • $begingroup$
      I refer to the formulas $iiint = 4 pi rho^2$ and $iiint = 8 pi rho^2/3$. If you still insist that the second one is wrong, then we haven't made any progress. I specifically tried to explain above why insisting that it should give some other answer is incompatible with the formula you're trying to derive.
      $endgroup$
      – Maxim
      Jan 29 at 22:43










    • $begingroup$
      I am not sure how you managed to integrate that thing. Using the coarea formula the second formula gives you $|nabla f| = sqrt{1 + 4rho^2sin^2theta / r^2}$ in the denominator. And $2rhosin2theta,dtheta,dphi$ in the numerator with integration limits $phi in [0,2pi]$ and $theta in [0,pi/2]$. My issue is really that $r^2$ in the denominator. I am assuming it's supposed to be $r = 2rhocostheta$. But even then I don't think you'll get $8pirho^2/3$.
      $endgroup$
      – lightxbulb
      Jan 30 at 0:33








    • 1




      $begingroup$
      First, $dS = 2 rho^2 sin 2 theta ,dtheta dphi$. Then $$2 pi int_0^{pi/2} frac {2 rho^2 sin 2 theta} {sqrt{1 + frac {4 rho^2 sin^2 theta} {r^2}}} biggrvert_{r = 2 rho cos theta} ,dtheta = frac {8 pi rho^2} 3.$$ But this exercise is completely pointless if you ignore the reason why $$2 pi int_0^{pi/2} int_0^infty delta(r - 2 rho cos theta) ,r^2 sin theta ,dr dtheta = 2 pi int_0^{pi/2} r^2 sin theta rvert_{r = 2 rho cos theta} ,dtheta$$ gives the same result.
      $endgroup$
      – Maxim
      Jan 30 at 23:59











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    3 Answers
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    1












    $begingroup$

    when you write integrating yields... you may be making an unwarranted assumption about what is the "element of area". a simple geometric approach suggests:



    $$
    dA = rho d(2theta) rho sin 2theta dphi = 2 rho^2 sin 2theta dtheta dphi
    $$



    note that with $dA$ thus defined:



    $$
    int_0^{2pi}int_0^{frac{pi}2} dA = 4pirho^2
    $$






    share|cite|improve this answer









    $endgroup$













    • $begingroup$
      I am not changing the parametrisation nor am I integrating over area though. I know very well how to compute the area as a surface integral. My point is that I want the factors to pop out from the Dirac delta's change. Basically I want this explained in terms of the Dirac delta and what am I doing wrong with it (in the general case not only for sphere). I've seen a property in 1D where the absolute value of derivative pops out of the Dirac delta when applying a transformation $delta(f(x))$. I would like the multidimensional case, preferably with an example applied to my problem.
      $endgroup$
      – lightxbulb
      Jan 23 at 2:09


















    1












    $begingroup$

    when you write integrating yields... you may be making an unwarranted assumption about what is the "element of area". a simple geometric approach suggests:



    $$
    dA = rho d(2theta) rho sin 2theta dphi = 2 rho^2 sin 2theta dtheta dphi
    $$



    note that with $dA$ thus defined:



    $$
    int_0^{2pi}int_0^{frac{pi}2} dA = 4pirho^2
    $$






    share|cite|improve this answer









    $endgroup$













    • $begingroup$
      I am not changing the parametrisation nor am I integrating over area though. I know very well how to compute the area as a surface integral. My point is that I want the factors to pop out from the Dirac delta's change. Basically I want this explained in terms of the Dirac delta and what am I doing wrong with it (in the general case not only for sphere). I've seen a property in 1D where the absolute value of derivative pops out of the Dirac delta when applying a transformation $delta(f(x))$. I would like the multidimensional case, preferably with an example applied to my problem.
      $endgroup$
      – lightxbulb
      Jan 23 at 2:09
















    1












    1








    1





    $begingroup$

    when you write integrating yields... you may be making an unwarranted assumption about what is the "element of area". a simple geometric approach suggests:



    $$
    dA = rho d(2theta) rho sin 2theta dphi = 2 rho^2 sin 2theta dtheta dphi
    $$



    note that with $dA$ thus defined:



    $$
    int_0^{2pi}int_0^{frac{pi}2} dA = 4pirho^2
    $$






    share|cite|improve this answer









    $endgroup$



    when you write integrating yields... you may be making an unwarranted assumption about what is the "element of area". a simple geometric approach suggests:



    $$
    dA = rho d(2theta) rho sin 2theta dphi = 2 rho^2 sin 2theta dtheta dphi
    $$



    note that with $dA$ thus defined:



    $$
    int_0^{2pi}int_0^{frac{pi}2} dA = 4pirho^2
    $$







    share|cite|improve this answer












    share|cite|improve this answer



    share|cite|improve this answer










    answered Jan 23 at 1:57









    David HoldenDavid Holden

    14.9k21224




    14.9k21224












    • $begingroup$
      I am not changing the parametrisation nor am I integrating over area though. I know very well how to compute the area as a surface integral. My point is that I want the factors to pop out from the Dirac delta's change. Basically I want this explained in terms of the Dirac delta and what am I doing wrong with it (in the general case not only for sphere). I've seen a property in 1D where the absolute value of derivative pops out of the Dirac delta when applying a transformation $delta(f(x))$. I would like the multidimensional case, preferably with an example applied to my problem.
      $endgroup$
      – lightxbulb
      Jan 23 at 2:09




















    • $begingroup$
      I am not changing the parametrisation nor am I integrating over area though. I know very well how to compute the area as a surface integral. My point is that I want the factors to pop out from the Dirac delta's change. Basically I want this explained in terms of the Dirac delta and what am I doing wrong with it (in the general case not only for sphere). I've seen a property in 1D where the absolute value of derivative pops out of the Dirac delta when applying a transformation $delta(f(x))$. I would like the multidimensional case, preferably with an example applied to my problem.
      $endgroup$
      – lightxbulb
      Jan 23 at 2:09


















    $begingroup$
    I am not changing the parametrisation nor am I integrating over area though. I know very well how to compute the area as a surface integral. My point is that I want the factors to pop out from the Dirac delta's change. Basically I want this explained in terms of the Dirac delta and what am I doing wrong with it (in the general case not only for sphere). I've seen a property in 1D where the absolute value of derivative pops out of the Dirac delta when applying a transformation $delta(f(x))$. I would like the multidimensional case, preferably with an example applied to my problem.
    $endgroup$
    – lightxbulb
    Jan 23 at 2:09






    $begingroup$
    I am not changing the parametrisation nor am I integrating over area though. I know very well how to compute the area as a surface integral. My point is that I want the factors to pop out from the Dirac delta's change. Basically I want this explained in terms of the Dirac delta and what am I doing wrong with it (in the general case not only for sphere). I've seen a property in 1D where the absolute value of derivative pops out of the Dirac delta when applying a transformation $delta(f(x))$. I would like the multidimensional case, preferably with an example applied to my problem.
    $endgroup$
    – lightxbulb
    Jan 23 at 2:09













    1












    $begingroup$

    I finally figured out why I am getting a 'wrong' result. As expected I cannot substitute with the delta directly since it's a composition with a submersion. However the following equality holds from the coarea formula:
    $$int_{R^n}{f(x)delta(g(x)),dx} = int_{g^{-1}(0)}{frac{f(x)}{|nabla g(x)|},dsigma(x)}$$
    Where $g:R^nrightarrow R$, $|nabla g(x)|ne 0$, and $dsigma$ is the measure on the surface $g^{-1}(0)$.
    Let us consider the non-normalized uniform probability density function on the sphere with center $(0,0,0)$ and radius $rho$ in spherical coordinates: $p_A(x,y,z) = delta(r-rho)r^2sintheta$. Unsurprisingly integrating it yields $4pirho^2$:
    $$int_{0}^{2pi}{int_{0}^{pi}{int_{0}^{infty}{delta(r-rho)r^2sintheta,dr},dtheta},dphi} = int_{0}^{2pi}{int_{0}^{pi}{frac{rho^2sintheta}{1},dtheta},dphi} = 4pirho^2$$



    Note that the division by $1$ is to emphasize that $|nabla g| = 1$. That is, I have used the coarea formula above even if it may seem unnecessary (but as we'll see later it is actually important for other mappings, and this is simply a special case where we have the standard delta function). Now let us compute the area of the translated sphere. Going to Cartesian coordinates gives us: $p_B(x,y,z) = frac{p_A(r,theta)}{|r^2sintheta|} = delta(sqrt{x^2+y^2+z^2}-rho)$ (we have used the invertible pdf transformation theorem). Translating by $(0,0,rho)$ yields: $p_C(x,y,z) = p_B(x,y,z-rho)$, where the Jacobian of this transformation is $1$. Finally going back to spherical coordinates we have:
    $$p_D(r,theta) = delta(sqrt{r^2cos^2phisin^2theta + r^2sin^2phisin^2theta + r^2costheta^2 + rho^2 - 2rrhocostheta}-rho)r^2sintheta = \
    = delta(sqrt{r^2+rho^2-2rrhocostheta}-rho)r^2sintheta$$

    We compute the gradient of the mapping as: $nabla g(r,theta) = frac{1}{2sqrt{r^2+rho^2-2rhocostheta}}(2r-2rhocostheta, 2frac{r}{r}sintheta,0)$. Finally $|nabla g(r,theta)| = 1$. We may compute $g^{-1}(0) = {(2rhocostheta, theta, phi),theta in [0,frac{pi}{2}], phi in [0,2pi]}$. The surface area element is $dA = 2rho^2sin2theta,dtheta,dphi$. Then finally:
    $$int_{0}^{2pi}{int_{0}^{frac{pi}{2}}{int_{0}^{infty}{p_D(r,theta),dr},dtheta},dphi}
    = int_{0}^{2pi}{int_{0}^{frac{pi}{2}}{rho^2sin2theta,d2theta},dphi} = 4pirho^2$$



    Now let us consider a slightly different variant: $p_A(r) = delta(r^2 - rho^2)r^2sintheta$, $|nabla g(r)| = 2r$
    $$int_{0}^{2pi}{int_{0}^{pi}{int_{0}^{infty}{delta(r^2-rho^2)r^2sintheta,dr},dtheta},dphi} = int_{0}^{2pi}{int_{0}^{pi}{frac{rho^2sintheta}{2rho},dtheta},dphi} = 2pirho$$



    Rather surprisingly (at least for me) we get a different result, which however for the $delta$ defined as is, is supposedly correct (I believe that the result being $2pirho$ is just a lucky coincidence). So one has to be careful about the mapping.



    After transforming to cartesian coordinates, translating and returning to spherical coordinates we get $p_D(r, theta) = delta(r^2-2rhocostheta)r^2sintheta$, $|nabla g(r,theta)| = 2sqrt{r^2+rho^2-2rrhocostheta}$. Using the coarea formula once again:



    $$int_{0}^{2pi}{int_{0}^{frac{pi}{2}}{int_{0}^{infty}{p_D(r,theta),dr},dtheta},dphi}
    = int_{0}^{2pi}{int_{0}^{frac{pi}{2}}{frac{rho^2sin2theta}{2sqrt{rho^2}},d2theta},dphi} = 2pirho$$



    In conclusion, it seems that it is not correct to substitute directly when the delta function is composed with a function different than the identity (or $pm const$). In that specific case the coarea formula has to be used. Additionally we seem to have the relationship $delta_S(x) = delta(g(x))|nabla g(x)|$, where $S=g^{-1}(0)$:



    $$int_{R^n}{f(x)delta(g(x))|nabla g(x)|,dx} = int_{R^n}{f(x)delta_S(x),dx} = int_{S}{f(x),dsigma(x)}$$



    I very much appreciate the input from Maxim and David Holden, which ultimately helped me figure this out.



    Edit: A very interesting read I found later: https://www.mathpages.com/home/kmath663/kmath663.htm
    It certainly helps to understand the problem from an intuitive point of view also.






    share|cite|improve this answer











    $endgroup$


















      1












      $begingroup$

      I finally figured out why I am getting a 'wrong' result. As expected I cannot substitute with the delta directly since it's a composition with a submersion. However the following equality holds from the coarea formula:
      $$int_{R^n}{f(x)delta(g(x)),dx} = int_{g^{-1}(0)}{frac{f(x)}{|nabla g(x)|},dsigma(x)}$$
      Where $g:R^nrightarrow R$, $|nabla g(x)|ne 0$, and $dsigma$ is the measure on the surface $g^{-1}(0)$.
      Let us consider the non-normalized uniform probability density function on the sphere with center $(0,0,0)$ and radius $rho$ in spherical coordinates: $p_A(x,y,z) = delta(r-rho)r^2sintheta$. Unsurprisingly integrating it yields $4pirho^2$:
      $$int_{0}^{2pi}{int_{0}^{pi}{int_{0}^{infty}{delta(r-rho)r^2sintheta,dr},dtheta},dphi} = int_{0}^{2pi}{int_{0}^{pi}{frac{rho^2sintheta}{1},dtheta},dphi} = 4pirho^2$$



      Note that the division by $1$ is to emphasize that $|nabla g| = 1$. That is, I have used the coarea formula above even if it may seem unnecessary (but as we'll see later it is actually important for other mappings, and this is simply a special case where we have the standard delta function). Now let us compute the area of the translated sphere. Going to Cartesian coordinates gives us: $p_B(x,y,z) = frac{p_A(r,theta)}{|r^2sintheta|} = delta(sqrt{x^2+y^2+z^2}-rho)$ (we have used the invertible pdf transformation theorem). Translating by $(0,0,rho)$ yields: $p_C(x,y,z) = p_B(x,y,z-rho)$, where the Jacobian of this transformation is $1$. Finally going back to spherical coordinates we have:
      $$p_D(r,theta) = delta(sqrt{r^2cos^2phisin^2theta + r^2sin^2phisin^2theta + r^2costheta^2 + rho^2 - 2rrhocostheta}-rho)r^2sintheta = \
      = delta(sqrt{r^2+rho^2-2rrhocostheta}-rho)r^2sintheta$$

      We compute the gradient of the mapping as: $nabla g(r,theta) = frac{1}{2sqrt{r^2+rho^2-2rhocostheta}}(2r-2rhocostheta, 2frac{r}{r}sintheta,0)$. Finally $|nabla g(r,theta)| = 1$. We may compute $g^{-1}(0) = {(2rhocostheta, theta, phi),theta in [0,frac{pi}{2}], phi in [0,2pi]}$. The surface area element is $dA = 2rho^2sin2theta,dtheta,dphi$. Then finally:
      $$int_{0}^{2pi}{int_{0}^{frac{pi}{2}}{int_{0}^{infty}{p_D(r,theta),dr},dtheta},dphi}
      = int_{0}^{2pi}{int_{0}^{frac{pi}{2}}{rho^2sin2theta,d2theta},dphi} = 4pirho^2$$



      Now let us consider a slightly different variant: $p_A(r) = delta(r^2 - rho^2)r^2sintheta$, $|nabla g(r)| = 2r$
      $$int_{0}^{2pi}{int_{0}^{pi}{int_{0}^{infty}{delta(r^2-rho^2)r^2sintheta,dr},dtheta},dphi} = int_{0}^{2pi}{int_{0}^{pi}{frac{rho^2sintheta}{2rho},dtheta},dphi} = 2pirho$$



      Rather surprisingly (at least for me) we get a different result, which however for the $delta$ defined as is, is supposedly correct (I believe that the result being $2pirho$ is just a lucky coincidence). So one has to be careful about the mapping.



      After transforming to cartesian coordinates, translating and returning to spherical coordinates we get $p_D(r, theta) = delta(r^2-2rhocostheta)r^2sintheta$, $|nabla g(r,theta)| = 2sqrt{r^2+rho^2-2rrhocostheta}$. Using the coarea formula once again:



      $$int_{0}^{2pi}{int_{0}^{frac{pi}{2}}{int_{0}^{infty}{p_D(r,theta),dr},dtheta},dphi}
      = int_{0}^{2pi}{int_{0}^{frac{pi}{2}}{frac{rho^2sin2theta}{2sqrt{rho^2}},d2theta},dphi} = 2pirho$$



      In conclusion, it seems that it is not correct to substitute directly when the delta function is composed with a function different than the identity (or $pm const$). In that specific case the coarea formula has to be used. Additionally we seem to have the relationship $delta_S(x) = delta(g(x))|nabla g(x)|$, where $S=g^{-1}(0)$:



      $$int_{R^n}{f(x)delta(g(x))|nabla g(x)|,dx} = int_{R^n}{f(x)delta_S(x),dx} = int_{S}{f(x),dsigma(x)}$$



      I very much appreciate the input from Maxim and David Holden, which ultimately helped me figure this out.



      Edit: A very interesting read I found later: https://www.mathpages.com/home/kmath663/kmath663.htm
      It certainly helps to understand the problem from an intuitive point of view also.






      share|cite|improve this answer











      $endgroup$
















        1












        1








        1





        $begingroup$

        I finally figured out why I am getting a 'wrong' result. As expected I cannot substitute with the delta directly since it's a composition with a submersion. However the following equality holds from the coarea formula:
        $$int_{R^n}{f(x)delta(g(x)),dx} = int_{g^{-1}(0)}{frac{f(x)}{|nabla g(x)|},dsigma(x)}$$
        Where $g:R^nrightarrow R$, $|nabla g(x)|ne 0$, and $dsigma$ is the measure on the surface $g^{-1}(0)$.
        Let us consider the non-normalized uniform probability density function on the sphere with center $(0,0,0)$ and radius $rho$ in spherical coordinates: $p_A(x,y,z) = delta(r-rho)r^2sintheta$. Unsurprisingly integrating it yields $4pirho^2$:
        $$int_{0}^{2pi}{int_{0}^{pi}{int_{0}^{infty}{delta(r-rho)r^2sintheta,dr},dtheta},dphi} = int_{0}^{2pi}{int_{0}^{pi}{frac{rho^2sintheta}{1},dtheta},dphi} = 4pirho^2$$



        Note that the division by $1$ is to emphasize that $|nabla g| = 1$. That is, I have used the coarea formula above even if it may seem unnecessary (but as we'll see later it is actually important for other mappings, and this is simply a special case where we have the standard delta function). Now let us compute the area of the translated sphere. Going to Cartesian coordinates gives us: $p_B(x,y,z) = frac{p_A(r,theta)}{|r^2sintheta|} = delta(sqrt{x^2+y^2+z^2}-rho)$ (we have used the invertible pdf transformation theorem). Translating by $(0,0,rho)$ yields: $p_C(x,y,z) = p_B(x,y,z-rho)$, where the Jacobian of this transformation is $1$. Finally going back to spherical coordinates we have:
        $$p_D(r,theta) = delta(sqrt{r^2cos^2phisin^2theta + r^2sin^2phisin^2theta + r^2costheta^2 + rho^2 - 2rrhocostheta}-rho)r^2sintheta = \
        = delta(sqrt{r^2+rho^2-2rrhocostheta}-rho)r^2sintheta$$

        We compute the gradient of the mapping as: $nabla g(r,theta) = frac{1}{2sqrt{r^2+rho^2-2rhocostheta}}(2r-2rhocostheta, 2frac{r}{r}sintheta,0)$. Finally $|nabla g(r,theta)| = 1$. We may compute $g^{-1}(0) = {(2rhocostheta, theta, phi),theta in [0,frac{pi}{2}], phi in [0,2pi]}$. The surface area element is $dA = 2rho^2sin2theta,dtheta,dphi$. Then finally:
        $$int_{0}^{2pi}{int_{0}^{frac{pi}{2}}{int_{0}^{infty}{p_D(r,theta),dr},dtheta},dphi}
        = int_{0}^{2pi}{int_{0}^{frac{pi}{2}}{rho^2sin2theta,d2theta},dphi} = 4pirho^2$$



        Now let us consider a slightly different variant: $p_A(r) = delta(r^2 - rho^2)r^2sintheta$, $|nabla g(r)| = 2r$
        $$int_{0}^{2pi}{int_{0}^{pi}{int_{0}^{infty}{delta(r^2-rho^2)r^2sintheta,dr},dtheta},dphi} = int_{0}^{2pi}{int_{0}^{pi}{frac{rho^2sintheta}{2rho},dtheta},dphi} = 2pirho$$



        Rather surprisingly (at least for me) we get a different result, which however for the $delta$ defined as is, is supposedly correct (I believe that the result being $2pirho$ is just a lucky coincidence). So one has to be careful about the mapping.



        After transforming to cartesian coordinates, translating and returning to spherical coordinates we get $p_D(r, theta) = delta(r^2-2rhocostheta)r^2sintheta$, $|nabla g(r,theta)| = 2sqrt{r^2+rho^2-2rrhocostheta}$. Using the coarea formula once again:



        $$int_{0}^{2pi}{int_{0}^{frac{pi}{2}}{int_{0}^{infty}{p_D(r,theta),dr},dtheta},dphi}
        = int_{0}^{2pi}{int_{0}^{frac{pi}{2}}{frac{rho^2sin2theta}{2sqrt{rho^2}},d2theta},dphi} = 2pirho$$



        In conclusion, it seems that it is not correct to substitute directly when the delta function is composed with a function different than the identity (or $pm const$). In that specific case the coarea formula has to be used. Additionally we seem to have the relationship $delta_S(x) = delta(g(x))|nabla g(x)|$, where $S=g^{-1}(0)$:



        $$int_{R^n}{f(x)delta(g(x))|nabla g(x)|,dx} = int_{R^n}{f(x)delta_S(x),dx} = int_{S}{f(x),dsigma(x)}$$



        I very much appreciate the input from Maxim and David Holden, which ultimately helped me figure this out.



        Edit: A very interesting read I found later: https://www.mathpages.com/home/kmath663/kmath663.htm
        It certainly helps to understand the problem from an intuitive point of view also.






        share|cite|improve this answer











        $endgroup$



        I finally figured out why I am getting a 'wrong' result. As expected I cannot substitute with the delta directly since it's a composition with a submersion. However the following equality holds from the coarea formula:
        $$int_{R^n}{f(x)delta(g(x)),dx} = int_{g^{-1}(0)}{frac{f(x)}{|nabla g(x)|},dsigma(x)}$$
        Where $g:R^nrightarrow R$, $|nabla g(x)|ne 0$, and $dsigma$ is the measure on the surface $g^{-1}(0)$.
        Let us consider the non-normalized uniform probability density function on the sphere with center $(0,0,0)$ and radius $rho$ in spherical coordinates: $p_A(x,y,z) = delta(r-rho)r^2sintheta$. Unsurprisingly integrating it yields $4pirho^2$:
        $$int_{0}^{2pi}{int_{0}^{pi}{int_{0}^{infty}{delta(r-rho)r^2sintheta,dr},dtheta},dphi} = int_{0}^{2pi}{int_{0}^{pi}{frac{rho^2sintheta}{1},dtheta},dphi} = 4pirho^2$$



        Note that the division by $1$ is to emphasize that $|nabla g| = 1$. That is, I have used the coarea formula above even if it may seem unnecessary (but as we'll see later it is actually important for other mappings, and this is simply a special case where we have the standard delta function). Now let us compute the area of the translated sphere. Going to Cartesian coordinates gives us: $p_B(x,y,z) = frac{p_A(r,theta)}{|r^2sintheta|} = delta(sqrt{x^2+y^2+z^2}-rho)$ (we have used the invertible pdf transformation theorem). Translating by $(0,0,rho)$ yields: $p_C(x,y,z) = p_B(x,y,z-rho)$, where the Jacobian of this transformation is $1$. Finally going back to spherical coordinates we have:
        $$p_D(r,theta) = delta(sqrt{r^2cos^2phisin^2theta + r^2sin^2phisin^2theta + r^2costheta^2 + rho^2 - 2rrhocostheta}-rho)r^2sintheta = \
        = delta(sqrt{r^2+rho^2-2rrhocostheta}-rho)r^2sintheta$$

        We compute the gradient of the mapping as: $nabla g(r,theta) = frac{1}{2sqrt{r^2+rho^2-2rhocostheta}}(2r-2rhocostheta, 2frac{r}{r}sintheta,0)$. Finally $|nabla g(r,theta)| = 1$. We may compute $g^{-1}(0) = {(2rhocostheta, theta, phi),theta in [0,frac{pi}{2}], phi in [0,2pi]}$. The surface area element is $dA = 2rho^2sin2theta,dtheta,dphi$. Then finally:
        $$int_{0}^{2pi}{int_{0}^{frac{pi}{2}}{int_{0}^{infty}{p_D(r,theta),dr},dtheta},dphi}
        = int_{0}^{2pi}{int_{0}^{frac{pi}{2}}{rho^2sin2theta,d2theta},dphi} = 4pirho^2$$



        Now let us consider a slightly different variant: $p_A(r) = delta(r^2 - rho^2)r^2sintheta$, $|nabla g(r)| = 2r$
        $$int_{0}^{2pi}{int_{0}^{pi}{int_{0}^{infty}{delta(r^2-rho^2)r^2sintheta,dr},dtheta},dphi} = int_{0}^{2pi}{int_{0}^{pi}{frac{rho^2sintheta}{2rho},dtheta},dphi} = 2pirho$$



        Rather surprisingly (at least for me) we get a different result, which however for the $delta$ defined as is, is supposedly correct (I believe that the result being $2pirho$ is just a lucky coincidence). So one has to be careful about the mapping.



        After transforming to cartesian coordinates, translating and returning to spherical coordinates we get $p_D(r, theta) = delta(r^2-2rhocostheta)r^2sintheta$, $|nabla g(r,theta)| = 2sqrt{r^2+rho^2-2rrhocostheta}$. Using the coarea formula once again:



        $$int_{0}^{2pi}{int_{0}^{frac{pi}{2}}{int_{0}^{infty}{p_D(r,theta),dr},dtheta},dphi}
        = int_{0}^{2pi}{int_{0}^{frac{pi}{2}}{frac{rho^2sin2theta}{2sqrt{rho^2}},d2theta},dphi} = 2pirho$$



        In conclusion, it seems that it is not correct to substitute directly when the delta function is composed with a function different than the identity (or $pm const$). In that specific case the coarea formula has to be used. Additionally we seem to have the relationship $delta_S(x) = delta(g(x))|nabla g(x)|$, where $S=g^{-1}(0)$:



        $$int_{R^n}{f(x)delta(g(x))|nabla g(x)|,dx} = int_{R^n}{f(x)delta_S(x),dx} = int_{S}{f(x),dsigma(x)}$$



        I very much appreciate the input from Maxim and David Holden, which ultimately helped me figure this out.



        Edit: A very interesting read I found later: https://www.mathpages.com/home/kmath663/kmath663.htm
        It certainly helps to understand the problem from an intuitive point of view also.







        share|cite|improve this answer














        share|cite|improve this answer



        share|cite|improve this answer








        edited Jan 25 at 17:22

























        answered Jan 25 at 1:20









        lightxbulblightxbulb

        945311




        945311























            1












            $begingroup$

            To summarize the discussion in the comments, the definition of $delta(f)$ is derived from postulating two basic properties: the substitution rule
            $$int_{mathbb R^n} delta(f(mathbf x)) ,phi(mathbf x) ,dmathbf x =
            int_U delta(f(mathbf x(mathbf u))) ,phi(mathbf x(mathbf u))
            left| det D mathbf x(mathbf u) right| dmathbf u$$

            and
            $$int_{mathbb R^n} delta(x_1) ,phi(mathbf x) ,dmathbf x =
            int_{mathbb R^{n - 1}} phi(mathbf x) rvert_{x_1 = 0} ,dx_2 cdots dx_n.$$

            If you try to set
            $$small int delta(f(mathbf x)) dmathbf x =
            int_{f(mathbf x) = 0} dS =
            int_{2 f(mathbf x) = 0} dS =
            int delta(2 f(mathbf x)) dmathbf x,$$

            you violate the first rule. If you try to set
            $$small iint delta(r - f(theta)) phi(r, theta) dr dtheta neq
            int phi(f(theta), theta) dtheta,$$

            you violate the second rule. If you adopt the definition that the rest of the world is using derived from the two stated properties, you get the identity
            $$int_{mathbb R^n} delta(f(mathbf x))
            left| nabla f(mathbf x) right| phi(mathbf x) ,dmathbf x =
            int_{f(mathbf x) = 0} phi(mathbf x) ,dS(mathbf x),$$

            which is formally the same as the coarea formula because both are essentially the same change of variables formula. The first two formulas in your question will in fact be correct, while the last two will be incorrect.






            share|cite|improve this answer









            $endgroup$













            • $begingroup$
              There are some small details, like the coarea formula being more general than the substitution. I think Federer developed it not so long ago too either. But for the problem at hand both work equally well. Thank you for all of the input. After I figured everything out, I found many references of this in physics books, so it certainly helps asking the right question.
              $endgroup$
              – lightxbulb
              Jan 29 at 19:32












            • $begingroup$
              Also what first two formulae are you referring to? The second equality in my question is wrong. All the equalities in my answer should be correct however. @Maxim
              $endgroup$
              – lightxbulb
              Jan 29 at 22:10












            • $begingroup$
              I refer to the formulas $iiint = 4 pi rho^2$ and $iiint = 8 pi rho^2/3$. If you still insist that the second one is wrong, then we haven't made any progress. I specifically tried to explain above why insisting that it should give some other answer is incompatible with the formula you're trying to derive.
              $endgroup$
              – Maxim
              Jan 29 at 22:43










            • $begingroup$
              I am not sure how you managed to integrate that thing. Using the coarea formula the second formula gives you $|nabla f| = sqrt{1 + 4rho^2sin^2theta / r^2}$ in the denominator. And $2rhosin2theta,dtheta,dphi$ in the numerator with integration limits $phi in [0,2pi]$ and $theta in [0,pi/2]$. My issue is really that $r^2$ in the denominator. I am assuming it's supposed to be $r = 2rhocostheta$. But even then I don't think you'll get $8pirho^2/3$.
              $endgroup$
              – lightxbulb
              Jan 30 at 0:33








            • 1




              $begingroup$
              First, $dS = 2 rho^2 sin 2 theta ,dtheta dphi$. Then $$2 pi int_0^{pi/2} frac {2 rho^2 sin 2 theta} {sqrt{1 + frac {4 rho^2 sin^2 theta} {r^2}}} biggrvert_{r = 2 rho cos theta} ,dtheta = frac {8 pi rho^2} 3.$$ But this exercise is completely pointless if you ignore the reason why $$2 pi int_0^{pi/2} int_0^infty delta(r - 2 rho cos theta) ,r^2 sin theta ,dr dtheta = 2 pi int_0^{pi/2} r^2 sin theta rvert_{r = 2 rho cos theta} ,dtheta$$ gives the same result.
              $endgroup$
              – Maxim
              Jan 30 at 23:59
















            1












            $begingroup$

            To summarize the discussion in the comments, the definition of $delta(f)$ is derived from postulating two basic properties: the substitution rule
            $$int_{mathbb R^n} delta(f(mathbf x)) ,phi(mathbf x) ,dmathbf x =
            int_U delta(f(mathbf x(mathbf u))) ,phi(mathbf x(mathbf u))
            left| det D mathbf x(mathbf u) right| dmathbf u$$

            and
            $$int_{mathbb R^n} delta(x_1) ,phi(mathbf x) ,dmathbf x =
            int_{mathbb R^{n - 1}} phi(mathbf x) rvert_{x_1 = 0} ,dx_2 cdots dx_n.$$

            If you try to set
            $$small int delta(f(mathbf x)) dmathbf x =
            int_{f(mathbf x) = 0} dS =
            int_{2 f(mathbf x) = 0} dS =
            int delta(2 f(mathbf x)) dmathbf x,$$

            you violate the first rule. If you try to set
            $$small iint delta(r - f(theta)) phi(r, theta) dr dtheta neq
            int phi(f(theta), theta) dtheta,$$

            you violate the second rule. If you adopt the definition that the rest of the world is using derived from the two stated properties, you get the identity
            $$int_{mathbb R^n} delta(f(mathbf x))
            left| nabla f(mathbf x) right| phi(mathbf x) ,dmathbf x =
            int_{f(mathbf x) = 0} phi(mathbf x) ,dS(mathbf x),$$

            which is formally the same as the coarea formula because both are essentially the same change of variables formula. The first two formulas in your question will in fact be correct, while the last two will be incorrect.






            share|cite|improve this answer









            $endgroup$













            • $begingroup$
              There are some small details, like the coarea formula being more general than the substitution. I think Federer developed it not so long ago too either. But for the problem at hand both work equally well. Thank you for all of the input. After I figured everything out, I found many references of this in physics books, so it certainly helps asking the right question.
              $endgroup$
              – lightxbulb
              Jan 29 at 19:32












            • $begingroup$
              Also what first two formulae are you referring to? The second equality in my question is wrong. All the equalities in my answer should be correct however. @Maxim
              $endgroup$
              – lightxbulb
              Jan 29 at 22:10












            • $begingroup$
              I refer to the formulas $iiint = 4 pi rho^2$ and $iiint = 8 pi rho^2/3$. If you still insist that the second one is wrong, then we haven't made any progress. I specifically tried to explain above why insisting that it should give some other answer is incompatible with the formula you're trying to derive.
              $endgroup$
              – Maxim
              Jan 29 at 22:43










            • $begingroup$
              I am not sure how you managed to integrate that thing. Using the coarea formula the second formula gives you $|nabla f| = sqrt{1 + 4rho^2sin^2theta / r^2}$ in the denominator. And $2rhosin2theta,dtheta,dphi$ in the numerator with integration limits $phi in [0,2pi]$ and $theta in [0,pi/2]$. My issue is really that $r^2$ in the denominator. I am assuming it's supposed to be $r = 2rhocostheta$. But even then I don't think you'll get $8pirho^2/3$.
              $endgroup$
              – lightxbulb
              Jan 30 at 0:33








            • 1




              $begingroup$
              First, $dS = 2 rho^2 sin 2 theta ,dtheta dphi$. Then $$2 pi int_0^{pi/2} frac {2 rho^2 sin 2 theta} {sqrt{1 + frac {4 rho^2 sin^2 theta} {r^2}}} biggrvert_{r = 2 rho cos theta} ,dtheta = frac {8 pi rho^2} 3.$$ But this exercise is completely pointless if you ignore the reason why $$2 pi int_0^{pi/2} int_0^infty delta(r - 2 rho cos theta) ,r^2 sin theta ,dr dtheta = 2 pi int_0^{pi/2} r^2 sin theta rvert_{r = 2 rho cos theta} ,dtheta$$ gives the same result.
              $endgroup$
              – Maxim
              Jan 30 at 23:59














            1












            1








            1





            $begingroup$

            To summarize the discussion in the comments, the definition of $delta(f)$ is derived from postulating two basic properties: the substitution rule
            $$int_{mathbb R^n} delta(f(mathbf x)) ,phi(mathbf x) ,dmathbf x =
            int_U delta(f(mathbf x(mathbf u))) ,phi(mathbf x(mathbf u))
            left| det D mathbf x(mathbf u) right| dmathbf u$$

            and
            $$int_{mathbb R^n} delta(x_1) ,phi(mathbf x) ,dmathbf x =
            int_{mathbb R^{n - 1}} phi(mathbf x) rvert_{x_1 = 0} ,dx_2 cdots dx_n.$$

            If you try to set
            $$small int delta(f(mathbf x)) dmathbf x =
            int_{f(mathbf x) = 0} dS =
            int_{2 f(mathbf x) = 0} dS =
            int delta(2 f(mathbf x)) dmathbf x,$$

            you violate the first rule. If you try to set
            $$small iint delta(r - f(theta)) phi(r, theta) dr dtheta neq
            int phi(f(theta), theta) dtheta,$$

            you violate the second rule. If you adopt the definition that the rest of the world is using derived from the two stated properties, you get the identity
            $$int_{mathbb R^n} delta(f(mathbf x))
            left| nabla f(mathbf x) right| phi(mathbf x) ,dmathbf x =
            int_{f(mathbf x) = 0} phi(mathbf x) ,dS(mathbf x),$$

            which is formally the same as the coarea formula because both are essentially the same change of variables formula. The first two formulas in your question will in fact be correct, while the last two will be incorrect.






            share|cite|improve this answer









            $endgroup$



            To summarize the discussion in the comments, the definition of $delta(f)$ is derived from postulating two basic properties: the substitution rule
            $$int_{mathbb R^n} delta(f(mathbf x)) ,phi(mathbf x) ,dmathbf x =
            int_U delta(f(mathbf x(mathbf u))) ,phi(mathbf x(mathbf u))
            left| det D mathbf x(mathbf u) right| dmathbf u$$

            and
            $$int_{mathbb R^n} delta(x_1) ,phi(mathbf x) ,dmathbf x =
            int_{mathbb R^{n - 1}} phi(mathbf x) rvert_{x_1 = 0} ,dx_2 cdots dx_n.$$

            If you try to set
            $$small int delta(f(mathbf x)) dmathbf x =
            int_{f(mathbf x) = 0} dS =
            int_{2 f(mathbf x) = 0} dS =
            int delta(2 f(mathbf x)) dmathbf x,$$

            you violate the first rule. If you try to set
            $$small iint delta(r - f(theta)) phi(r, theta) dr dtheta neq
            int phi(f(theta), theta) dtheta,$$

            you violate the second rule. If you adopt the definition that the rest of the world is using derived from the two stated properties, you get the identity
            $$int_{mathbb R^n} delta(f(mathbf x))
            left| nabla f(mathbf x) right| phi(mathbf x) ,dmathbf x =
            int_{f(mathbf x) = 0} phi(mathbf x) ,dS(mathbf x),$$

            which is formally the same as the coarea formula because both are essentially the same change of variables formula. The first two formulas in your question will in fact be correct, while the last two will be incorrect.







            share|cite|improve this answer












            share|cite|improve this answer



            share|cite|improve this answer










            answered Jan 29 at 2:13









            MaximMaxim

            5,7231220




            5,7231220












            • $begingroup$
              There are some small details, like the coarea formula being more general than the substitution. I think Federer developed it not so long ago too either. But for the problem at hand both work equally well. Thank you for all of the input. After I figured everything out, I found many references of this in physics books, so it certainly helps asking the right question.
              $endgroup$
              – lightxbulb
              Jan 29 at 19:32












            • $begingroup$
              Also what first two formulae are you referring to? The second equality in my question is wrong. All the equalities in my answer should be correct however. @Maxim
              $endgroup$
              – lightxbulb
              Jan 29 at 22:10












            • $begingroup$
              I refer to the formulas $iiint = 4 pi rho^2$ and $iiint = 8 pi rho^2/3$. If you still insist that the second one is wrong, then we haven't made any progress. I specifically tried to explain above why insisting that it should give some other answer is incompatible with the formula you're trying to derive.
              $endgroup$
              – Maxim
              Jan 29 at 22:43










            • $begingroup$
              I am not sure how you managed to integrate that thing. Using the coarea formula the second formula gives you $|nabla f| = sqrt{1 + 4rho^2sin^2theta / r^2}$ in the denominator. And $2rhosin2theta,dtheta,dphi$ in the numerator with integration limits $phi in [0,2pi]$ and $theta in [0,pi/2]$. My issue is really that $r^2$ in the denominator. I am assuming it's supposed to be $r = 2rhocostheta$. But even then I don't think you'll get $8pirho^2/3$.
              $endgroup$
              – lightxbulb
              Jan 30 at 0:33








            • 1




              $begingroup$
              First, $dS = 2 rho^2 sin 2 theta ,dtheta dphi$. Then $$2 pi int_0^{pi/2} frac {2 rho^2 sin 2 theta} {sqrt{1 + frac {4 rho^2 sin^2 theta} {r^2}}} biggrvert_{r = 2 rho cos theta} ,dtheta = frac {8 pi rho^2} 3.$$ But this exercise is completely pointless if you ignore the reason why $$2 pi int_0^{pi/2} int_0^infty delta(r - 2 rho cos theta) ,r^2 sin theta ,dr dtheta = 2 pi int_0^{pi/2} r^2 sin theta rvert_{r = 2 rho cos theta} ,dtheta$$ gives the same result.
              $endgroup$
              – Maxim
              Jan 30 at 23:59


















            • $begingroup$
              There are some small details, like the coarea formula being more general than the substitution. I think Federer developed it not so long ago too either. But for the problem at hand both work equally well. Thank you for all of the input. After I figured everything out, I found many references of this in physics books, so it certainly helps asking the right question.
              $endgroup$
              – lightxbulb
              Jan 29 at 19:32












            • $begingroup$
              Also what first two formulae are you referring to? The second equality in my question is wrong. All the equalities in my answer should be correct however. @Maxim
              $endgroup$
              – lightxbulb
              Jan 29 at 22:10












            • $begingroup$
              I refer to the formulas $iiint = 4 pi rho^2$ and $iiint = 8 pi rho^2/3$. If you still insist that the second one is wrong, then we haven't made any progress. I specifically tried to explain above why insisting that it should give some other answer is incompatible with the formula you're trying to derive.
              $endgroup$
              – Maxim
              Jan 29 at 22:43










            • $begingroup$
              I am not sure how you managed to integrate that thing. Using the coarea formula the second formula gives you $|nabla f| = sqrt{1 + 4rho^2sin^2theta / r^2}$ in the denominator. And $2rhosin2theta,dtheta,dphi$ in the numerator with integration limits $phi in [0,2pi]$ and $theta in [0,pi/2]$. My issue is really that $r^2$ in the denominator. I am assuming it's supposed to be $r = 2rhocostheta$. But even then I don't think you'll get $8pirho^2/3$.
              $endgroup$
              – lightxbulb
              Jan 30 at 0:33








            • 1




              $begingroup$
              First, $dS = 2 rho^2 sin 2 theta ,dtheta dphi$. Then $$2 pi int_0^{pi/2} frac {2 rho^2 sin 2 theta} {sqrt{1 + frac {4 rho^2 sin^2 theta} {r^2}}} biggrvert_{r = 2 rho cos theta} ,dtheta = frac {8 pi rho^2} 3.$$ But this exercise is completely pointless if you ignore the reason why $$2 pi int_0^{pi/2} int_0^infty delta(r - 2 rho cos theta) ,r^2 sin theta ,dr dtheta = 2 pi int_0^{pi/2} r^2 sin theta rvert_{r = 2 rho cos theta} ,dtheta$$ gives the same result.
              $endgroup$
              – Maxim
              Jan 30 at 23:59
















            $begingroup$
            There are some small details, like the coarea formula being more general than the substitution. I think Federer developed it not so long ago too either. But for the problem at hand both work equally well. Thank you for all of the input. After I figured everything out, I found many references of this in physics books, so it certainly helps asking the right question.
            $endgroup$
            – lightxbulb
            Jan 29 at 19:32






            $begingroup$
            There are some small details, like the coarea formula being more general than the substitution. I think Federer developed it not so long ago too either. But for the problem at hand both work equally well. Thank you for all of the input. After I figured everything out, I found many references of this in physics books, so it certainly helps asking the right question.
            $endgroup$
            – lightxbulb
            Jan 29 at 19:32














            $begingroup$
            Also what first two formulae are you referring to? The second equality in my question is wrong. All the equalities in my answer should be correct however. @Maxim
            $endgroup$
            – lightxbulb
            Jan 29 at 22:10






            $begingroup$
            Also what first two formulae are you referring to? The second equality in my question is wrong. All the equalities in my answer should be correct however. @Maxim
            $endgroup$
            – lightxbulb
            Jan 29 at 22:10














            $begingroup$
            I refer to the formulas $iiint = 4 pi rho^2$ and $iiint = 8 pi rho^2/3$. If you still insist that the second one is wrong, then we haven't made any progress. I specifically tried to explain above why insisting that it should give some other answer is incompatible with the formula you're trying to derive.
            $endgroup$
            – Maxim
            Jan 29 at 22:43




            $begingroup$
            I refer to the formulas $iiint = 4 pi rho^2$ and $iiint = 8 pi rho^2/3$. If you still insist that the second one is wrong, then we haven't made any progress. I specifically tried to explain above why insisting that it should give some other answer is incompatible with the formula you're trying to derive.
            $endgroup$
            – Maxim
            Jan 29 at 22:43












            $begingroup$
            I am not sure how you managed to integrate that thing. Using the coarea formula the second formula gives you $|nabla f| = sqrt{1 + 4rho^2sin^2theta / r^2}$ in the denominator. And $2rhosin2theta,dtheta,dphi$ in the numerator with integration limits $phi in [0,2pi]$ and $theta in [0,pi/2]$. My issue is really that $r^2$ in the denominator. I am assuming it's supposed to be $r = 2rhocostheta$. But even then I don't think you'll get $8pirho^2/3$.
            $endgroup$
            – lightxbulb
            Jan 30 at 0:33






            $begingroup$
            I am not sure how you managed to integrate that thing. Using the coarea formula the second formula gives you $|nabla f| = sqrt{1 + 4rho^2sin^2theta / r^2}$ in the denominator. And $2rhosin2theta,dtheta,dphi$ in the numerator with integration limits $phi in [0,2pi]$ and $theta in [0,pi/2]$. My issue is really that $r^2$ in the denominator. I am assuming it's supposed to be $r = 2rhocostheta$. But even then I don't think you'll get $8pirho^2/3$.
            $endgroup$
            – lightxbulb
            Jan 30 at 0:33






            1




            1




            $begingroup$
            First, $dS = 2 rho^2 sin 2 theta ,dtheta dphi$. Then $$2 pi int_0^{pi/2} frac {2 rho^2 sin 2 theta} {sqrt{1 + frac {4 rho^2 sin^2 theta} {r^2}}} biggrvert_{r = 2 rho cos theta} ,dtheta = frac {8 pi rho^2} 3.$$ But this exercise is completely pointless if you ignore the reason why $$2 pi int_0^{pi/2} int_0^infty delta(r - 2 rho cos theta) ,r^2 sin theta ,dr dtheta = 2 pi int_0^{pi/2} r^2 sin theta rvert_{r = 2 rho cos theta} ,dtheta$$ gives the same result.
            $endgroup$
            – Maxim
            Jan 30 at 23:59




            $begingroup$
            First, $dS = 2 rho^2 sin 2 theta ,dtheta dphi$. Then $$2 pi int_0^{pi/2} frac {2 rho^2 sin 2 theta} {sqrt{1 + frac {4 rho^2 sin^2 theta} {r^2}}} biggrvert_{r = 2 rho cos theta} ,dtheta = frac {8 pi rho^2} 3.$$ But this exercise is completely pointless if you ignore the reason why $$2 pi int_0^{pi/2} int_0^infty delta(r - 2 rho cos theta) ,r^2 sin theta ,dr dtheta = 2 pi int_0^{pi/2} r^2 sin theta rvert_{r = 2 rho cos theta} ,dtheta$$ gives the same result.
            $endgroup$
            – Maxim
            Jan 30 at 23:59


















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