Prove that $|f|_Xleq |f|$ for every $fin C(X)$












2












$begingroup$


Let $X$ be a compact space and let $|.|$ be an algebra norm on $ C(X)$ Show that $|f|_X leq |f|$ for every $fin C(X)$



Could anyone please suggest me how to deal with these questions










share|cite|improve this question











$endgroup$












  • $begingroup$
    Can you tell us a bit more about $X$? Normed space? Topological space?
    $endgroup$
    – mathcounterexamples.net
    Jan 25 at 14:18










  • $begingroup$
    $X$ be a compact space and $(C(X), |.|)$ not necessary Banach space
    $endgroup$
    – user62498
    Jan 25 at 14:35










  • $begingroup$
    I understand that $X$ is a compact space but what is the underlying topology? General topology? Equipped with a norm?
    $endgroup$
    – mathcounterexamples.net
    Jan 25 at 15:08










  • $begingroup$
    @I think $X$ with the norm $|.|$
    $endgroup$
    – user62498
    Jan 25 at 15:14
















2












$begingroup$


Let $X$ be a compact space and let $|.|$ be an algebra norm on $ C(X)$ Show that $|f|_X leq |f|$ for every $fin C(X)$



Could anyone please suggest me how to deal with these questions










share|cite|improve this question











$endgroup$












  • $begingroup$
    Can you tell us a bit more about $X$? Normed space? Topological space?
    $endgroup$
    – mathcounterexamples.net
    Jan 25 at 14:18










  • $begingroup$
    $X$ be a compact space and $(C(X), |.|)$ not necessary Banach space
    $endgroup$
    – user62498
    Jan 25 at 14:35










  • $begingroup$
    I understand that $X$ is a compact space but what is the underlying topology? General topology? Equipped with a norm?
    $endgroup$
    – mathcounterexamples.net
    Jan 25 at 15:08










  • $begingroup$
    @I think $X$ with the norm $|.|$
    $endgroup$
    – user62498
    Jan 25 at 15:14














2












2








2


1



$begingroup$


Let $X$ be a compact space and let $|.|$ be an algebra norm on $ C(X)$ Show that $|f|_X leq |f|$ for every $fin C(X)$



Could anyone please suggest me how to deal with these questions










share|cite|improve this question











$endgroup$




Let $X$ be a compact space and let $|.|$ be an algebra norm on $ C(X)$ Show that $|f|_X leq |f|$ for every $fin C(X)$



Could anyone please suggest me how to deal with these questions







banach-algebras






share|cite|improve this question















share|cite|improve this question













share|cite|improve this question




share|cite|improve this question








edited Jan 25 at 20:19









J. W. Tanner

3,2001320




3,2001320










asked Jan 25 at 13:26









user62498user62498

1,978614




1,978614












  • $begingroup$
    Can you tell us a bit more about $X$? Normed space? Topological space?
    $endgroup$
    – mathcounterexamples.net
    Jan 25 at 14:18










  • $begingroup$
    $X$ be a compact space and $(C(X), |.|)$ not necessary Banach space
    $endgroup$
    – user62498
    Jan 25 at 14:35










  • $begingroup$
    I understand that $X$ is a compact space but what is the underlying topology? General topology? Equipped with a norm?
    $endgroup$
    – mathcounterexamples.net
    Jan 25 at 15:08










  • $begingroup$
    @I think $X$ with the norm $|.|$
    $endgroup$
    – user62498
    Jan 25 at 15:14


















  • $begingroup$
    Can you tell us a bit more about $X$? Normed space? Topological space?
    $endgroup$
    – mathcounterexamples.net
    Jan 25 at 14:18










  • $begingroup$
    $X$ be a compact space and $(C(X), |.|)$ not necessary Banach space
    $endgroup$
    – user62498
    Jan 25 at 14:35










  • $begingroup$
    I understand that $X$ is a compact space but what is the underlying topology? General topology? Equipped with a norm?
    $endgroup$
    – mathcounterexamples.net
    Jan 25 at 15:08










  • $begingroup$
    @I think $X$ with the norm $|.|$
    $endgroup$
    – user62498
    Jan 25 at 15:14
















$begingroup$
Can you tell us a bit more about $X$? Normed space? Topological space?
$endgroup$
– mathcounterexamples.net
Jan 25 at 14:18




$begingroup$
Can you tell us a bit more about $X$? Normed space? Topological space?
$endgroup$
– mathcounterexamples.net
Jan 25 at 14:18












$begingroup$
$X$ be a compact space and $(C(X), |.|)$ not necessary Banach space
$endgroup$
– user62498
Jan 25 at 14:35




$begingroup$
$X$ be a compact space and $(C(X), |.|)$ not necessary Banach space
$endgroup$
– user62498
Jan 25 at 14:35












$begingroup$
I understand that $X$ is a compact space but what is the underlying topology? General topology? Equipped with a norm?
$endgroup$
– mathcounterexamples.net
Jan 25 at 15:08




$begingroup$
I understand that $X$ is a compact space but what is the underlying topology? General topology? Equipped with a norm?
$endgroup$
– mathcounterexamples.net
Jan 25 at 15:08












$begingroup$
@I think $X$ with the norm $|.|$
$endgroup$
– user62498
Jan 25 at 15:14




$begingroup$
@I think $X$ with the norm $|.|$
$endgroup$
– user62498
Jan 25 at 15:14










1 Answer
1






active

oldest

votes


















2












$begingroup$

You should note properly your question. You have a compact set $X$. You have a norm on $C(X)$ : $|f|_X = sup_{x in X} |f(x)|$ Let an another algebra norm $||.||$ on $C(X)$ and, the goal is to show that $||.||geq |.|_X$.
Remark : you can check that $|.|_X$ is also a algebra norm.



A nice analogue of compacts is finite sets (with discrete topology). This avoids topological complications : the max and min occuring are obvious ; it also enable you to have plan to solve the problem in the general case. So let us solve the problem when $X$ is finite.



Then, $C(X)$ is just $mathbf{R}^n$, the product is the product component by component, $|(x_1,..x_n)|_X$ is the max of components, and $||.||$ an algebra norm.



We are in a space of finite dimension, so the norms are equivalent : there exists $lambda>0$ such that :
$frac{1}{lambda}|.|_X leq ||.|| leq lambda |.|_X$



Let $xin mathbf{R}^n$. For $kin mathbf{N}$, consider $|| x^k ||^frac{1}{k}$. We have : $|| x^k ||^frac{1}{k} leq ||x|| $ ($||.||$ is a algebra norm) and $|| x^k ||^frac{1}{k} geq lambda^{-frac{1}{k}} |x|_X $ (it is quite clear that $|.|$ commutes with the elevation to a certain power). So you obtain, by making $krightarrow infty$ ; $|x|_X leq ||x||$ and you have the result.



In the general case, you have two possibilities then to continue this kind of problem:



The first way : find a way to generalize the min and max occuring in the finite case.



Here, it would be nice to show the following conjecture :



Conjecture (?) :
There exist $lambda >0$ and $mu>0$ such that :
$frac{1}{mu} |.|_X leq ||.|| leq lambda |.|_X $



But... Theese inequalities are false (at least when ||.|| is not supposed to be an algebra norm : take $X = [0,1]$, and $||f|| = |f|_X + |f'|_X$) for the majoration, $ ||f|| = int |f|$ for the minoration).



So this way does not look to give results.



The second way, use the finite case to try to make a demonstration.
I suppose here that $K$ is metric.



Then $K$ is separable. So write $K$ as the closure of increasing union of finite set $D_n$, $nin mathbf{N}$. I will note $C(D_n)$ the space of (continuous, where $D_n$ has the discrete topology) functions $D_n rightarrow mathbf{R}$.



You have the induced norm on $C(D_n)$ :
$$|s|_{D_n} = sup_{xin D_n} |f(x)|$$



Take $f_1, .. f_n$ in $C(X)$, and let $F$ the algebra generated by the $f_i$. We suppose that there exists an isomorphism of algebra (this is necessary to use the finite case) $i_F : C(D_n) rightarrow F$.



So you have a norm induced by $||.||$ on $D_n$ :
$$||s||_{D_n, F} = ||i_F(s)||$$



It is by definition an algebra norm (it would not be the case if $i_F$ was just an isomorphism of vector spaces).
By the finite case we have $||s||_{D_n,F} geq |s|_{D_n}$. The idea would be, for any $fin C(X)$, to build $F$ big enough so that it can contain $f$.



But there is a huge problem : when you look at the images of the canonical basis $e_i$ by $i_F$, you see that $i_F(e_i)^2 = i_F (e_i)$, so $i_F (e_i)$ has values in ${0,1}$... So this kind of reasoning might work if $X$ is totally disconnected (nay if $X$ is a discrete space ! ... ), but will be a failure else.



I also tried to study the quantity, which is a priori only pseudo-norm (but, if the result is true, it must be a norm minorated by $|.|_{D_n}$) :



$$||s||_{D_n} = inf_{fin C(X), f|_{D_n} = s} ||f|| $$
This quantity is not infinite, using the fact that a function on a finit set admits an extension on $X$, because $X$ is compact, hence normal, and then it is possible to use Tietze Urysohn's extension theorem.



It is a pseudo-norm as an inf of (non generally algebra)-norms. To see it, consider all the sections of the application restriction $C(X)rightarrow C(D_n)$ which induces linear isomorphisms $i_F : D_n rightarrow F$ where $F$ is a subspace of $C(X)$, and show that the quantity I defined is the infimum of the $||i_F(s)||$.



But it is not obvious at all that it is an algebra (pseudo-)norm... Even if it was so, if is not obvious at all it is a norm. So I did not obtain result.



Conclusion : your question seems not obvious. It is quite hard to have documentation about algebra norms.



I've found a way to build some algebra norms with this lemma :



Lemma : Let $I$ a set. If ||.|| is an algebra norm on $mathbf{R}^I$ and $|.|_i$ an algebra norm on $E_i$ for $iin I$ then there is an algebra norm on $prod_{iin I} E_i$ defined by : $(e_i) rightarrow || (|e_i|_i) ||$



So as algebra norms, you have the max, the subordinate norms, and their compositions... But your result is quite trivial in theese cases (your result is compatible with composition).



For instance, if I try $X = [0,1]$ and :
$||f|| = max_{x,y,z,tin X} ||| begin{pmatrix}
f(x) & f(y) \
f(z) & f(t)
end{pmatrix} |||$
where |||.||| is some subordinate matricial norm, you can just use that the subordinate norm is greater than the max to show the result.



Maybe I am missing something obvious. But I don't see any proof nor counterexample (even if $X$ is not supposed compact).






share|cite|improve this answer











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    $begingroup$

    You should note properly your question. You have a compact set $X$. You have a norm on $C(X)$ : $|f|_X = sup_{x in X} |f(x)|$ Let an another algebra norm $||.||$ on $C(X)$ and, the goal is to show that $||.||geq |.|_X$.
    Remark : you can check that $|.|_X$ is also a algebra norm.



    A nice analogue of compacts is finite sets (with discrete topology). This avoids topological complications : the max and min occuring are obvious ; it also enable you to have plan to solve the problem in the general case. So let us solve the problem when $X$ is finite.



    Then, $C(X)$ is just $mathbf{R}^n$, the product is the product component by component, $|(x_1,..x_n)|_X$ is the max of components, and $||.||$ an algebra norm.



    We are in a space of finite dimension, so the norms are equivalent : there exists $lambda>0$ such that :
    $frac{1}{lambda}|.|_X leq ||.|| leq lambda |.|_X$



    Let $xin mathbf{R}^n$. For $kin mathbf{N}$, consider $|| x^k ||^frac{1}{k}$. We have : $|| x^k ||^frac{1}{k} leq ||x|| $ ($||.||$ is a algebra norm) and $|| x^k ||^frac{1}{k} geq lambda^{-frac{1}{k}} |x|_X $ (it is quite clear that $|.|$ commutes with the elevation to a certain power). So you obtain, by making $krightarrow infty$ ; $|x|_X leq ||x||$ and you have the result.



    In the general case, you have two possibilities then to continue this kind of problem:



    The first way : find a way to generalize the min and max occuring in the finite case.



    Here, it would be nice to show the following conjecture :



    Conjecture (?) :
    There exist $lambda >0$ and $mu>0$ such that :
    $frac{1}{mu} |.|_X leq ||.|| leq lambda |.|_X $



    But... Theese inequalities are false (at least when ||.|| is not supposed to be an algebra norm : take $X = [0,1]$, and $||f|| = |f|_X + |f'|_X$) for the majoration, $ ||f|| = int |f|$ for the minoration).



    So this way does not look to give results.



    The second way, use the finite case to try to make a demonstration.
    I suppose here that $K$ is metric.



    Then $K$ is separable. So write $K$ as the closure of increasing union of finite set $D_n$, $nin mathbf{N}$. I will note $C(D_n)$ the space of (continuous, where $D_n$ has the discrete topology) functions $D_n rightarrow mathbf{R}$.



    You have the induced norm on $C(D_n)$ :
    $$|s|_{D_n} = sup_{xin D_n} |f(x)|$$



    Take $f_1, .. f_n$ in $C(X)$, and let $F$ the algebra generated by the $f_i$. We suppose that there exists an isomorphism of algebra (this is necessary to use the finite case) $i_F : C(D_n) rightarrow F$.



    So you have a norm induced by $||.||$ on $D_n$ :
    $$||s||_{D_n, F} = ||i_F(s)||$$



    It is by definition an algebra norm (it would not be the case if $i_F$ was just an isomorphism of vector spaces).
    By the finite case we have $||s||_{D_n,F} geq |s|_{D_n}$. The idea would be, for any $fin C(X)$, to build $F$ big enough so that it can contain $f$.



    But there is a huge problem : when you look at the images of the canonical basis $e_i$ by $i_F$, you see that $i_F(e_i)^2 = i_F (e_i)$, so $i_F (e_i)$ has values in ${0,1}$... So this kind of reasoning might work if $X$ is totally disconnected (nay if $X$ is a discrete space ! ... ), but will be a failure else.



    I also tried to study the quantity, which is a priori only pseudo-norm (but, if the result is true, it must be a norm minorated by $|.|_{D_n}$) :



    $$||s||_{D_n} = inf_{fin C(X), f|_{D_n} = s} ||f|| $$
    This quantity is not infinite, using the fact that a function on a finit set admits an extension on $X$, because $X$ is compact, hence normal, and then it is possible to use Tietze Urysohn's extension theorem.



    It is a pseudo-norm as an inf of (non generally algebra)-norms. To see it, consider all the sections of the application restriction $C(X)rightarrow C(D_n)$ which induces linear isomorphisms $i_F : D_n rightarrow F$ where $F$ is a subspace of $C(X)$, and show that the quantity I defined is the infimum of the $||i_F(s)||$.



    But it is not obvious at all that it is an algebra (pseudo-)norm... Even if it was so, if is not obvious at all it is a norm. So I did not obtain result.



    Conclusion : your question seems not obvious. It is quite hard to have documentation about algebra norms.



    I've found a way to build some algebra norms with this lemma :



    Lemma : Let $I$ a set. If ||.|| is an algebra norm on $mathbf{R}^I$ and $|.|_i$ an algebra norm on $E_i$ for $iin I$ then there is an algebra norm on $prod_{iin I} E_i$ defined by : $(e_i) rightarrow || (|e_i|_i) ||$



    So as algebra norms, you have the max, the subordinate norms, and their compositions... But your result is quite trivial in theese cases (your result is compatible with composition).



    For instance, if I try $X = [0,1]$ and :
    $||f|| = max_{x,y,z,tin X} ||| begin{pmatrix}
    f(x) & f(y) \
    f(z) & f(t)
    end{pmatrix} |||$
    where |||.||| is some subordinate matricial norm, you can just use that the subordinate norm is greater than the max to show the result.



    Maybe I am missing something obvious. But I don't see any proof nor counterexample (even if $X$ is not supposed compact).






    share|cite|improve this answer











    $endgroup$


















      2












      $begingroup$

      You should note properly your question. You have a compact set $X$. You have a norm on $C(X)$ : $|f|_X = sup_{x in X} |f(x)|$ Let an another algebra norm $||.||$ on $C(X)$ and, the goal is to show that $||.||geq |.|_X$.
      Remark : you can check that $|.|_X$ is also a algebra norm.



      A nice analogue of compacts is finite sets (with discrete topology). This avoids topological complications : the max and min occuring are obvious ; it also enable you to have plan to solve the problem in the general case. So let us solve the problem when $X$ is finite.



      Then, $C(X)$ is just $mathbf{R}^n$, the product is the product component by component, $|(x_1,..x_n)|_X$ is the max of components, and $||.||$ an algebra norm.



      We are in a space of finite dimension, so the norms are equivalent : there exists $lambda>0$ such that :
      $frac{1}{lambda}|.|_X leq ||.|| leq lambda |.|_X$



      Let $xin mathbf{R}^n$. For $kin mathbf{N}$, consider $|| x^k ||^frac{1}{k}$. We have : $|| x^k ||^frac{1}{k} leq ||x|| $ ($||.||$ is a algebra norm) and $|| x^k ||^frac{1}{k} geq lambda^{-frac{1}{k}} |x|_X $ (it is quite clear that $|.|$ commutes with the elevation to a certain power). So you obtain, by making $krightarrow infty$ ; $|x|_X leq ||x||$ and you have the result.



      In the general case, you have two possibilities then to continue this kind of problem:



      The first way : find a way to generalize the min and max occuring in the finite case.



      Here, it would be nice to show the following conjecture :



      Conjecture (?) :
      There exist $lambda >0$ and $mu>0$ such that :
      $frac{1}{mu} |.|_X leq ||.|| leq lambda |.|_X $



      But... Theese inequalities are false (at least when ||.|| is not supposed to be an algebra norm : take $X = [0,1]$, and $||f|| = |f|_X + |f'|_X$) for the majoration, $ ||f|| = int |f|$ for the minoration).



      So this way does not look to give results.



      The second way, use the finite case to try to make a demonstration.
      I suppose here that $K$ is metric.



      Then $K$ is separable. So write $K$ as the closure of increasing union of finite set $D_n$, $nin mathbf{N}$. I will note $C(D_n)$ the space of (continuous, where $D_n$ has the discrete topology) functions $D_n rightarrow mathbf{R}$.



      You have the induced norm on $C(D_n)$ :
      $$|s|_{D_n} = sup_{xin D_n} |f(x)|$$



      Take $f_1, .. f_n$ in $C(X)$, and let $F$ the algebra generated by the $f_i$. We suppose that there exists an isomorphism of algebra (this is necessary to use the finite case) $i_F : C(D_n) rightarrow F$.



      So you have a norm induced by $||.||$ on $D_n$ :
      $$||s||_{D_n, F} = ||i_F(s)||$$



      It is by definition an algebra norm (it would not be the case if $i_F$ was just an isomorphism of vector spaces).
      By the finite case we have $||s||_{D_n,F} geq |s|_{D_n}$. The idea would be, for any $fin C(X)$, to build $F$ big enough so that it can contain $f$.



      But there is a huge problem : when you look at the images of the canonical basis $e_i$ by $i_F$, you see that $i_F(e_i)^2 = i_F (e_i)$, so $i_F (e_i)$ has values in ${0,1}$... So this kind of reasoning might work if $X$ is totally disconnected (nay if $X$ is a discrete space ! ... ), but will be a failure else.



      I also tried to study the quantity, which is a priori only pseudo-norm (but, if the result is true, it must be a norm minorated by $|.|_{D_n}$) :



      $$||s||_{D_n} = inf_{fin C(X), f|_{D_n} = s} ||f|| $$
      This quantity is not infinite, using the fact that a function on a finit set admits an extension on $X$, because $X$ is compact, hence normal, and then it is possible to use Tietze Urysohn's extension theorem.



      It is a pseudo-norm as an inf of (non generally algebra)-norms. To see it, consider all the sections of the application restriction $C(X)rightarrow C(D_n)$ which induces linear isomorphisms $i_F : D_n rightarrow F$ where $F$ is a subspace of $C(X)$, and show that the quantity I defined is the infimum of the $||i_F(s)||$.



      But it is not obvious at all that it is an algebra (pseudo-)norm... Even if it was so, if is not obvious at all it is a norm. So I did not obtain result.



      Conclusion : your question seems not obvious. It is quite hard to have documentation about algebra norms.



      I've found a way to build some algebra norms with this lemma :



      Lemma : Let $I$ a set. If ||.|| is an algebra norm on $mathbf{R}^I$ and $|.|_i$ an algebra norm on $E_i$ for $iin I$ then there is an algebra norm on $prod_{iin I} E_i$ defined by : $(e_i) rightarrow || (|e_i|_i) ||$



      So as algebra norms, you have the max, the subordinate norms, and their compositions... But your result is quite trivial in theese cases (your result is compatible with composition).



      For instance, if I try $X = [0,1]$ and :
      $||f|| = max_{x,y,z,tin X} ||| begin{pmatrix}
      f(x) & f(y) \
      f(z) & f(t)
      end{pmatrix} |||$
      where |||.||| is some subordinate matricial norm, you can just use that the subordinate norm is greater than the max to show the result.



      Maybe I am missing something obvious. But I don't see any proof nor counterexample (even if $X$ is not supposed compact).






      share|cite|improve this answer











      $endgroup$
















        2












        2








        2





        $begingroup$

        You should note properly your question. You have a compact set $X$. You have a norm on $C(X)$ : $|f|_X = sup_{x in X} |f(x)|$ Let an another algebra norm $||.||$ on $C(X)$ and, the goal is to show that $||.||geq |.|_X$.
        Remark : you can check that $|.|_X$ is also a algebra norm.



        A nice analogue of compacts is finite sets (with discrete topology). This avoids topological complications : the max and min occuring are obvious ; it also enable you to have plan to solve the problem in the general case. So let us solve the problem when $X$ is finite.



        Then, $C(X)$ is just $mathbf{R}^n$, the product is the product component by component, $|(x_1,..x_n)|_X$ is the max of components, and $||.||$ an algebra norm.



        We are in a space of finite dimension, so the norms are equivalent : there exists $lambda>0$ such that :
        $frac{1}{lambda}|.|_X leq ||.|| leq lambda |.|_X$



        Let $xin mathbf{R}^n$. For $kin mathbf{N}$, consider $|| x^k ||^frac{1}{k}$. We have : $|| x^k ||^frac{1}{k} leq ||x|| $ ($||.||$ is a algebra norm) and $|| x^k ||^frac{1}{k} geq lambda^{-frac{1}{k}} |x|_X $ (it is quite clear that $|.|$ commutes with the elevation to a certain power). So you obtain, by making $krightarrow infty$ ; $|x|_X leq ||x||$ and you have the result.



        In the general case, you have two possibilities then to continue this kind of problem:



        The first way : find a way to generalize the min and max occuring in the finite case.



        Here, it would be nice to show the following conjecture :



        Conjecture (?) :
        There exist $lambda >0$ and $mu>0$ such that :
        $frac{1}{mu} |.|_X leq ||.|| leq lambda |.|_X $



        But... Theese inequalities are false (at least when ||.|| is not supposed to be an algebra norm : take $X = [0,1]$, and $||f|| = |f|_X + |f'|_X$) for the majoration, $ ||f|| = int |f|$ for the minoration).



        So this way does not look to give results.



        The second way, use the finite case to try to make a demonstration.
        I suppose here that $K$ is metric.



        Then $K$ is separable. So write $K$ as the closure of increasing union of finite set $D_n$, $nin mathbf{N}$. I will note $C(D_n)$ the space of (continuous, where $D_n$ has the discrete topology) functions $D_n rightarrow mathbf{R}$.



        You have the induced norm on $C(D_n)$ :
        $$|s|_{D_n} = sup_{xin D_n} |f(x)|$$



        Take $f_1, .. f_n$ in $C(X)$, and let $F$ the algebra generated by the $f_i$. We suppose that there exists an isomorphism of algebra (this is necessary to use the finite case) $i_F : C(D_n) rightarrow F$.



        So you have a norm induced by $||.||$ on $D_n$ :
        $$||s||_{D_n, F} = ||i_F(s)||$$



        It is by definition an algebra norm (it would not be the case if $i_F$ was just an isomorphism of vector spaces).
        By the finite case we have $||s||_{D_n,F} geq |s|_{D_n}$. The idea would be, for any $fin C(X)$, to build $F$ big enough so that it can contain $f$.



        But there is a huge problem : when you look at the images of the canonical basis $e_i$ by $i_F$, you see that $i_F(e_i)^2 = i_F (e_i)$, so $i_F (e_i)$ has values in ${0,1}$... So this kind of reasoning might work if $X$ is totally disconnected (nay if $X$ is a discrete space ! ... ), but will be a failure else.



        I also tried to study the quantity, which is a priori only pseudo-norm (but, if the result is true, it must be a norm minorated by $|.|_{D_n}$) :



        $$||s||_{D_n} = inf_{fin C(X), f|_{D_n} = s} ||f|| $$
        This quantity is not infinite, using the fact that a function on a finit set admits an extension on $X$, because $X$ is compact, hence normal, and then it is possible to use Tietze Urysohn's extension theorem.



        It is a pseudo-norm as an inf of (non generally algebra)-norms. To see it, consider all the sections of the application restriction $C(X)rightarrow C(D_n)$ which induces linear isomorphisms $i_F : D_n rightarrow F$ where $F$ is a subspace of $C(X)$, and show that the quantity I defined is the infimum of the $||i_F(s)||$.



        But it is not obvious at all that it is an algebra (pseudo-)norm... Even if it was so, if is not obvious at all it is a norm. So I did not obtain result.



        Conclusion : your question seems not obvious. It is quite hard to have documentation about algebra norms.



        I've found a way to build some algebra norms with this lemma :



        Lemma : Let $I$ a set. If ||.|| is an algebra norm on $mathbf{R}^I$ and $|.|_i$ an algebra norm on $E_i$ for $iin I$ then there is an algebra norm on $prod_{iin I} E_i$ defined by : $(e_i) rightarrow || (|e_i|_i) ||$



        So as algebra norms, you have the max, the subordinate norms, and their compositions... But your result is quite trivial in theese cases (your result is compatible with composition).



        For instance, if I try $X = [0,1]$ and :
        $||f|| = max_{x,y,z,tin X} ||| begin{pmatrix}
        f(x) & f(y) \
        f(z) & f(t)
        end{pmatrix} |||$
        where |||.||| is some subordinate matricial norm, you can just use that the subordinate norm is greater than the max to show the result.



        Maybe I am missing something obvious. But I don't see any proof nor counterexample (even if $X$ is not supposed compact).






        share|cite|improve this answer











        $endgroup$



        You should note properly your question. You have a compact set $X$. You have a norm on $C(X)$ : $|f|_X = sup_{x in X} |f(x)|$ Let an another algebra norm $||.||$ on $C(X)$ and, the goal is to show that $||.||geq |.|_X$.
        Remark : you can check that $|.|_X$ is also a algebra norm.



        A nice analogue of compacts is finite sets (with discrete topology). This avoids topological complications : the max and min occuring are obvious ; it also enable you to have plan to solve the problem in the general case. So let us solve the problem when $X$ is finite.



        Then, $C(X)$ is just $mathbf{R}^n$, the product is the product component by component, $|(x_1,..x_n)|_X$ is the max of components, and $||.||$ an algebra norm.



        We are in a space of finite dimension, so the norms are equivalent : there exists $lambda>0$ such that :
        $frac{1}{lambda}|.|_X leq ||.|| leq lambda |.|_X$



        Let $xin mathbf{R}^n$. For $kin mathbf{N}$, consider $|| x^k ||^frac{1}{k}$. We have : $|| x^k ||^frac{1}{k} leq ||x|| $ ($||.||$ is a algebra norm) and $|| x^k ||^frac{1}{k} geq lambda^{-frac{1}{k}} |x|_X $ (it is quite clear that $|.|$ commutes with the elevation to a certain power). So you obtain, by making $krightarrow infty$ ; $|x|_X leq ||x||$ and you have the result.



        In the general case, you have two possibilities then to continue this kind of problem:



        The first way : find a way to generalize the min and max occuring in the finite case.



        Here, it would be nice to show the following conjecture :



        Conjecture (?) :
        There exist $lambda >0$ and $mu>0$ such that :
        $frac{1}{mu} |.|_X leq ||.|| leq lambda |.|_X $



        But... Theese inequalities are false (at least when ||.|| is not supposed to be an algebra norm : take $X = [0,1]$, and $||f|| = |f|_X + |f'|_X$) for the majoration, $ ||f|| = int |f|$ for the minoration).



        So this way does not look to give results.



        The second way, use the finite case to try to make a demonstration.
        I suppose here that $K$ is metric.



        Then $K$ is separable. So write $K$ as the closure of increasing union of finite set $D_n$, $nin mathbf{N}$. I will note $C(D_n)$ the space of (continuous, where $D_n$ has the discrete topology) functions $D_n rightarrow mathbf{R}$.



        You have the induced norm on $C(D_n)$ :
        $$|s|_{D_n} = sup_{xin D_n} |f(x)|$$



        Take $f_1, .. f_n$ in $C(X)$, and let $F$ the algebra generated by the $f_i$. We suppose that there exists an isomorphism of algebra (this is necessary to use the finite case) $i_F : C(D_n) rightarrow F$.



        So you have a norm induced by $||.||$ on $D_n$ :
        $$||s||_{D_n, F} = ||i_F(s)||$$



        It is by definition an algebra norm (it would not be the case if $i_F$ was just an isomorphism of vector spaces).
        By the finite case we have $||s||_{D_n,F} geq |s|_{D_n}$. The idea would be, for any $fin C(X)$, to build $F$ big enough so that it can contain $f$.



        But there is a huge problem : when you look at the images of the canonical basis $e_i$ by $i_F$, you see that $i_F(e_i)^2 = i_F (e_i)$, so $i_F (e_i)$ has values in ${0,1}$... So this kind of reasoning might work if $X$ is totally disconnected (nay if $X$ is a discrete space ! ... ), but will be a failure else.



        I also tried to study the quantity, which is a priori only pseudo-norm (but, if the result is true, it must be a norm minorated by $|.|_{D_n}$) :



        $$||s||_{D_n} = inf_{fin C(X), f|_{D_n} = s} ||f|| $$
        This quantity is not infinite, using the fact that a function on a finit set admits an extension on $X$, because $X$ is compact, hence normal, and then it is possible to use Tietze Urysohn's extension theorem.



        It is a pseudo-norm as an inf of (non generally algebra)-norms. To see it, consider all the sections of the application restriction $C(X)rightarrow C(D_n)$ which induces linear isomorphisms $i_F : D_n rightarrow F$ where $F$ is a subspace of $C(X)$, and show that the quantity I defined is the infimum of the $||i_F(s)||$.



        But it is not obvious at all that it is an algebra (pseudo-)norm... Even if it was so, if is not obvious at all it is a norm. So I did not obtain result.



        Conclusion : your question seems not obvious. It is quite hard to have documentation about algebra norms.



        I've found a way to build some algebra norms with this lemma :



        Lemma : Let $I$ a set. If ||.|| is an algebra norm on $mathbf{R}^I$ and $|.|_i$ an algebra norm on $E_i$ for $iin I$ then there is an algebra norm on $prod_{iin I} E_i$ defined by : $(e_i) rightarrow || (|e_i|_i) ||$



        So as algebra norms, you have the max, the subordinate norms, and their compositions... But your result is quite trivial in theese cases (your result is compatible with composition).



        For instance, if I try $X = [0,1]$ and :
        $||f|| = max_{x,y,z,tin X} ||| begin{pmatrix}
        f(x) & f(y) \
        f(z) & f(t)
        end{pmatrix} |||$
        where |||.||| is some subordinate matricial norm, you can just use that the subordinate norm is greater than the max to show the result.



        Maybe I am missing something obvious. But I don't see any proof nor counterexample (even if $X$ is not supposed compact).







        share|cite|improve this answer














        share|cite|improve this answer



        share|cite|improve this answer








        edited Jan 25 at 21:32

























        answered Jan 25 at 20:11









        DLeMeurDLeMeur

        3148




        3148






























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