Prove that $|f|_Xleq |f|$ for every $fin C(X)$
$begingroup$
Let $X$ be a compact space and let $|.|$ be an algebra norm on $ C(X)$ Show that $|f|_X leq |f|$ for every $fin C(X)$
Could anyone please suggest me how to deal with these questions
banach-algebras
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Let $X$ be a compact space and let $|.|$ be an algebra norm on $ C(X)$ Show that $|f|_X leq |f|$ for every $fin C(X)$
Could anyone please suggest me how to deal with these questions
banach-algebras
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Can you tell us a bit more about $X$? Normed space? Topological space?
$endgroup$
– mathcounterexamples.net
Jan 25 at 14:18
$begingroup$
$X$ be a compact space and $(C(X), |.|)$ not necessary Banach space
$endgroup$
– user62498
Jan 25 at 14:35
$begingroup$
I understand that $X$ is a compact space but what is the underlying topology? General topology? Equipped with a norm?
$endgroup$
– mathcounterexamples.net
Jan 25 at 15:08
$begingroup$
@I think $X$ with the norm $|.|$
$endgroup$
– user62498
Jan 25 at 15:14
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Let $X$ be a compact space and let $|.|$ be an algebra norm on $ C(X)$ Show that $|f|_X leq |f|$ for every $fin C(X)$
Could anyone please suggest me how to deal with these questions
banach-algebras
$endgroup$
Let $X$ be a compact space and let $|.|$ be an algebra norm on $ C(X)$ Show that $|f|_X leq |f|$ for every $fin C(X)$
Could anyone please suggest me how to deal with these questions
banach-algebras
banach-algebras
edited Jan 25 at 20:19
J. W. Tanner
3,2001320
3,2001320
asked Jan 25 at 13:26
user62498user62498
1,978614
1,978614
$begingroup$
Can you tell us a bit more about $X$? Normed space? Topological space?
$endgroup$
– mathcounterexamples.net
Jan 25 at 14:18
$begingroup$
$X$ be a compact space and $(C(X), |.|)$ not necessary Banach space
$endgroup$
– user62498
Jan 25 at 14:35
$begingroup$
I understand that $X$ is a compact space but what is the underlying topology? General topology? Equipped with a norm?
$endgroup$
– mathcounterexamples.net
Jan 25 at 15:08
$begingroup$
@I think $X$ with the norm $|.|$
$endgroup$
– user62498
Jan 25 at 15:14
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Can you tell us a bit more about $X$? Normed space? Topological space?
$endgroup$
– mathcounterexamples.net
Jan 25 at 14:18
$begingroup$
$X$ be a compact space and $(C(X), |.|)$ not necessary Banach space
$endgroup$
– user62498
Jan 25 at 14:35
$begingroup$
I understand that $X$ is a compact space but what is the underlying topology? General topology? Equipped with a norm?
$endgroup$
– mathcounterexamples.net
Jan 25 at 15:08
$begingroup$
@I think $X$ with the norm $|.|$
$endgroup$
– user62498
Jan 25 at 15:14
$begingroup$
Can you tell us a bit more about $X$? Normed space? Topological space?
$endgroup$
– mathcounterexamples.net
Jan 25 at 14:18
$begingroup$
Can you tell us a bit more about $X$? Normed space? Topological space?
$endgroup$
– mathcounterexamples.net
Jan 25 at 14:18
$begingroup$
$X$ be a compact space and $(C(X), |.|)$ not necessary Banach space
$endgroup$
– user62498
Jan 25 at 14:35
$begingroup$
$X$ be a compact space and $(C(X), |.|)$ not necessary Banach space
$endgroup$
– user62498
Jan 25 at 14:35
$begingroup$
I understand that $X$ is a compact space but what is the underlying topology? General topology? Equipped with a norm?
$endgroup$
– mathcounterexamples.net
Jan 25 at 15:08
$begingroup$
I understand that $X$ is a compact space but what is the underlying topology? General topology? Equipped with a norm?
$endgroup$
– mathcounterexamples.net
Jan 25 at 15:08
$begingroup$
@I think $X$ with the norm $|.|$
$endgroup$
– user62498
Jan 25 at 15:14
$begingroup$
@I think $X$ with the norm $|.|$
$endgroup$
– user62498
Jan 25 at 15:14
add a comment |
1 Answer
1
active
oldest
votes
$begingroup$
You should note properly your question. You have a compact set $X$. You have a norm on $C(X)$ : $|f|_X = sup_{x in X} |f(x)|$ Let an another algebra norm $||.||$ on $C(X)$ and, the goal is to show that $||.||geq |.|_X$.
Remark : you can check that $|.|_X$ is also a algebra norm.
A nice analogue of compacts is finite sets (with discrete topology). This avoids topological complications : the max and min occuring are obvious ; it also enable you to have plan to solve the problem in the general case. So let us solve the problem when $X$ is finite.
Then, $C(X)$ is just $mathbf{R}^n$, the product is the product component by component, $|(x_1,..x_n)|_X$ is the max of components, and $||.||$ an algebra norm.
We are in a space of finite dimension, so the norms are equivalent : there exists $lambda>0$ such that :
$frac{1}{lambda}|.|_X leq ||.|| leq lambda |.|_X$
Let $xin mathbf{R}^n$. For $kin mathbf{N}$, consider $|| x^k ||^frac{1}{k}$. We have : $|| x^k ||^frac{1}{k} leq ||x|| $ ($||.||$ is a algebra norm) and $|| x^k ||^frac{1}{k} geq lambda^{-frac{1}{k}} |x|_X $ (it is quite clear that $|.|$ commutes with the elevation to a certain power). So you obtain, by making $krightarrow infty$ ; $|x|_X leq ||x||$ and you have the result.
In the general case, you have two possibilities then to continue this kind of problem:
The first way : find a way to generalize the min and max occuring in the finite case.
Here, it would be nice to show the following conjecture :
Conjecture (?) :
There exist $lambda >0$ and $mu>0$ such that :
$frac{1}{mu} |.|_X leq ||.|| leq lambda |.|_X $
But... Theese inequalities are false (at least when ||.|| is not supposed to be an algebra norm : take $X = [0,1]$, and $||f|| = |f|_X + |f'|_X$) for the majoration, $ ||f|| = int |f|$ for the minoration).
So this way does not look to give results.
The second way, use the finite case to try to make a demonstration.
I suppose here that $K$ is metric.
Then $K$ is separable. So write $K$ as the closure of increasing union of finite set $D_n$, $nin mathbf{N}$. I will note $C(D_n)$ the space of (continuous, where $D_n$ has the discrete topology) functions $D_n rightarrow mathbf{R}$.
You have the induced norm on $C(D_n)$ :
$$|s|_{D_n} = sup_{xin D_n} |f(x)|$$
Take $f_1, .. f_n$ in $C(X)$, and let $F$ the algebra generated by the $f_i$. We suppose that there exists an isomorphism of algebra (this is necessary to use the finite case) $i_F : C(D_n) rightarrow F$.
So you have a norm induced by $||.||$ on $D_n$ :
$$||s||_{D_n, F} = ||i_F(s)||$$
It is by definition an algebra norm (it would not be the case if $i_F$ was just an isomorphism of vector spaces).
By the finite case we have $||s||_{D_n,F} geq |s|_{D_n}$. The idea would be, for any $fin C(X)$, to build $F$ big enough so that it can contain $f$.
But there is a huge problem : when you look at the images of the canonical basis $e_i$ by $i_F$, you see that $i_F(e_i)^2 = i_F (e_i)$, so $i_F (e_i)$ has values in ${0,1}$... So this kind of reasoning might work if $X$ is totally disconnected (nay if $X$ is a discrete space ! ... ), but will be a failure else.
I also tried to study the quantity, which is a priori only pseudo-norm (but, if the result is true, it must be a norm minorated by $|.|_{D_n}$) :
$$||s||_{D_n} = inf_{fin C(X), f|_{D_n} = s} ||f|| $$
This quantity is not infinite, using the fact that a function on a finit set admits an extension on $X$, because $X$ is compact, hence normal, and then it is possible to use Tietze Urysohn's extension theorem.
It is a pseudo-norm as an inf of (non generally algebra)-norms. To see it, consider all the sections of the application restriction $C(X)rightarrow C(D_n)$ which induces linear isomorphisms $i_F : D_n rightarrow F$ where $F$ is a subspace of $C(X)$, and show that the quantity I defined is the infimum of the $||i_F(s)||$.
But it is not obvious at all that it is an algebra (pseudo-)norm... Even if it was so, if is not obvious at all it is a norm. So I did not obtain result.
Conclusion : your question seems not obvious. It is quite hard to have documentation about algebra norms.
I've found a way to build some algebra norms with this lemma :
Lemma : Let $I$ a set. If ||.|| is an algebra norm on $mathbf{R}^I$ and $|.|_i$ an algebra norm on $E_i$ for $iin I$ then there is an algebra norm on $prod_{iin I} E_i$ defined by : $(e_i) rightarrow || (|e_i|_i) ||$
So as algebra norms, you have the max, the subordinate norms, and their compositions... But your result is quite trivial in theese cases (your result is compatible with composition).
For instance, if I try $X = [0,1]$ and :
$||f|| = max_{x,y,z,tin X} ||| begin{pmatrix}
f(x) & f(y) \
f(z) & f(t)
end{pmatrix} |||$ where |||.||| is some subordinate matricial norm, you can just use that the subordinate norm is greater than the max to show the result.
Maybe I am missing something obvious. But I don't see any proof nor counterexample (even if $X$ is not supposed compact).
$endgroup$
add a comment |
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$begingroup$
You should note properly your question. You have a compact set $X$. You have a norm on $C(X)$ : $|f|_X = sup_{x in X} |f(x)|$ Let an another algebra norm $||.||$ on $C(X)$ and, the goal is to show that $||.||geq |.|_X$.
Remark : you can check that $|.|_X$ is also a algebra norm.
A nice analogue of compacts is finite sets (with discrete topology). This avoids topological complications : the max and min occuring are obvious ; it also enable you to have plan to solve the problem in the general case. So let us solve the problem when $X$ is finite.
Then, $C(X)$ is just $mathbf{R}^n$, the product is the product component by component, $|(x_1,..x_n)|_X$ is the max of components, and $||.||$ an algebra norm.
We are in a space of finite dimension, so the norms are equivalent : there exists $lambda>0$ such that :
$frac{1}{lambda}|.|_X leq ||.|| leq lambda |.|_X$
Let $xin mathbf{R}^n$. For $kin mathbf{N}$, consider $|| x^k ||^frac{1}{k}$. We have : $|| x^k ||^frac{1}{k} leq ||x|| $ ($||.||$ is a algebra norm) and $|| x^k ||^frac{1}{k} geq lambda^{-frac{1}{k}} |x|_X $ (it is quite clear that $|.|$ commutes with the elevation to a certain power). So you obtain, by making $krightarrow infty$ ; $|x|_X leq ||x||$ and you have the result.
In the general case, you have two possibilities then to continue this kind of problem:
The first way : find a way to generalize the min and max occuring in the finite case.
Here, it would be nice to show the following conjecture :
Conjecture (?) :
There exist $lambda >0$ and $mu>0$ such that :
$frac{1}{mu} |.|_X leq ||.|| leq lambda |.|_X $
But... Theese inequalities are false (at least when ||.|| is not supposed to be an algebra norm : take $X = [0,1]$, and $||f|| = |f|_X + |f'|_X$) for the majoration, $ ||f|| = int |f|$ for the minoration).
So this way does not look to give results.
The second way, use the finite case to try to make a demonstration.
I suppose here that $K$ is metric.
Then $K$ is separable. So write $K$ as the closure of increasing union of finite set $D_n$, $nin mathbf{N}$. I will note $C(D_n)$ the space of (continuous, where $D_n$ has the discrete topology) functions $D_n rightarrow mathbf{R}$.
You have the induced norm on $C(D_n)$ :
$$|s|_{D_n} = sup_{xin D_n} |f(x)|$$
Take $f_1, .. f_n$ in $C(X)$, and let $F$ the algebra generated by the $f_i$. We suppose that there exists an isomorphism of algebra (this is necessary to use the finite case) $i_F : C(D_n) rightarrow F$.
So you have a norm induced by $||.||$ on $D_n$ :
$$||s||_{D_n, F} = ||i_F(s)||$$
It is by definition an algebra norm (it would not be the case if $i_F$ was just an isomorphism of vector spaces).
By the finite case we have $||s||_{D_n,F} geq |s|_{D_n}$. The idea would be, for any $fin C(X)$, to build $F$ big enough so that it can contain $f$.
But there is a huge problem : when you look at the images of the canonical basis $e_i$ by $i_F$, you see that $i_F(e_i)^2 = i_F (e_i)$, so $i_F (e_i)$ has values in ${0,1}$... So this kind of reasoning might work if $X$ is totally disconnected (nay if $X$ is a discrete space ! ... ), but will be a failure else.
I also tried to study the quantity, which is a priori only pseudo-norm (but, if the result is true, it must be a norm minorated by $|.|_{D_n}$) :
$$||s||_{D_n} = inf_{fin C(X), f|_{D_n} = s} ||f|| $$
This quantity is not infinite, using the fact that a function on a finit set admits an extension on $X$, because $X$ is compact, hence normal, and then it is possible to use Tietze Urysohn's extension theorem.
It is a pseudo-norm as an inf of (non generally algebra)-norms. To see it, consider all the sections of the application restriction $C(X)rightarrow C(D_n)$ which induces linear isomorphisms $i_F : D_n rightarrow F$ where $F$ is a subspace of $C(X)$, and show that the quantity I defined is the infimum of the $||i_F(s)||$.
But it is not obvious at all that it is an algebra (pseudo-)norm... Even if it was so, if is not obvious at all it is a norm. So I did not obtain result.
Conclusion : your question seems not obvious. It is quite hard to have documentation about algebra norms.
I've found a way to build some algebra norms with this lemma :
Lemma : Let $I$ a set. If ||.|| is an algebra norm on $mathbf{R}^I$ and $|.|_i$ an algebra norm on $E_i$ for $iin I$ then there is an algebra norm on $prod_{iin I} E_i$ defined by : $(e_i) rightarrow || (|e_i|_i) ||$
So as algebra norms, you have the max, the subordinate norms, and their compositions... But your result is quite trivial in theese cases (your result is compatible with composition).
For instance, if I try $X = [0,1]$ and :
$||f|| = max_{x,y,z,tin X} ||| begin{pmatrix}
f(x) & f(y) \
f(z) & f(t)
end{pmatrix} |||$ where |||.||| is some subordinate matricial norm, you can just use that the subordinate norm is greater than the max to show the result.
Maybe I am missing something obvious. But I don't see any proof nor counterexample (even if $X$ is not supposed compact).
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
You should note properly your question. You have a compact set $X$. You have a norm on $C(X)$ : $|f|_X = sup_{x in X} |f(x)|$ Let an another algebra norm $||.||$ on $C(X)$ and, the goal is to show that $||.||geq |.|_X$.
Remark : you can check that $|.|_X$ is also a algebra norm.
A nice analogue of compacts is finite sets (with discrete topology). This avoids topological complications : the max and min occuring are obvious ; it also enable you to have plan to solve the problem in the general case. So let us solve the problem when $X$ is finite.
Then, $C(X)$ is just $mathbf{R}^n$, the product is the product component by component, $|(x_1,..x_n)|_X$ is the max of components, and $||.||$ an algebra norm.
We are in a space of finite dimension, so the norms are equivalent : there exists $lambda>0$ such that :
$frac{1}{lambda}|.|_X leq ||.|| leq lambda |.|_X$
Let $xin mathbf{R}^n$. For $kin mathbf{N}$, consider $|| x^k ||^frac{1}{k}$. We have : $|| x^k ||^frac{1}{k} leq ||x|| $ ($||.||$ is a algebra norm) and $|| x^k ||^frac{1}{k} geq lambda^{-frac{1}{k}} |x|_X $ (it is quite clear that $|.|$ commutes with the elevation to a certain power). So you obtain, by making $krightarrow infty$ ; $|x|_X leq ||x||$ and you have the result.
In the general case, you have two possibilities then to continue this kind of problem:
The first way : find a way to generalize the min and max occuring in the finite case.
Here, it would be nice to show the following conjecture :
Conjecture (?) :
There exist $lambda >0$ and $mu>0$ such that :
$frac{1}{mu} |.|_X leq ||.|| leq lambda |.|_X $
But... Theese inequalities are false (at least when ||.|| is not supposed to be an algebra norm : take $X = [0,1]$, and $||f|| = |f|_X + |f'|_X$) for the majoration, $ ||f|| = int |f|$ for the minoration).
So this way does not look to give results.
The second way, use the finite case to try to make a demonstration.
I suppose here that $K$ is metric.
Then $K$ is separable. So write $K$ as the closure of increasing union of finite set $D_n$, $nin mathbf{N}$. I will note $C(D_n)$ the space of (continuous, where $D_n$ has the discrete topology) functions $D_n rightarrow mathbf{R}$.
You have the induced norm on $C(D_n)$ :
$$|s|_{D_n} = sup_{xin D_n} |f(x)|$$
Take $f_1, .. f_n$ in $C(X)$, and let $F$ the algebra generated by the $f_i$. We suppose that there exists an isomorphism of algebra (this is necessary to use the finite case) $i_F : C(D_n) rightarrow F$.
So you have a norm induced by $||.||$ on $D_n$ :
$$||s||_{D_n, F} = ||i_F(s)||$$
It is by definition an algebra norm (it would not be the case if $i_F$ was just an isomorphism of vector spaces).
By the finite case we have $||s||_{D_n,F} geq |s|_{D_n}$. The idea would be, for any $fin C(X)$, to build $F$ big enough so that it can contain $f$.
But there is a huge problem : when you look at the images of the canonical basis $e_i$ by $i_F$, you see that $i_F(e_i)^2 = i_F (e_i)$, so $i_F (e_i)$ has values in ${0,1}$... So this kind of reasoning might work if $X$ is totally disconnected (nay if $X$ is a discrete space ! ... ), but will be a failure else.
I also tried to study the quantity, which is a priori only pseudo-norm (but, if the result is true, it must be a norm minorated by $|.|_{D_n}$) :
$$||s||_{D_n} = inf_{fin C(X), f|_{D_n} = s} ||f|| $$
This quantity is not infinite, using the fact that a function on a finit set admits an extension on $X$, because $X$ is compact, hence normal, and then it is possible to use Tietze Urysohn's extension theorem.
It is a pseudo-norm as an inf of (non generally algebra)-norms. To see it, consider all the sections of the application restriction $C(X)rightarrow C(D_n)$ which induces linear isomorphisms $i_F : D_n rightarrow F$ where $F$ is a subspace of $C(X)$, and show that the quantity I defined is the infimum of the $||i_F(s)||$.
But it is not obvious at all that it is an algebra (pseudo-)norm... Even if it was so, if is not obvious at all it is a norm. So I did not obtain result.
Conclusion : your question seems not obvious. It is quite hard to have documentation about algebra norms.
I've found a way to build some algebra norms with this lemma :
Lemma : Let $I$ a set. If ||.|| is an algebra norm on $mathbf{R}^I$ and $|.|_i$ an algebra norm on $E_i$ for $iin I$ then there is an algebra norm on $prod_{iin I} E_i$ defined by : $(e_i) rightarrow || (|e_i|_i) ||$
So as algebra norms, you have the max, the subordinate norms, and their compositions... But your result is quite trivial in theese cases (your result is compatible with composition).
For instance, if I try $X = [0,1]$ and :
$||f|| = max_{x,y,z,tin X} ||| begin{pmatrix}
f(x) & f(y) \
f(z) & f(t)
end{pmatrix} |||$ where |||.||| is some subordinate matricial norm, you can just use that the subordinate norm is greater than the max to show the result.
Maybe I am missing something obvious. But I don't see any proof nor counterexample (even if $X$ is not supposed compact).
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
You should note properly your question. You have a compact set $X$. You have a norm on $C(X)$ : $|f|_X = sup_{x in X} |f(x)|$ Let an another algebra norm $||.||$ on $C(X)$ and, the goal is to show that $||.||geq |.|_X$.
Remark : you can check that $|.|_X$ is also a algebra norm.
A nice analogue of compacts is finite sets (with discrete topology). This avoids topological complications : the max and min occuring are obvious ; it also enable you to have plan to solve the problem in the general case. So let us solve the problem when $X$ is finite.
Then, $C(X)$ is just $mathbf{R}^n$, the product is the product component by component, $|(x_1,..x_n)|_X$ is the max of components, and $||.||$ an algebra norm.
We are in a space of finite dimension, so the norms are equivalent : there exists $lambda>0$ such that :
$frac{1}{lambda}|.|_X leq ||.|| leq lambda |.|_X$
Let $xin mathbf{R}^n$. For $kin mathbf{N}$, consider $|| x^k ||^frac{1}{k}$. We have : $|| x^k ||^frac{1}{k} leq ||x|| $ ($||.||$ is a algebra norm) and $|| x^k ||^frac{1}{k} geq lambda^{-frac{1}{k}} |x|_X $ (it is quite clear that $|.|$ commutes with the elevation to a certain power). So you obtain, by making $krightarrow infty$ ; $|x|_X leq ||x||$ and you have the result.
In the general case, you have two possibilities then to continue this kind of problem:
The first way : find a way to generalize the min and max occuring in the finite case.
Here, it would be nice to show the following conjecture :
Conjecture (?) :
There exist $lambda >0$ and $mu>0$ such that :
$frac{1}{mu} |.|_X leq ||.|| leq lambda |.|_X $
But... Theese inequalities are false (at least when ||.|| is not supposed to be an algebra norm : take $X = [0,1]$, and $||f|| = |f|_X + |f'|_X$) for the majoration, $ ||f|| = int |f|$ for the minoration).
So this way does not look to give results.
The second way, use the finite case to try to make a demonstration.
I suppose here that $K$ is metric.
Then $K$ is separable. So write $K$ as the closure of increasing union of finite set $D_n$, $nin mathbf{N}$. I will note $C(D_n)$ the space of (continuous, where $D_n$ has the discrete topology) functions $D_n rightarrow mathbf{R}$.
You have the induced norm on $C(D_n)$ :
$$|s|_{D_n} = sup_{xin D_n} |f(x)|$$
Take $f_1, .. f_n$ in $C(X)$, and let $F$ the algebra generated by the $f_i$. We suppose that there exists an isomorphism of algebra (this is necessary to use the finite case) $i_F : C(D_n) rightarrow F$.
So you have a norm induced by $||.||$ on $D_n$ :
$$||s||_{D_n, F} = ||i_F(s)||$$
It is by definition an algebra norm (it would not be the case if $i_F$ was just an isomorphism of vector spaces).
By the finite case we have $||s||_{D_n,F} geq |s|_{D_n}$. The idea would be, for any $fin C(X)$, to build $F$ big enough so that it can contain $f$.
But there is a huge problem : when you look at the images of the canonical basis $e_i$ by $i_F$, you see that $i_F(e_i)^2 = i_F (e_i)$, so $i_F (e_i)$ has values in ${0,1}$... So this kind of reasoning might work if $X$ is totally disconnected (nay if $X$ is a discrete space ! ... ), but will be a failure else.
I also tried to study the quantity, which is a priori only pseudo-norm (but, if the result is true, it must be a norm minorated by $|.|_{D_n}$) :
$$||s||_{D_n} = inf_{fin C(X), f|_{D_n} = s} ||f|| $$
This quantity is not infinite, using the fact that a function on a finit set admits an extension on $X$, because $X$ is compact, hence normal, and then it is possible to use Tietze Urysohn's extension theorem.
It is a pseudo-norm as an inf of (non generally algebra)-norms. To see it, consider all the sections of the application restriction $C(X)rightarrow C(D_n)$ which induces linear isomorphisms $i_F : D_n rightarrow F$ where $F$ is a subspace of $C(X)$, and show that the quantity I defined is the infimum of the $||i_F(s)||$.
But it is not obvious at all that it is an algebra (pseudo-)norm... Even if it was so, if is not obvious at all it is a norm. So I did not obtain result.
Conclusion : your question seems not obvious. It is quite hard to have documentation about algebra norms.
I've found a way to build some algebra norms with this lemma :
Lemma : Let $I$ a set. If ||.|| is an algebra norm on $mathbf{R}^I$ and $|.|_i$ an algebra norm on $E_i$ for $iin I$ then there is an algebra norm on $prod_{iin I} E_i$ defined by : $(e_i) rightarrow || (|e_i|_i) ||$
So as algebra norms, you have the max, the subordinate norms, and their compositions... But your result is quite trivial in theese cases (your result is compatible with composition).
For instance, if I try $X = [0,1]$ and :
$||f|| = max_{x,y,z,tin X} ||| begin{pmatrix}
f(x) & f(y) \
f(z) & f(t)
end{pmatrix} |||$ where |||.||| is some subordinate matricial norm, you can just use that the subordinate norm is greater than the max to show the result.
Maybe I am missing something obvious. But I don't see any proof nor counterexample (even if $X$ is not supposed compact).
$endgroup$
You should note properly your question. You have a compact set $X$. You have a norm on $C(X)$ : $|f|_X = sup_{x in X} |f(x)|$ Let an another algebra norm $||.||$ on $C(X)$ and, the goal is to show that $||.||geq |.|_X$.
Remark : you can check that $|.|_X$ is also a algebra norm.
A nice analogue of compacts is finite sets (with discrete topology). This avoids topological complications : the max and min occuring are obvious ; it also enable you to have plan to solve the problem in the general case. So let us solve the problem when $X$ is finite.
Then, $C(X)$ is just $mathbf{R}^n$, the product is the product component by component, $|(x_1,..x_n)|_X$ is the max of components, and $||.||$ an algebra norm.
We are in a space of finite dimension, so the norms are equivalent : there exists $lambda>0$ such that :
$frac{1}{lambda}|.|_X leq ||.|| leq lambda |.|_X$
Let $xin mathbf{R}^n$. For $kin mathbf{N}$, consider $|| x^k ||^frac{1}{k}$. We have : $|| x^k ||^frac{1}{k} leq ||x|| $ ($||.||$ is a algebra norm) and $|| x^k ||^frac{1}{k} geq lambda^{-frac{1}{k}} |x|_X $ (it is quite clear that $|.|$ commutes with the elevation to a certain power). So you obtain, by making $krightarrow infty$ ; $|x|_X leq ||x||$ and you have the result.
In the general case, you have two possibilities then to continue this kind of problem:
The first way : find a way to generalize the min and max occuring in the finite case.
Here, it would be nice to show the following conjecture :
Conjecture (?) :
There exist $lambda >0$ and $mu>0$ such that :
$frac{1}{mu} |.|_X leq ||.|| leq lambda |.|_X $
But... Theese inequalities are false (at least when ||.|| is not supposed to be an algebra norm : take $X = [0,1]$, and $||f|| = |f|_X + |f'|_X$) for the majoration, $ ||f|| = int |f|$ for the minoration).
So this way does not look to give results.
The second way, use the finite case to try to make a demonstration.
I suppose here that $K$ is metric.
Then $K$ is separable. So write $K$ as the closure of increasing union of finite set $D_n$, $nin mathbf{N}$. I will note $C(D_n)$ the space of (continuous, where $D_n$ has the discrete topology) functions $D_n rightarrow mathbf{R}$.
You have the induced norm on $C(D_n)$ :
$$|s|_{D_n} = sup_{xin D_n} |f(x)|$$
Take $f_1, .. f_n$ in $C(X)$, and let $F$ the algebra generated by the $f_i$. We suppose that there exists an isomorphism of algebra (this is necessary to use the finite case) $i_F : C(D_n) rightarrow F$.
So you have a norm induced by $||.||$ on $D_n$ :
$$||s||_{D_n, F} = ||i_F(s)||$$
It is by definition an algebra norm (it would not be the case if $i_F$ was just an isomorphism of vector spaces).
By the finite case we have $||s||_{D_n,F} geq |s|_{D_n}$. The idea would be, for any $fin C(X)$, to build $F$ big enough so that it can contain $f$.
But there is a huge problem : when you look at the images of the canonical basis $e_i$ by $i_F$, you see that $i_F(e_i)^2 = i_F (e_i)$, so $i_F (e_i)$ has values in ${0,1}$... So this kind of reasoning might work if $X$ is totally disconnected (nay if $X$ is a discrete space ! ... ), but will be a failure else.
I also tried to study the quantity, which is a priori only pseudo-norm (but, if the result is true, it must be a norm minorated by $|.|_{D_n}$) :
$$||s||_{D_n} = inf_{fin C(X), f|_{D_n} = s} ||f|| $$
This quantity is not infinite, using the fact that a function on a finit set admits an extension on $X$, because $X$ is compact, hence normal, and then it is possible to use Tietze Urysohn's extension theorem.
It is a pseudo-norm as an inf of (non generally algebra)-norms. To see it, consider all the sections of the application restriction $C(X)rightarrow C(D_n)$ which induces linear isomorphisms $i_F : D_n rightarrow F$ where $F$ is a subspace of $C(X)$, and show that the quantity I defined is the infimum of the $||i_F(s)||$.
But it is not obvious at all that it is an algebra (pseudo-)norm... Even if it was so, if is not obvious at all it is a norm. So I did not obtain result.
Conclusion : your question seems not obvious. It is quite hard to have documentation about algebra norms.
I've found a way to build some algebra norms with this lemma :
Lemma : Let $I$ a set. If ||.|| is an algebra norm on $mathbf{R}^I$ and $|.|_i$ an algebra norm on $E_i$ for $iin I$ then there is an algebra norm on $prod_{iin I} E_i$ defined by : $(e_i) rightarrow || (|e_i|_i) ||$
So as algebra norms, you have the max, the subordinate norms, and their compositions... But your result is quite trivial in theese cases (your result is compatible with composition).
For instance, if I try $X = [0,1]$ and :
$||f|| = max_{x,y,z,tin X} ||| begin{pmatrix}
f(x) & f(y) \
f(z) & f(t)
end{pmatrix} |||$ where |||.||| is some subordinate matricial norm, you can just use that the subordinate norm is greater than the max to show the result.
Maybe I am missing something obvious. But I don't see any proof nor counterexample (even if $X$ is not supposed compact).
edited Jan 25 at 21:32
answered Jan 25 at 20:11
DLeMeurDLeMeur
3148
3148
add a comment |
add a comment |
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$begingroup$
Can you tell us a bit more about $X$? Normed space? Topological space?
$endgroup$
– mathcounterexamples.net
Jan 25 at 14:18
$begingroup$
$X$ be a compact space and $(C(X), |.|)$ not necessary Banach space
$endgroup$
– user62498
Jan 25 at 14:35
$begingroup$
I understand that $X$ is a compact space but what is the underlying topology? General topology? Equipped with a norm?
$endgroup$
– mathcounterexamples.net
Jan 25 at 15:08
$begingroup$
@I think $X$ with the norm $|.|$
$endgroup$
– user62498
Jan 25 at 15:14