Find the radius of two circular arcs in a reverse curve separated by a tangent line












1












$begingroup$


I have a geometry problem for an architectural application that I hope someone can help me with.



this diagram



I have a rectangle $(a times b)$ which contains a reverse curve from bottom left to top right formed of two circular arcs of the same radius $R$ and angle $theta$ which are joined tangentially by a line of length $S$. For the various situations I wish to use this in, I will know $a$, $b$, and $S$ and I wish to solve for $R$ for which I think there is only one solution.



When $S = 0$, with the line disappearing and the two arcs joining tangentially in the centre of the rectangle, I am able to derive the simple formula



$$R = frac{0.25 a^2 + 0.25 b^2}{b}$$



but when $S > 0$ I can derive the following formulas of the relationship between the variables but I am struggling to rearrange them in terms of $R$ or $theta$



$$R=frac{b-Ssin(theta )}{2-2cos(theta)} = frac{a-Scos(theta)}{2sin(theta)}$$



Thank you.










share|cite|improve this question











$endgroup$

















    1












    $begingroup$


    I have a geometry problem for an architectural application that I hope someone can help me with.



    this diagram



    I have a rectangle $(a times b)$ which contains a reverse curve from bottom left to top right formed of two circular arcs of the same radius $R$ and angle $theta$ which are joined tangentially by a line of length $S$. For the various situations I wish to use this in, I will know $a$, $b$, and $S$ and I wish to solve for $R$ for which I think there is only one solution.



    When $S = 0$, with the line disappearing and the two arcs joining tangentially in the centre of the rectangle, I am able to derive the simple formula



    $$R = frac{0.25 a^2 + 0.25 b^2}{b}$$



    but when $S > 0$ I can derive the following formulas of the relationship between the variables but I am struggling to rearrange them in terms of $R$ or $theta$



    $$R=frac{b-Ssin(theta )}{2-2cos(theta)} = frac{a-Scos(theta)}{2sin(theta)}$$



    Thank you.










    share|cite|improve this question











    $endgroup$















      1












      1








      1


      1



      $begingroup$


      I have a geometry problem for an architectural application that I hope someone can help me with.



      this diagram



      I have a rectangle $(a times b)$ which contains a reverse curve from bottom left to top right formed of two circular arcs of the same radius $R$ and angle $theta$ which are joined tangentially by a line of length $S$. For the various situations I wish to use this in, I will know $a$, $b$, and $S$ and I wish to solve for $R$ for which I think there is only one solution.



      When $S = 0$, with the line disappearing and the two arcs joining tangentially in the centre of the rectangle, I am able to derive the simple formula



      $$R = frac{0.25 a^2 + 0.25 b^2}{b}$$



      but when $S > 0$ I can derive the following formulas of the relationship between the variables but I am struggling to rearrange them in terms of $R$ or $theta$



      $$R=frac{b-Ssin(theta )}{2-2cos(theta)} = frac{a-Scos(theta)}{2sin(theta)}$$



      Thank you.










      share|cite|improve this question











      $endgroup$




      I have a geometry problem for an architectural application that I hope someone can help me with.



      this diagram



      I have a rectangle $(a times b)$ which contains a reverse curve from bottom left to top right formed of two circular arcs of the same radius $R$ and angle $theta$ which are joined tangentially by a line of length $S$. For the various situations I wish to use this in, I will know $a$, $b$, and $S$ and I wish to solve for $R$ for which I think there is only one solution.



      When $S = 0$, with the line disappearing and the two arcs joining tangentially in the centre of the rectangle, I am able to derive the simple formula



      $$R = frac{0.25 a^2 + 0.25 b^2}{b}$$



      but when $S > 0$ I can derive the following formulas of the relationship between the variables but I am struggling to rearrange them in terms of $R$ or $theta$



      $$R=frac{b-Ssin(theta )}{2-2cos(theta)} = frac{a-Scos(theta)}{2sin(theta)}$$



      Thank you.







      geometry trigonometry






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      share|cite|improve this question













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      share|cite|improve this question








      edited Jan 8 at 12:17









      Dylan

      12.4k31026




      12.4k31026










      asked May 14 '18 at 23:32









      thomascorriethomascorrie

      84




      84






















          1 Answer
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          $begingroup$

          I'll coordinatize the $square OACB$ with
          $$O = (0,0) qquad A = (a,0) qquad B = (0,b) qquad C = (a,b)$$
          The centers of the arcs will be at
          $$A^prime = C - (0,r) qquad B^prime = O + (0,r)$$
          Let $C^prime$ be the image of $C$ rotated about $A^prime$ by angle $2theta$, and $O^prime$ the image of $O$ rotated about $B^prime$:
          $$C^prime = left(;a - r sin 2theta, b - r (1-cos 2theta);right)$$
          $$O^prime = left(;r sin 2theta, r (1 - cos 2theta);right)$$



          Then the S-curve conditions are that $|O^prime C^prime|=s$, and $overline{O^prime C^prime}perp overline{C^prime A^prime}$. That is,
          $$begin{align}
          (O^prime-C^prime)cdot(O^prime-C^prime) &= s^2 tag{1a} \
          (O^prime-C^prime)cdot(C^prime-A^prime) &= 0 tag{1b}
          end{align}$$
          These imply
          $$begin{align}
          4 r left(; a sin 2theta - (b - 2 r) cos 2theta ;right) &= a^2 + b^2 - 4 b r + 8 r^2 - s^2 tag{2a} \
          a sin 2theta - (b - 2 r) cos 2thetaphantom{left.;,right)} &= 2 r tag{2b}\
          end{align}$$



          Eliminating $theta$ is surprisingly easy, as is solving for $r$.




          $$r = frac{1}{4b}left(a^2+b^2-s^2right) tag{$star$}$$




          Back-substituting to get $theta$ is a little trickier, but we ultimately get
          $$cos 2theta = frac{(a - b + s) (a + b + s)}{
          (a+s)^2 + b^2} quadtext{or}quad frac{(a - b - s) (a + b - s)}{
          (a-s)^2+b^2}$$
          The latter of these turns out to be extraneous. The former yields this more-convenient form:




          $$tan theta = frac{b}{a+s} tag{$starstar$}$$




          The simplicity of $(starstar)$ suggests that there should be a way to see this solution; as it turns out, there's also a straightforward construction:



          enter image description here




          • We introduce $S$ and $S^prime$, at distance $s$ from $O$ and $C$, respectively, on extensions of $overline{AO}$ and $overline{BC}$. Note that $tan angle ASC = b/(a+s) = tantheta$, so that $angle ASC = theta$.


          • Let $K$ be the center of $square OACB$ (constructed, say, as the intersection of the rectangle's two diagonals). If $bigcirc K$ has diameter $s$, then $overline{SC}$ and $overline{S^prime O}$ meet $bigcirc K$ at $C^prime$ and $O^prime$, respectively.


          • Finally, $A^prime$ is where the perpendicular to $overline{C^prime O^prime}$ at $C^prime$ meets $overleftrightarrow{AC}$. Similarly for $B^prime$.



          (Incidentally, the extraneous solution corresponds to taking $overline{OS}$ and $overline{CS^prime}$ "pointing the other way". That is, we can take $s$ to be negative in the above analysis. We see that the sign change has no effect on $(star)$, so that the radius $r$ ---and thus also centers $A^prime$ and $B^prime$--- remains unchanged. Therefore, the extraneous $C^prime$ and $O^prime$ are the "other" points where $bigcirc A^prime$ and $bigcirc B^prime$ meet $bigcirc K$.)






          share|cite|improve this answer











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          • 1




            $begingroup$
            Great answer, especially the second part where you “show” why we have such a simple solution
            $endgroup$
            – b00n heT
            Jan 8 at 12:35













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          1












          $begingroup$

          I'll coordinatize the $square OACB$ with
          $$O = (0,0) qquad A = (a,0) qquad B = (0,b) qquad C = (a,b)$$
          The centers of the arcs will be at
          $$A^prime = C - (0,r) qquad B^prime = O + (0,r)$$
          Let $C^prime$ be the image of $C$ rotated about $A^prime$ by angle $2theta$, and $O^prime$ the image of $O$ rotated about $B^prime$:
          $$C^prime = left(;a - r sin 2theta, b - r (1-cos 2theta);right)$$
          $$O^prime = left(;r sin 2theta, r (1 - cos 2theta);right)$$



          Then the S-curve conditions are that $|O^prime C^prime|=s$, and $overline{O^prime C^prime}perp overline{C^prime A^prime}$. That is,
          $$begin{align}
          (O^prime-C^prime)cdot(O^prime-C^prime) &= s^2 tag{1a} \
          (O^prime-C^prime)cdot(C^prime-A^prime) &= 0 tag{1b}
          end{align}$$
          These imply
          $$begin{align}
          4 r left(; a sin 2theta - (b - 2 r) cos 2theta ;right) &= a^2 + b^2 - 4 b r + 8 r^2 - s^2 tag{2a} \
          a sin 2theta - (b - 2 r) cos 2thetaphantom{left.;,right)} &= 2 r tag{2b}\
          end{align}$$



          Eliminating $theta$ is surprisingly easy, as is solving for $r$.




          $$r = frac{1}{4b}left(a^2+b^2-s^2right) tag{$star$}$$




          Back-substituting to get $theta$ is a little trickier, but we ultimately get
          $$cos 2theta = frac{(a - b + s) (a + b + s)}{
          (a+s)^2 + b^2} quadtext{or}quad frac{(a - b - s) (a + b - s)}{
          (a-s)^2+b^2}$$
          The latter of these turns out to be extraneous. The former yields this more-convenient form:




          $$tan theta = frac{b}{a+s} tag{$starstar$}$$




          The simplicity of $(starstar)$ suggests that there should be a way to see this solution; as it turns out, there's also a straightforward construction:



          enter image description here




          • We introduce $S$ and $S^prime$, at distance $s$ from $O$ and $C$, respectively, on extensions of $overline{AO}$ and $overline{BC}$. Note that $tan angle ASC = b/(a+s) = tantheta$, so that $angle ASC = theta$.


          • Let $K$ be the center of $square OACB$ (constructed, say, as the intersection of the rectangle's two diagonals). If $bigcirc K$ has diameter $s$, then $overline{SC}$ and $overline{S^prime O}$ meet $bigcirc K$ at $C^prime$ and $O^prime$, respectively.


          • Finally, $A^prime$ is where the perpendicular to $overline{C^prime O^prime}$ at $C^prime$ meets $overleftrightarrow{AC}$. Similarly for $B^prime$.



          (Incidentally, the extraneous solution corresponds to taking $overline{OS}$ and $overline{CS^prime}$ "pointing the other way". That is, we can take $s$ to be negative in the above analysis. We see that the sign change has no effect on $(star)$, so that the radius $r$ ---and thus also centers $A^prime$ and $B^prime$--- remains unchanged. Therefore, the extraneous $C^prime$ and $O^prime$ are the "other" points where $bigcirc A^prime$ and $bigcirc B^prime$ meet $bigcirc K$.)






          share|cite|improve this answer











          $endgroup$









          • 1




            $begingroup$
            Great answer, especially the second part where you “show” why we have such a simple solution
            $endgroup$
            – b00n heT
            Jan 8 at 12:35


















          1












          $begingroup$

          I'll coordinatize the $square OACB$ with
          $$O = (0,0) qquad A = (a,0) qquad B = (0,b) qquad C = (a,b)$$
          The centers of the arcs will be at
          $$A^prime = C - (0,r) qquad B^prime = O + (0,r)$$
          Let $C^prime$ be the image of $C$ rotated about $A^prime$ by angle $2theta$, and $O^prime$ the image of $O$ rotated about $B^prime$:
          $$C^prime = left(;a - r sin 2theta, b - r (1-cos 2theta);right)$$
          $$O^prime = left(;r sin 2theta, r (1 - cos 2theta);right)$$



          Then the S-curve conditions are that $|O^prime C^prime|=s$, and $overline{O^prime C^prime}perp overline{C^prime A^prime}$. That is,
          $$begin{align}
          (O^prime-C^prime)cdot(O^prime-C^prime) &= s^2 tag{1a} \
          (O^prime-C^prime)cdot(C^prime-A^prime) &= 0 tag{1b}
          end{align}$$
          These imply
          $$begin{align}
          4 r left(; a sin 2theta - (b - 2 r) cos 2theta ;right) &= a^2 + b^2 - 4 b r + 8 r^2 - s^2 tag{2a} \
          a sin 2theta - (b - 2 r) cos 2thetaphantom{left.;,right)} &= 2 r tag{2b}\
          end{align}$$



          Eliminating $theta$ is surprisingly easy, as is solving for $r$.




          $$r = frac{1}{4b}left(a^2+b^2-s^2right) tag{$star$}$$




          Back-substituting to get $theta$ is a little trickier, but we ultimately get
          $$cos 2theta = frac{(a - b + s) (a + b + s)}{
          (a+s)^2 + b^2} quadtext{or}quad frac{(a - b - s) (a + b - s)}{
          (a-s)^2+b^2}$$
          The latter of these turns out to be extraneous. The former yields this more-convenient form:




          $$tan theta = frac{b}{a+s} tag{$starstar$}$$




          The simplicity of $(starstar)$ suggests that there should be a way to see this solution; as it turns out, there's also a straightforward construction:



          enter image description here




          • We introduce $S$ and $S^prime$, at distance $s$ from $O$ and $C$, respectively, on extensions of $overline{AO}$ and $overline{BC}$. Note that $tan angle ASC = b/(a+s) = tantheta$, so that $angle ASC = theta$.


          • Let $K$ be the center of $square OACB$ (constructed, say, as the intersection of the rectangle's two diagonals). If $bigcirc K$ has diameter $s$, then $overline{SC}$ and $overline{S^prime O}$ meet $bigcirc K$ at $C^prime$ and $O^prime$, respectively.


          • Finally, $A^prime$ is where the perpendicular to $overline{C^prime O^prime}$ at $C^prime$ meets $overleftrightarrow{AC}$. Similarly for $B^prime$.



          (Incidentally, the extraneous solution corresponds to taking $overline{OS}$ and $overline{CS^prime}$ "pointing the other way". That is, we can take $s$ to be negative in the above analysis. We see that the sign change has no effect on $(star)$, so that the radius $r$ ---and thus also centers $A^prime$ and $B^prime$--- remains unchanged. Therefore, the extraneous $C^prime$ and $O^prime$ are the "other" points where $bigcirc A^prime$ and $bigcirc B^prime$ meet $bigcirc K$.)






          share|cite|improve this answer











          $endgroup$









          • 1




            $begingroup$
            Great answer, especially the second part where you “show” why we have such a simple solution
            $endgroup$
            – b00n heT
            Jan 8 at 12:35
















          1












          1








          1





          $begingroup$

          I'll coordinatize the $square OACB$ with
          $$O = (0,0) qquad A = (a,0) qquad B = (0,b) qquad C = (a,b)$$
          The centers of the arcs will be at
          $$A^prime = C - (0,r) qquad B^prime = O + (0,r)$$
          Let $C^prime$ be the image of $C$ rotated about $A^prime$ by angle $2theta$, and $O^prime$ the image of $O$ rotated about $B^prime$:
          $$C^prime = left(;a - r sin 2theta, b - r (1-cos 2theta);right)$$
          $$O^prime = left(;r sin 2theta, r (1 - cos 2theta);right)$$



          Then the S-curve conditions are that $|O^prime C^prime|=s$, and $overline{O^prime C^prime}perp overline{C^prime A^prime}$. That is,
          $$begin{align}
          (O^prime-C^prime)cdot(O^prime-C^prime) &= s^2 tag{1a} \
          (O^prime-C^prime)cdot(C^prime-A^prime) &= 0 tag{1b}
          end{align}$$
          These imply
          $$begin{align}
          4 r left(; a sin 2theta - (b - 2 r) cos 2theta ;right) &= a^2 + b^2 - 4 b r + 8 r^2 - s^2 tag{2a} \
          a sin 2theta - (b - 2 r) cos 2thetaphantom{left.;,right)} &= 2 r tag{2b}\
          end{align}$$



          Eliminating $theta$ is surprisingly easy, as is solving for $r$.




          $$r = frac{1}{4b}left(a^2+b^2-s^2right) tag{$star$}$$




          Back-substituting to get $theta$ is a little trickier, but we ultimately get
          $$cos 2theta = frac{(a - b + s) (a + b + s)}{
          (a+s)^2 + b^2} quadtext{or}quad frac{(a - b - s) (a + b - s)}{
          (a-s)^2+b^2}$$
          The latter of these turns out to be extraneous. The former yields this more-convenient form:




          $$tan theta = frac{b}{a+s} tag{$starstar$}$$




          The simplicity of $(starstar)$ suggests that there should be a way to see this solution; as it turns out, there's also a straightforward construction:



          enter image description here




          • We introduce $S$ and $S^prime$, at distance $s$ from $O$ and $C$, respectively, on extensions of $overline{AO}$ and $overline{BC}$. Note that $tan angle ASC = b/(a+s) = tantheta$, so that $angle ASC = theta$.


          • Let $K$ be the center of $square OACB$ (constructed, say, as the intersection of the rectangle's two diagonals). If $bigcirc K$ has diameter $s$, then $overline{SC}$ and $overline{S^prime O}$ meet $bigcirc K$ at $C^prime$ and $O^prime$, respectively.


          • Finally, $A^prime$ is where the perpendicular to $overline{C^prime O^prime}$ at $C^prime$ meets $overleftrightarrow{AC}$. Similarly for $B^prime$.



          (Incidentally, the extraneous solution corresponds to taking $overline{OS}$ and $overline{CS^prime}$ "pointing the other way". That is, we can take $s$ to be negative in the above analysis. We see that the sign change has no effect on $(star)$, so that the radius $r$ ---and thus also centers $A^prime$ and $B^prime$--- remains unchanged. Therefore, the extraneous $C^prime$ and $O^prime$ are the "other" points where $bigcirc A^prime$ and $bigcirc B^prime$ meet $bigcirc K$.)






          share|cite|improve this answer











          $endgroup$



          I'll coordinatize the $square OACB$ with
          $$O = (0,0) qquad A = (a,0) qquad B = (0,b) qquad C = (a,b)$$
          The centers of the arcs will be at
          $$A^prime = C - (0,r) qquad B^prime = O + (0,r)$$
          Let $C^prime$ be the image of $C$ rotated about $A^prime$ by angle $2theta$, and $O^prime$ the image of $O$ rotated about $B^prime$:
          $$C^prime = left(;a - r sin 2theta, b - r (1-cos 2theta);right)$$
          $$O^prime = left(;r sin 2theta, r (1 - cos 2theta);right)$$



          Then the S-curve conditions are that $|O^prime C^prime|=s$, and $overline{O^prime C^prime}perp overline{C^prime A^prime}$. That is,
          $$begin{align}
          (O^prime-C^prime)cdot(O^prime-C^prime) &= s^2 tag{1a} \
          (O^prime-C^prime)cdot(C^prime-A^prime) &= 0 tag{1b}
          end{align}$$
          These imply
          $$begin{align}
          4 r left(; a sin 2theta - (b - 2 r) cos 2theta ;right) &= a^2 + b^2 - 4 b r + 8 r^2 - s^2 tag{2a} \
          a sin 2theta - (b - 2 r) cos 2thetaphantom{left.;,right)} &= 2 r tag{2b}\
          end{align}$$



          Eliminating $theta$ is surprisingly easy, as is solving for $r$.




          $$r = frac{1}{4b}left(a^2+b^2-s^2right) tag{$star$}$$




          Back-substituting to get $theta$ is a little trickier, but we ultimately get
          $$cos 2theta = frac{(a - b + s) (a + b + s)}{
          (a+s)^2 + b^2} quadtext{or}quad frac{(a - b - s) (a + b - s)}{
          (a-s)^2+b^2}$$
          The latter of these turns out to be extraneous. The former yields this more-convenient form:




          $$tan theta = frac{b}{a+s} tag{$starstar$}$$




          The simplicity of $(starstar)$ suggests that there should be a way to see this solution; as it turns out, there's also a straightforward construction:



          enter image description here




          • We introduce $S$ and $S^prime$, at distance $s$ from $O$ and $C$, respectively, on extensions of $overline{AO}$ and $overline{BC}$. Note that $tan angle ASC = b/(a+s) = tantheta$, so that $angle ASC = theta$.


          • Let $K$ be the center of $square OACB$ (constructed, say, as the intersection of the rectangle's two diagonals). If $bigcirc K$ has diameter $s$, then $overline{SC}$ and $overline{S^prime O}$ meet $bigcirc K$ at $C^prime$ and $O^prime$, respectively.


          • Finally, $A^prime$ is where the perpendicular to $overline{C^prime O^prime}$ at $C^prime$ meets $overleftrightarrow{AC}$. Similarly for $B^prime$.



          (Incidentally, the extraneous solution corresponds to taking $overline{OS}$ and $overline{CS^prime}$ "pointing the other way". That is, we can take $s$ to be negative in the above analysis. We see that the sign change has no effect on $(star)$, so that the radius $r$ ---and thus also centers $A^prime$ and $B^prime$--- remains unchanged. Therefore, the extraneous $C^prime$ and $O^prime$ are the "other" points where $bigcirc A^prime$ and $bigcirc B^prime$ meet $bigcirc K$.)







          share|cite|improve this answer














          share|cite|improve this answer



          share|cite|improve this answer








          edited May 15 '18 at 6:44

























          answered May 15 '18 at 5:56









          BlueBlue

          47.8k870152




          47.8k870152








          • 1




            $begingroup$
            Great answer, especially the second part where you “show” why we have such a simple solution
            $endgroup$
            – b00n heT
            Jan 8 at 12:35
















          • 1




            $begingroup$
            Great answer, especially the second part where you “show” why we have such a simple solution
            $endgroup$
            – b00n heT
            Jan 8 at 12:35










          1




          1




          $begingroup$
          Great answer, especially the second part where you “show” why we have such a simple solution
          $endgroup$
          – b00n heT
          Jan 8 at 12:35






          $begingroup$
          Great answer, especially the second part where you “show” why we have such a simple solution
          $endgroup$
          – b00n heT
          Jan 8 at 12:35




















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