Find all solutions in an equation with permutations in $S_{10}$
$begingroup$
Let $sigma=begin{pmatrix} 1 & 2 & 3 & 4 & 5 & 6 & 7 & 8 & 9 & 10 \
2 & 9 & 5 & 7 & 10 & 3 & 4 & 6 & 1 & 8end{pmatrix} in S_{10}.$
Find all permutations $tau in S_{10}$ where $tau^3 = sigma.$
My first intuition was to multiply the equation with $sigma^{-1}$ so it would look like this: $tau^3 sigma^{-1} = sigmasigma^{-1}$, which would result in $tau^3 sigma^{-1} =e$.
I am not sure how to advance from here. I know how to calculate the order of $sigma$, its number of inversions and the signature, but I don't know how I would use that information towards solving this problem.
permutations
$endgroup$
|
show 2 more comments
$begingroup$
Let $sigma=begin{pmatrix} 1 & 2 & 3 & 4 & 5 & 6 & 7 & 8 & 9 & 10 \
2 & 9 & 5 & 7 & 10 & 3 & 4 & 6 & 1 & 8end{pmatrix} in S_{10}.$
Find all permutations $tau in S_{10}$ where $tau^3 = sigma.$
My first intuition was to multiply the equation with $sigma^{-1}$ so it would look like this: $tau^3 sigma^{-1} = sigmasigma^{-1}$, which would result in $tau^3 sigma^{-1} =e$.
I am not sure how to advance from here. I know how to calculate the order of $sigma$, its number of inversions and the signature, but I don't know how I would use that information towards solving this problem.
permutations
$endgroup$
1
$begingroup$
Factor $sigma$ into disjoint chains. There are three.
$endgroup$
– copper.hat
Jan 25 at 23:12
2
$begingroup$
$sigma = (1, 2, 9)(3, 5, 10, 8, 6)(4, 7)$, in disjoint cycles. How does this help me though?
$endgroup$
– bitadept
Jan 25 at 23:17
$begingroup$
I don't understand this part: $tau^3$ must contain $a^3=e$ to some power.
$endgroup$
– bitadept
Jan 25 at 23:45
1
$begingroup$
Let me check what I am smoking first...
$endgroup$
– copper.hat
Jan 25 at 23:50
1
$begingroup$
I added a slightly less embarrassing approach below.
$endgroup$
– copper.hat
Jan 27 at 6:59
|
show 2 more comments
$begingroup$
Let $sigma=begin{pmatrix} 1 & 2 & 3 & 4 & 5 & 6 & 7 & 8 & 9 & 10 \
2 & 9 & 5 & 7 & 10 & 3 & 4 & 6 & 1 & 8end{pmatrix} in S_{10}.$
Find all permutations $tau in S_{10}$ where $tau^3 = sigma.$
My first intuition was to multiply the equation with $sigma^{-1}$ so it would look like this: $tau^3 sigma^{-1} = sigmasigma^{-1}$, which would result in $tau^3 sigma^{-1} =e$.
I am not sure how to advance from here. I know how to calculate the order of $sigma$, its number of inversions and the signature, but I don't know how I would use that information towards solving this problem.
permutations
$endgroup$
Let $sigma=begin{pmatrix} 1 & 2 & 3 & 4 & 5 & 6 & 7 & 8 & 9 & 10 \
2 & 9 & 5 & 7 & 10 & 3 & 4 & 6 & 1 & 8end{pmatrix} in S_{10}.$
Find all permutations $tau in S_{10}$ where $tau^3 = sigma.$
My first intuition was to multiply the equation with $sigma^{-1}$ so it would look like this: $tau^3 sigma^{-1} = sigmasigma^{-1}$, which would result in $tau^3 sigma^{-1} =e$.
I am not sure how to advance from here. I know how to calculate the order of $sigma$, its number of inversions and the signature, but I don't know how I would use that information towards solving this problem.
permutations
permutations
edited Jan 27 at 12:20
Martin Sleziak
44.9k10119273
44.9k10119273
asked Jan 25 at 23:10
bitadeptbitadept
475
475
1
$begingroup$
Factor $sigma$ into disjoint chains. There are three.
$endgroup$
– copper.hat
Jan 25 at 23:12
2
$begingroup$
$sigma = (1, 2, 9)(3, 5, 10, 8, 6)(4, 7)$, in disjoint cycles. How does this help me though?
$endgroup$
– bitadept
Jan 25 at 23:17
$begingroup$
I don't understand this part: $tau^3$ must contain $a^3=e$ to some power.
$endgroup$
– bitadept
Jan 25 at 23:45
1
$begingroup$
Let me check what I am smoking first...
$endgroup$
– copper.hat
Jan 25 at 23:50
1
$begingroup$
I added a slightly less embarrassing approach below.
$endgroup$
– copper.hat
Jan 27 at 6:59
|
show 2 more comments
1
$begingroup$
Factor $sigma$ into disjoint chains. There are three.
$endgroup$
– copper.hat
Jan 25 at 23:12
2
$begingroup$
$sigma = (1, 2, 9)(3, 5, 10, 8, 6)(4, 7)$, in disjoint cycles. How does this help me though?
$endgroup$
– bitadept
Jan 25 at 23:17
$begingroup$
I don't understand this part: $tau^3$ must contain $a^3=e$ to some power.
$endgroup$
– bitadept
Jan 25 at 23:45
1
$begingroup$
Let me check what I am smoking first...
$endgroup$
– copper.hat
Jan 25 at 23:50
1
$begingroup$
I added a slightly less embarrassing approach below.
$endgroup$
– copper.hat
Jan 27 at 6:59
1
1
$begingroup$
Factor $sigma$ into disjoint chains. There are three.
$endgroup$
– copper.hat
Jan 25 at 23:12
$begingroup$
Factor $sigma$ into disjoint chains. There are three.
$endgroup$
– copper.hat
Jan 25 at 23:12
2
2
$begingroup$
$sigma = (1, 2, 9)(3, 5, 10, 8, 6)(4, 7)$, in disjoint cycles. How does this help me though?
$endgroup$
– bitadept
Jan 25 at 23:17
$begingroup$
$sigma = (1, 2, 9)(3, 5, 10, 8, 6)(4, 7)$, in disjoint cycles. How does this help me though?
$endgroup$
– bitadept
Jan 25 at 23:17
$begingroup$
I don't understand this part: $tau^3$ must contain $a^3=e$ to some power.
$endgroup$
– bitadept
Jan 25 at 23:45
$begingroup$
I don't understand this part: $tau^3$ must contain $a^3=e$ to some power.
$endgroup$
– bitadept
Jan 25 at 23:45
1
1
$begingroup$
Let me check what I am smoking first...
$endgroup$
– copper.hat
Jan 25 at 23:50
$begingroup$
Let me check what I am smoking first...
$endgroup$
– copper.hat
Jan 25 at 23:50
1
1
$begingroup$
I added a slightly less embarrassing approach below.
$endgroup$
– copper.hat
Jan 27 at 6:59
$begingroup$
I added a slightly less embarrassing approach below.
$endgroup$
– copper.hat
Jan 27 at 6:59
|
show 2 more comments
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
$begingroup$
The presence of a single $3$-cycle in $sigma=(1,2,9)(4,7)(3,5,10,8,6)$ kills all hope for a solution to $tau^3=sigma$.
- We see that $operatorname{ord}(sigma)=operatorname{lcm}{3,5,2}=30$.
- Recall the basic fact (from the theory of cyclic groups): if $c$ has order $n$, then $c^k$ has order $n/gcd(n,k)$. So if $tau$ has order $m$, then we must have $m/gcd(m,3)=30$ implying $m=90$.
- But there are no element of order $90$ in $S_{10}$. The smallest symmetric group with elements of order $90$ is $S_{16}$ where there is room for a permutation of cycle type $(9,5,2)$.
- A different argument woud be to observe that $tau^{10}$ would have order $9$, meaning that $tau^{10}$ must be a $9$-cycle. This would imply that $tau^{30}$ is a product of three disjoint $3$-cycles. But, $tau^3=sigma$ implies that $tau^{30}=sigma^{10}=(129)$, a single $3$-cycle. This is a contradiction.
The conclusion is that the cube of a permutation $tauin S_n$, no matter what $n$ is, cannot have a single $3$-cycle in its cycle decomposition. The analogous result holds for all primes $p$: the $p$th power of a permutation cannot have a single $p$-cycle (the number of $p$-cycles in a $p$th power must be a multiple of $p$).
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Here is a much more pedestrian approach:
Suppose there is some $r$ such that $r^3 = sigma$.
Note that $sigma$ can be written uniquely (modulo order) as $sigma = a b c$, where $a,b,c$ are disjoint cycles of length $2,3,5$ respectively. In particular, $sigma$
contains a cycle of length $3$.
Let $r=d_1...d_m$, where $d_k$ are disjoint cycles. Hence $r^3 = d_1^3 ... d_m^3$
Some work shows that if $d$ is a cycle of length $l(d)$, then $d^3$ will
have (possibly multiple) cycles of length:
begin{array}{|c|c|c|c|}
hline
l(d)& 1 & 2 & 3 & 4 & 5 & 6 & 7 & 8 & 9 & 10 \
hline
l(d^3) & 1 & 2 & 1 & 4 & 5 & 2 & 7 & 8 & 3 & 10 \
hline
end{array}
Hence one of the $d_i$ must have length $9$ and hence the others must be trivial, but this
is a contradiction.
Hence there is no such $r$.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
$tau^3=sigma implies tau^{90}=e$, since $|sigma|=30$. So $|tau|mid 90$.
It follows that the cycle decomposition of $tau$ can consist only in cycles of length (order) dividing $90$;
hence of length $1,2,3,5,6,9$ or $10$.
None of these gives a $3$-cycle when cubed. The cube of a $2$ cycle is another $2$ cycle. The cube of a $3$ cycle is $e$. The cube of a $5$ cycle is another $5$ cycle. The cube of a $6$ cycle is a product of three $2$ cycles. The cube of a $9$-cycle is the product of three $3$-cycles.
Finally, the cube of a $10$ cycle is another $10$ cycle.
But $sigma =(129)(351086)(47)$.
So there are no solutions.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
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3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
$begingroup$
The presence of a single $3$-cycle in $sigma=(1,2,9)(4,7)(3,5,10,8,6)$ kills all hope for a solution to $tau^3=sigma$.
- We see that $operatorname{ord}(sigma)=operatorname{lcm}{3,5,2}=30$.
- Recall the basic fact (from the theory of cyclic groups): if $c$ has order $n$, then $c^k$ has order $n/gcd(n,k)$. So if $tau$ has order $m$, then we must have $m/gcd(m,3)=30$ implying $m=90$.
- But there are no element of order $90$ in $S_{10}$. The smallest symmetric group with elements of order $90$ is $S_{16}$ where there is room for a permutation of cycle type $(9,5,2)$.
- A different argument woud be to observe that $tau^{10}$ would have order $9$, meaning that $tau^{10}$ must be a $9$-cycle. This would imply that $tau^{30}$ is a product of three disjoint $3$-cycles. But, $tau^3=sigma$ implies that $tau^{30}=sigma^{10}=(129)$, a single $3$-cycle. This is a contradiction.
The conclusion is that the cube of a permutation $tauin S_n$, no matter what $n$ is, cannot have a single $3$-cycle in its cycle decomposition. The analogous result holds for all primes $p$: the $p$th power of a permutation cannot have a single $p$-cycle (the number of $p$-cycles in a $p$th power must be a multiple of $p$).
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
The presence of a single $3$-cycle in $sigma=(1,2,9)(4,7)(3,5,10,8,6)$ kills all hope for a solution to $tau^3=sigma$.
- We see that $operatorname{ord}(sigma)=operatorname{lcm}{3,5,2}=30$.
- Recall the basic fact (from the theory of cyclic groups): if $c$ has order $n$, then $c^k$ has order $n/gcd(n,k)$. So if $tau$ has order $m$, then we must have $m/gcd(m,3)=30$ implying $m=90$.
- But there are no element of order $90$ in $S_{10}$. The smallest symmetric group with elements of order $90$ is $S_{16}$ where there is room for a permutation of cycle type $(9,5,2)$.
- A different argument woud be to observe that $tau^{10}$ would have order $9$, meaning that $tau^{10}$ must be a $9$-cycle. This would imply that $tau^{30}$ is a product of three disjoint $3$-cycles. But, $tau^3=sigma$ implies that $tau^{30}=sigma^{10}=(129)$, a single $3$-cycle. This is a contradiction.
The conclusion is that the cube of a permutation $tauin S_n$, no matter what $n$ is, cannot have a single $3$-cycle in its cycle decomposition. The analogous result holds for all primes $p$: the $p$th power of a permutation cannot have a single $p$-cycle (the number of $p$-cycles in a $p$th power must be a multiple of $p$).
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
The presence of a single $3$-cycle in $sigma=(1,2,9)(4,7)(3,5,10,8,6)$ kills all hope for a solution to $tau^3=sigma$.
- We see that $operatorname{ord}(sigma)=operatorname{lcm}{3,5,2}=30$.
- Recall the basic fact (from the theory of cyclic groups): if $c$ has order $n$, then $c^k$ has order $n/gcd(n,k)$. So if $tau$ has order $m$, then we must have $m/gcd(m,3)=30$ implying $m=90$.
- But there are no element of order $90$ in $S_{10}$. The smallest symmetric group with elements of order $90$ is $S_{16}$ where there is room for a permutation of cycle type $(9,5,2)$.
- A different argument woud be to observe that $tau^{10}$ would have order $9$, meaning that $tau^{10}$ must be a $9$-cycle. This would imply that $tau^{30}$ is a product of three disjoint $3$-cycles. But, $tau^3=sigma$ implies that $tau^{30}=sigma^{10}=(129)$, a single $3$-cycle. This is a contradiction.
The conclusion is that the cube of a permutation $tauin S_n$, no matter what $n$ is, cannot have a single $3$-cycle in its cycle decomposition. The analogous result holds for all primes $p$: the $p$th power of a permutation cannot have a single $p$-cycle (the number of $p$-cycles in a $p$th power must be a multiple of $p$).
$endgroup$
The presence of a single $3$-cycle in $sigma=(1,2,9)(4,7)(3,5,10,8,6)$ kills all hope for a solution to $tau^3=sigma$.
- We see that $operatorname{ord}(sigma)=operatorname{lcm}{3,5,2}=30$.
- Recall the basic fact (from the theory of cyclic groups): if $c$ has order $n$, then $c^k$ has order $n/gcd(n,k)$. So if $tau$ has order $m$, then we must have $m/gcd(m,3)=30$ implying $m=90$.
- But there are no element of order $90$ in $S_{10}$. The smallest symmetric group with elements of order $90$ is $S_{16}$ where there is room for a permutation of cycle type $(9,5,2)$.
- A different argument woud be to observe that $tau^{10}$ would have order $9$, meaning that $tau^{10}$ must be a $9$-cycle. This would imply that $tau^{30}$ is a product of three disjoint $3$-cycles. But, $tau^3=sigma$ implies that $tau^{30}=sigma^{10}=(129)$, a single $3$-cycle. This is a contradiction.
The conclusion is that the cube of a permutation $tauin S_n$, no matter what $n$ is, cannot have a single $3$-cycle in its cycle decomposition. The analogous result holds for all primes $p$: the $p$th power of a permutation cannot have a single $p$-cycle (the number of $p$-cycles in a $p$th power must be a multiple of $p$).
answered Jan 26 at 7:02
Jyrki LahtonenJyrki Lahtonen
110k13171385
110k13171385
add a comment |
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Here is a much more pedestrian approach:
Suppose there is some $r$ such that $r^3 = sigma$.
Note that $sigma$ can be written uniquely (modulo order) as $sigma = a b c$, where $a,b,c$ are disjoint cycles of length $2,3,5$ respectively. In particular, $sigma$
contains a cycle of length $3$.
Let $r=d_1...d_m$, where $d_k$ are disjoint cycles. Hence $r^3 = d_1^3 ... d_m^3$
Some work shows that if $d$ is a cycle of length $l(d)$, then $d^3$ will
have (possibly multiple) cycles of length:
begin{array}{|c|c|c|c|}
hline
l(d)& 1 & 2 & 3 & 4 & 5 & 6 & 7 & 8 & 9 & 10 \
hline
l(d^3) & 1 & 2 & 1 & 4 & 5 & 2 & 7 & 8 & 3 & 10 \
hline
end{array}
Hence one of the $d_i$ must have length $9$ and hence the others must be trivial, but this
is a contradiction.
Hence there is no such $r$.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Here is a much more pedestrian approach:
Suppose there is some $r$ such that $r^3 = sigma$.
Note that $sigma$ can be written uniquely (modulo order) as $sigma = a b c$, where $a,b,c$ are disjoint cycles of length $2,3,5$ respectively. In particular, $sigma$
contains a cycle of length $3$.
Let $r=d_1...d_m$, where $d_k$ are disjoint cycles. Hence $r^3 = d_1^3 ... d_m^3$
Some work shows that if $d$ is a cycle of length $l(d)$, then $d^3$ will
have (possibly multiple) cycles of length:
begin{array}{|c|c|c|c|}
hline
l(d)& 1 & 2 & 3 & 4 & 5 & 6 & 7 & 8 & 9 & 10 \
hline
l(d^3) & 1 & 2 & 1 & 4 & 5 & 2 & 7 & 8 & 3 & 10 \
hline
end{array}
Hence one of the $d_i$ must have length $9$ and hence the others must be trivial, but this
is a contradiction.
Hence there is no such $r$.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Here is a much more pedestrian approach:
Suppose there is some $r$ such that $r^3 = sigma$.
Note that $sigma$ can be written uniquely (modulo order) as $sigma = a b c$, where $a,b,c$ are disjoint cycles of length $2,3,5$ respectively. In particular, $sigma$
contains a cycle of length $3$.
Let $r=d_1...d_m$, where $d_k$ are disjoint cycles. Hence $r^3 = d_1^3 ... d_m^3$
Some work shows that if $d$ is a cycle of length $l(d)$, then $d^3$ will
have (possibly multiple) cycles of length:
begin{array}{|c|c|c|c|}
hline
l(d)& 1 & 2 & 3 & 4 & 5 & 6 & 7 & 8 & 9 & 10 \
hline
l(d^3) & 1 & 2 & 1 & 4 & 5 & 2 & 7 & 8 & 3 & 10 \
hline
end{array}
Hence one of the $d_i$ must have length $9$ and hence the others must be trivial, but this
is a contradiction.
Hence there is no such $r$.
$endgroup$
Here is a much more pedestrian approach:
Suppose there is some $r$ such that $r^3 = sigma$.
Note that $sigma$ can be written uniquely (modulo order) as $sigma = a b c$, where $a,b,c$ are disjoint cycles of length $2,3,5$ respectively. In particular, $sigma$
contains a cycle of length $3$.
Let $r=d_1...d_m$, where $d_k$ are disjoint cycles. Hence $r^3 = d_1^3 ... d_m^3$
Some work shows that if $d$ is a cycle of length $l(d)$, then $d^3$ will
have (possibly multiple) cycles of length:
begin{array}{|c|c|c|c|}
hline
l(d)& 1 & 2 & 3 & 4 & 5 & 6 & 7 & 8 & 9 & 10 \
hline
l(d^3) & 1 & 2 & 1 & 4 & 5 & 2 & 7 & 8 & 3 & 10 \
hline
end{array}
Hence one of the $d_i$ must have length $9$ and hence the others must be trivial, but this
is a contradiction.
Hence there is no such $r$.
answered Jan 27 at 6:58
copper.hatcopper.hat
127k559160
127k559160
add a comment |
add a comment |
$begingroup$
$tau^3=sigma implies tau^{90}=e$, since $|sigma|=30$. So $|tau|mid 90$.
It follows that the cycle decomposition of $tau$ can consist only in cycles of length (order) dividing $90$;
hence of length $1,2,3,5,6,9$ or $10$.
None of these gives a $3$-cycle when cubed. The cube of a $2$ cycle is another $2$ cycle. The cube of a $3$ cycle is $e$. The cube of a $5$ cycle is another $5$ cycle. The cube of a $6$ cycle is a product of three $2$ cycles. The cube of a $9$-cycle is the product of three $3$-cycles.
Finally, the cube of a $10$ cycle is another $10$ cycle.
But $sigma =(129)(351086)(47)$.
So there are no solutions.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
$tau^3=sigma implies tau^{90}=e$, since $|sigma|=30$. So $|tau|mid 90$.
It follows that the cycle decomposition of $tau$ can consist only in cycles of length (order) dividing $90$;
hence of length $1,2,3,5,6,9$ or $10$.
None of these gives a $3$-cycle when cubed. The cube of a $2$ cycle is another $2$ cycle. The cube of a $3$ cycle is $e$. The cube of a $5$ cycle is another $5$ cycle. The cube of a $6$ cycle is a product of three $2$ cycles. The cube of a $9$-cycle is the product of three $3$-cycles.
Finally, the cube of a $10$ cycle is another $10$ cycle.
But $sigma =(129)(351086)(47)$.
So there are no solutions.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
$tau^3=sigma implies tau^{90}=e$, since $|sigma|=30$. So $|tau|mid 90$.
It follows that the cycle decomposition of $tau$ can consist only in cycles of length (order) dividing $90$;
hence of length $1,2,3,5,6,9$ or $10$.
None of these gives a $3$-cycle when cubed. The cube of a $2$ cycle is another $2$ cycle. The cube of a $3$ cycle is $e$. The cube of a $5$ cycle is another $5$ cycle. The cube of a $6$ cycle is a product of three $2$ cycles. The cube of a $9$-cycle is the product of three $3$-cycles.
Finally, the cube of a $10$ cycle is another $10$ cycle.
But $sigma =(129)(351086)(47)$.
So there are no solutions.
$endgroup$
$tau^3=sigma implies tau^{90}=e$, since $|sigma|=30$. So $|tau|mid 90$.
It follows that the cycle decomposition of $tau$ can consist only in cycles of length (order) dividing $90$;
hence of length $1,2,3,5,6,9$ or $10$.
None of these gives a $3$-cycle when cubed. The cube of a $2$ cycle is another $2$ cycle. The cube of a $3$ cycle is $e$. The cube of a $5$ cycle is another $5$ cycle. The cube of a $6$ cycle is a product of three $2$ cycles. The cube of a $9$-cycle is the product of three $3$-cycles.
Finally, the cube of a $10$ cycle is another $10$ cycle.
But $sigma =(129)(351086)(47)$.
So there are no solutions.
edited Jan 27 at 12:22
Martin Sleziak
44.9k10119273
44.9k10119273
answered Jan 26 at 3:45
Chris CusterChris Custer
14.2k3827
14.2k3827
add a comment |
add a comment |
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1
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Factor $sigma$ into disjoint chains. There are three.
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– copper.hat
Jan 25 at 23:12
2
$begingroup$
$sigma = (1, 2, 9)(3, 5, 10, 8, 6)(4, 7)$, in disjoint cycles. How does this help me though?
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– bitadept
Jan 25 at 23:17
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I don't understand this part: $tau^3$ must contain $a^3=e$ to some power.
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– bitadept
Jan 25 at 23:45
1
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Let me check what I am smoking first...
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– copper.hat
Jan 25 at 23:50
1
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I added a slightly less embarrassing approach below.
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– copper.hat
Jan 27 at 6:59