if $f,g$ are linear transformations, find basis of $ operatorname{im}(f) cap ker(f circ g) $ and $...












3














I have done this task, however, my solutions are suspiciously strange. Could someone verify if my reasoning is okay? Possibly something to advise ...

If all is ok (I hope), this post would be nice pattern for future visitors



Task



Given are linear transformations:
$f in L(mathbb R^3, mathbb R[t]_2) $



$$ vec{x} = [x_1,x_2,x_3]^T rightarrow f(vec{x})(t)=(x_1+x_3)t^2 + x_2$$
and
$g in L(mathbb R[t]_2,mathbb R^3) $
$$p in mathbb R[t]_2 rightarrow g(p) = [p(-1),p'(0),p(1)]^T $$



Find basis of subspace:

a) $ operatorname{im}(f) cap ker(f circ g) $

b) $ operatorname{im}(g circ f) + ker(f) $



My solution



a)



Take a random polynomial:
$$p(t) = at^2 + bt + c $$
$$p(1) = a + b + c $$
$$p(-1) = a - b +c $$
$$p'(0) = b $$
so $ g(p) = [a-b+c,b,a+b+c]^T $

Ok now we are looking for $ fcirc g $
$$f(g(p)) = 2(a+c)t^2 + b $$
Ok, now I want its kernel:
$$f(g(p)) = 0 leftrightarrow a = - c wedge b = 0$$
so $ker(fcirc g) = operatorname{span}[1,0,-1]^T $


I need also $ operatorname{im}(f)$ so $$ operatorname{im}(f) = operatorname{span}([1,0,0]^T,[0,1,0]^T)$$
but
$$ ([1,0,0]^T,[0,1,0]^T,[1,0,-1]^T $$
are linearly independent so $ operatorname{im}(f) cap ker(f circ g) = 0 $



b)



Now I am looking for $ operatorname{im}(g circ f)$
$$g(f(vec{x})) = [x_1+x_2+x_3,0,x_1+x_2+x_3]^T = operatorname{span}([1,0,1]^T) = operatorname{im}(g circ f)$$
Now $ker(f)$
$$ f(vec{x})(t)=(x_1+x_3)t^2 + x_2 = 0 leftrightarrow x_1 = -x_3 wedge x_2 = 0$$
so
$$ker(f) = operatorname{span}([1,0,-1]^T)$$



Ok now we are looking for:
$$ operatorname{im}(g circ f) + ker(f) = operatorname{span}([1,0,-1]^T,[1,0,1]^T) $$
but $[1,0,-1]^T,[1,0,1]^T $ are linearly independent so
$ operatorname{span}([1,0,-1]^T,[1,0,1]^T) $ is a basis of $ operatorname{im}(g circ f) + ker(f) $

Thanks for your time!










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  • I think you meant to write that $gin L(mathbb R[t]_2, mathbb R^3)$. Otherwise the compositions (and the way $g$ was defined) don't make sense.
    – Math1000
    2 days ago
















3














I have done this task, however, my solutions are suspiciously strange. Could someone verify if my reasoning is okay? Possibly something to advise ...

If all is ok (I hope), this post would be nice pattern for future visitors



Task



Given are linear transformations:
$f in L(mathbb R^3, mathbb R[t]_2) $



$$ vec{x} = [x_1,x_2,x_3]^T rightarrow f(vec{x})(t)=(x_1+x_3)t^2 + x_2$$
and
$g in L(mathbb R[t]_2,mathbb R^3) $
$$p in mathbb R[t]_2 rightarrow g(p) = [p(-1),p'(0),p(1)]^T $$



Find basis of subspace:

a) $ operatorname{im}(f) cap ker(f circ g) $

b) $ operatorname{im}(g circ f) + ker(f) $



My solution



a)



Take a random polynomial:
$$p(t) = at^2 + bt + c $$
$$p(1) = a + b + c $$
$$p(-1) = a - b +c $$
$$p'(0) = b $$
so $ g(p) = [a-b+c,b,a+b+c]^T $

Ok now we are looking for $ fcirc g $
$$f(g(p)) = 2(a+c)t^2 + b $$
Ok, now I want its kernel:
$$f(g(p)) = 0 leftrightarrow a = - c wedge b = 0$$
so $ker(fcirc g) = operatorname{span}[1,0,-1]^T $


I need also $ operatorname{im}(f)$ so $$ operatorname{im}(f) = operatorname{span}([1,0,0]^T,[0,1,0]^T)$$
but
$$ ([1,0,0]^T,[0,1,0]^T,[1,0,-1]^T $$
are linearly independent so $ operatorname{im}(f) cap ker(f circ g) = 0 $



b)



Now I am looking for $ operatorname{im}(g circ f)$
$$g(f(vec{x})) = [x_1+x_2+x_3,0,x_1+x_2+x_3]^T = operatorname{span}([1,0,1]^T) = operatorname{im}(g circ f)$$
Now $ker(f)$
$$ f(vec{x})(t)=(x_1+x_3)t^2 + x_2 = 0 leftrightarrow x_1 = -x_3 wedge x_2 = 0$$
so
$$ker(f) = operatorname{span}([1,0,-1]^T)$$



Ok now we are looking for:
$$ operatorname{im}(g circ f) + ker(f) = operatorname{span}([1,0,-1]^T,[1,0,1]^T) $$
but $[1,0,-1]^T,[1,0,1]^T $ are linearly independent so
$ operatorname{span}([1,0,-1]^T,[1,0,1]^T) $ is a basis of $ operatorname{im}(g circ f) + ker(f) $

Thanks for your time!










share|cite|improve this question
























  • I think you meant to write that $gin L(mathbb R[t]_2, mathbb R^3)$. Otherwise the compositions (and the way $g$ was defined) don't make sense.
    – Math1000
    2 days ago














3












3








3


1





I have done this task, however, my solutions are suspiciously strange. Could someone verify if my reasoning is okay? Possibly something to advise ...

If all is ok (I hope), this post would be nice pattern for future visitors



Task



Given are linear transformations:
$f in L(mathbb R^3, mathbb R[t]_2) $



$$ vec{x} = [x_1,x_2,x_3]^T rightarrow f(vec{x})(t)=(x_1+x_3)t^2 + x_2$$
and
$g in L(mathbb R[t]_2,mathbb R^3) $
$$p in mathbb R[t]_2 rightarrow g(p) = [p(-1),p'(0),p(1)]^T $$



Find basis of subspace:

a) $ operatorname{im}(f) cap ker(f circ g) $

b) $ operatorname{im}(g circ f) + ker(f) $



My solution



a)



Take a random polynomial:
$$p(t) = at^2 + bt + c $$
$$p(1) = a + b + c $$
$$p(-1) = a - b +c $$
$$p'(0) = b $$
so $ g(p) = [a-b+c,b,a+b+c]^T $

Ok now we are looking for $ fcirc g $
$$f(g(p)) = 2(a+c)t^2 + b $$
Ok, now I want its kernel:
$$f(g(p)) = 0 leftrightarrow a = - c wedge b = 0$$
so $ker(fcirc g) = operatorname{span}[1,0,-1]^T $


I need also $ operatorname{im}(f)$ so $$ operatorname{im}(f) = operatorname{span}([1,0,0]^T,[0,1,0]^T)$$
but
$$ ([1,0,0]^T,[0,1,0]^T,[1,0,-1]^T $$
are linearly independent so $ operatorname{im}(f) cap ker(f circ g) = 0 $



b)



Now I am looking for $ operatorname{im}(g circ f)$
$$g(f(vec{x})) = [x_1+x_2+x_3,0,x_1+x_2+x_3]^T = operatorname{span}([1,0,1]^T) = operatorname{im}(g circ f)$$
Now $ker(f)$
$$ f(vec{x})(t)=(x_1+x_3)t^2 + x_2 = 0 leftrightarrow x_1 = -x_3 wedge x_2 = 0$$
so
$$ker(f) = operatorname{span}([1,0,-1]^T)$$



Ok now we are looking for:
$$ operatorname{im}(g circ f) + ker(f) = operatorname{span}([1,0,-1]^T,[1,0,1]^T) $$
but $[1,0,-1]^T,[1,0,1]^T $ are linearly independent so
$ operatorname{span}([1,0,-1]^T,[1,0,1]^T) $ is a basis of $ operatorname{im}(g circ f) + ker(f) $

Thanks for your time!










share|cite|improve this question















I have done this task, however, my solutions are suspiciously strange. Could someone verify if my reasoning is okay? Possibly something to advise ...

If all is ok (I hope), this post would be nice pattern for future visitors



Task



Given are linear transformations:
$f in L(mathbb R^3, mathbb R[t]_2) $



$$ vec{x} = [x_1,x_2,x_3]^T rightarrow f(vec{x})(t)=(x_1+x_3)t^2 + x_2$$
and
$g in L(mathbb R[t]_2,mathbb R^3) $
$$p in mathbb R[t]_2 rightarrow g(p) = [p(-1),p'(0),p(1)]^T $$



Find basis of subspace:

a) $ operatorname{im}(f) cap ker(f circ g) $

b) $ operatorname{im}(g circ f) + ker(f) $



My solution



a)



Take a random polynomial:
$$p(t) = at^2 + bt + c $$
$$p(1) = a + b + c $$
$$p(-1) = a - b +c $$
$$p'(0) = b $$
so $ g(p) = [a-b+c,b,a+b+c]^T $

Ok now we are looking for $ fcirc g $
$$f(g(p)) = 2(a+c)t^2 + b $$
Ok, now I want its kernel:
$$f(g(p)) = 0 leftrightarrow a = - c wedge b = 0$$
so $ker(fcirc g) = operatorname{span}[1,0,-1]^T $


I need also $ operatorname{im}(f)$ so $$ operatorname{im}(f) = operatorname{span}([1,0,0]^T,[0,1,0]^T)$$
but
$$ ([1,0,0]^T,[0,1,0]^T,[1,0,-1]^T $$
are linearly independent so $ operatorname{im}(f) cap ker(f circ g) = 0 $



b)



Now I am looking for $ operatorname{im}(g circ f)$
$$g(f(vec{x})) = [x_1+x_2+x_3,0,x_1+x_2+x_3]^T = operatorname{span}([1,0,1]^T) = operatorname{im}(g circ f)$$
Now $ker(f)$
$$ f(vec{x})(t)=(x_1+x_3)t^2 + x_2 = 0 leftrightarrow x_1 = -x_3 wedge x_2 = 0$$
so
$$ker(f) = operatorname{span}([1,0,-1]^T)$$



Ok now we are looking for:
$$ operatorname{im}(g circ f) + ker(f) = operatorname{span}([1,0,-1]^T,[1,0,1]^T) $$
but $[1,0,-1]^T,[1,0,1]^T $ are linearly independent so
$ operatorname{span}([1,0,-1]^T,[1,0,1]^T) $ is a basis of $ operatorname{im}(g circ f) + ker(f) $

Thanks for your time!







linear-algebra functions proof-verification linear-transformations






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edited 2 days ago







VirtualUser

















asked 2 days ago









VirtualUserVirtualUser

50012




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  • I think you meant to write that $gin L(mathbb R[t]_2, mathbb R^3)$. Otherwise the compositions (and the way $g$ was defined) don't make sense.
    – Math1000
    2 days ago


















  • I think you meant to write that $gin L(mathbb R[t]_2, mathbb R^3)$. Otherwise the compositions (and the way $g$ was defined) don't make sense.
    – Math1000
    2 days ago
















I think you meant to write that $gin L(mathbb R[t]_2, mathbb R^3)$. Otherwise the compositions (and the way $g$ was defined) don't make sense.
– Math1000
2 days ago




I think you meant to write that $gin L(mathbb R[t]_2, mathbb R^3)$. Otherwise the compositions (and the way $g$ was defined) don't make sense.
– Math1000
2 days ago










2 Answers
2






active

oldest

votes


















1














$$f(x_1,x_2,x_3)=(x_1+x_3)t^2+x_2=k_1t^2+k_2$$ So $text{Im}(f)$ is spanned by ${1,x^2}={(1,0,0),(0,0,1)}$. Clearly, $ker(fcirc g)=text{span}{(1,0,-1)}subsettext{span}{(1,0,0),(0,0,1)}=text{Im}(f)$, so the answer to part $(a)$ is $ker(fcirc g)$.



Answer to part $(b)$ is correct.






share|cite|improve this answer





















  • Ah, thanks for checking! ;)
    – VirtualUser
    2 days ago



















0














One thing I learned early: the usual terminology here is an 'arbitary' polynomial rather than a 'random' one. 'Random' implies you want to bring in probability/measure theory, which you don't.



Now onto more serious matters. It is important that when talking about $ker(f circ g)$ and $im(f)$ you recognise the space they actually live in, which is $mathbb{R}[t]_2$. Your answers aren't in $mathbb{R}[t]_2$ but $mathbb{R}^3$, so they fail to answer the question and also cause confusion. It is vital that we correct your results to be subsets of the space they should be. For instance...



$im(f)= {ax^2+b|a,b in mathbb{R}}$, for instance. Can you do the same for $ker (f circ g)$?



For the second question, can you identify $im(g circ f)$ and $ker(f)$ as subspaces of $mathbb{R}^3$?






share|cite|improve this answer





















  • Yes, I've just done that in my solution
    – VirtualUser
    2 days ago












  • @Chessanator For $(a)$, the basis vectors are $1=(1,0,0),x=(0,1,0),x^2=(0,0,1)$. The notation might be confusing but it is not wrong.
    – Shubham Johri
    2 days ago











Your Answer





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2 Answers
2






active

oldest

votes








2 Answers
2






active

oldest

votes









active

oldest

votes






active

oldest

votes









1














$$f(x_1,x_2,x_3)=(x_1+x_3)t^2+x_2=k_1t^2+k_2$$ So $text{Im}(f)$ is spanned by ${1,x^2}={(1,0,0),(0,0,1)}$. Clearly, $ker(fcirc g)=text{span}{(1,0,-1)}subsettext{span}{(1,0,0),(0,0,1)}=text{Im}(f)$, so the answer to part $(a)$ is $ker(fcirc g)$.



Answer to part $(b)$ is correct.






share|cite|improve this answer





















  • Ah, thanks for checking! ;)
    – VirtualUser
    2 days ago
















1














$$f(x_1,x_2,x_3)=(x_1+x_3)t^2+x_2=k_1t^2+k_2$$ So $text{Im}(f)$ is spanned by ${1,x^2}={(1,0,0),(0,0,1)}$. Clearly, $ker(fcirc g)=text{span}{(1,0,-1)}subsettext{span}{(1,0,0),(0,0,1)}=text{Im}(f)$, so the answer to part $(a)$ is $ker(fcirc g)$.



Answer to part $(b)$ is correct.






share|cite|improve this answer





















  • Ah, thanks for checking! ;)
    – VirtualUser
    2 days ago














1












1








1






$$f(x_1,x_2,x_3)=(x_1+x_3)t^2+x_2=k_1t^2+k_2$$ So $text{Im}(f)$ is spanned by ${1,x^2}={(1,0,0),(0,0,1)}$. Clearly, $ker(fcirc g)=text{span}{(1,0,-1)}subsettext{span}{(1,0,0),(0,0,1)}=text{Im}(f)$, so the answer to part $(a)$ is $ker(fcirc g)$.



Answer to part $(b)$ is correct.






share|cite|improve this answer












$$f(x_1,x_2,x_3)=(x_1+x_3)t^2+x_2=k_1t^2+k_2$$ So $text{Im}(f)$ is spanned by ${1,x^2}={(1,0,0),(0,0,1)}$. Clearly, $ker(fcirc g)=text{span}{(1,0,-1)}subsettext{span}{(1,0,0),(0,0,1)}=text{Im}(f)$, so the answer to part $(a)$ is $ker(fcirc g)$.



Answer to part $(b)$ is correct.







share|cite|improve this answer












share|cite|improve this answer



share|cite|improve this answer










answered 2 days ago









Shubham JohriShubham Johri

4,439717




4,439717












  • Ah, thanks for checking! ;)
    – VirtualUser
    2 days ago


















  • Ah, thanks for checking! ;)
    – VirtualUser
    2 days ago
















Ah, thanks for checking! ;)
– VirtualUser
2 days ago




Ah, thanks for checking! ;)
– VirtualUser
2 days ago











0














One thing I learned early: the usual terminology here is an 'arbitary' polynomial rather than a 'random' one. 'Random' implies you want to bring in probability/measure theory, which you don't.



Now onto more serious matters. It is important that when talking about $ker(f circ g)$ and $im(f)$ you recognise the space they actually live in, which is $mathbb{R}[t]_2$. Your answers aren't in $mathbb{R}[t]_2$ but $mathbb{R}^3$, so they fail to answer the question and also cause confusion. It is vital that we correct your results to be subsets of the space they should be. For instance...



$im(f)= {ax^2+b|a,b in mathbb{R}}$, for instance. Can you do the same for $ker (f circ g)$?



For the second question, can you identify $im(g circ f)$ and $ker(f)$ as subspaces of $mathbb{R}^3$?






share|cite|improve this answer





















  • Yes, I've just done that in my solution
    – VirtualUser
    2 days ago












  • @Chessanator For $(a)$, the basis vectors are $1=(1,0,0),x=(0,1,0),x^2=(0,0,1)$. The notation might be confusing but it is not wrong.
    – Shubham Johri
    2 days ago
















0














One thing I learned early: the usual terminology here is an 'arbitary' polynomial rather than a 'random' one. 'Random' implies you want to bring in probability/measure theory, which you don't.



Now onto more serious matters. It is important that when talking about $ker(f circ g)$ and $im(f)$ you recognise the space they actually live in, which is $mathbb{R}[t]_2$. Your answers aren't in $mathbb{R}[t]_2$ but $mathbb{R}^3$, so they fail to answer the question and also cause confusion. It is vital that we correct your results to be subsets of the space they should be. For instance...



$im(f)= {ax^2+b|a,b in mathbb{R}}$, for instance. Can you do the same for $ker (f circ g)$?



For the second question, can you identify $im(g circ f)$ and $ker(f)$ as subspaces of $mathbb{R}^3$?






share|cite|improve this answer





















  • Yes, I've just done that in my solution
    – VirtualUser
    2 days ago












  • @Chessanator For $(a)$, the basis vectors are $1=(1,0,0),x=(0,1,0),x^2=(0,0,1)$. The notation might be confusing but it is not wrong.
    – Shubham Johri
    2 days ago














0












0








0






One thing I learned early: the usual terminology here is an 'arbitary' polynomial rather than a 'random' one. 'Random' implies you want to bring in probability/measure theory, which you don't.



Now onto more serious matters. It is important that when talking about $ker(f circ g)$ and $im(f)$ you recognise the space they actually live in, which is $mathbb{R}[t]_2$. Your answers aren't in $mathbb{R}[t]_2$ but $mathbb{R}^3$, so they fail to answer the question and also cause confusion. It is vital that we correct your results to be subsets of the space they should be. For instance...



$im(f)= {ax^2+b|a,b in mathbb{R}}$, for instance. Can you do the same for $ker (f circ g)$?



For the second question, can you identify $im(g circ f)$ and $ker(f)$ as subspaces of $mathbb{R}^3$?






share|cite|improve this answer












One thing I learned early: the usual terminology here is an 'arbitary' polynomial rather than a 'random' one. 'Random' implies you want to bring in probability/measure theory, which you don't.



Now onto more serious matters. It is important that when talking about $ker(f circ g)$ and $im(f)$ you recognise the space they actually live in, which is $mathbb{R}[t]_2$. Your answers aren't in $mathbb{R}[t]_2$ but $mathbb{R}^3$, so they fail to answer the question and also cause confusion. It is vital that we correct your results to be subsets of the space they should be. For instance...



$im(f)= {ax^2+b|a,b in mathbb{R}}$, for instance. Can you do the same for $ker (f circ g)$?



For the second question, can you identify $im(g circ f)$ and $ker(f)$ as subspaces of $mathbb{R}^3$?







share|cite|improve this answer












share|cite|improve this answer



share|cite|improve this answer










answered 2 days ago









ChessanatorChessanator

1,8851411




1,8851411












  • Yes, I've just done that in my solution
    – VirtualUser
    2 days ago












  • @Chessanator For $(a)$, the basis vectors are $1=(1,0,0),x=(0,1,0),x^2=(0,0,1)$. The notation might be confusing but it is not wrong.
    – Shubham Johri
    2 days ago


















  • Yes, I've just done that in my solution
    – VirtualUser
    2 days ago












  • @Chessanator For $(a)$, the basis vectors are $1=(1,0,0),x=(0,1,0),x^2=(0,0,1)$. The notation might be confusing but it is not wrong.
    – Shubham Johri
    2 days ago
















Yes, I've just done that in my solution
– VirtualUser
2 days ago






Yes, I've just done that in my solution
– VirtualUser
2 days ago














@Chessanator For $(a)$, the basis vectors are $1=(1,0,0),x=(0,1,0),x^2=(0,0,1)$. The notation might be confusing but it is not wrong.
– Shubham Johri
2 days ago




@Chessanator For $(a)$, the basis vectors are $1=(1,0,0),x=(0,1,0),x^2=(0,0,1)$. The notation might be confusing but it is not wrong.
– Shubham Johri
2 days ago


















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