Yet Another Question Regarding Jordan Form [duplicate]












1












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This question already has an answer here:




  • Possible Jordan Canonical Forms Given Minimal Polynomial

    1 answer




The Problem:



Let $A$ be a $5 times 5$ matrix with characteristic polynomial $(x-2)^3(x+1)^2$ and minimal polynomial $(x-2)^2(x+1)^2$. What are the possible Jordan forms for $A$.



My Approach:



There are many questions of this form here on StackExchange, but I seem to be encountering some contradictory interpretations when going through them all. So let me see if I understand what's going on...



Obviously (up to permuting the Jordan blocks), the Jordan form of $A$ is of the form
begin{pmatrix}
2 & a_1 & 0 & 0 & 0 \
0 & 2 & a_2 & 0 & 0 \
0 & 0 & 2 & a_3 & 0 \
0 & 0 & 0 & -1 & a_4 \
0 & 0 & 0 & 0 & -1
end{pmatrix}



where $a_i in {0,1}$, for $i = 1,2,3,4$. That is, it's simply a matter of determining precisely which $a_i$ are $0$ and which are $1$. I believe that, since the multiplicity of the root $x = 2$ in the minimal polynomial of $A$ is $2$, this means that the largest possible Jordan block associated with the eigenvalue 2 is $2 times 2$; and so at least one of $a_1, a_2$ must be $1$. But must there necessarily be such a Jordan block? (Note that I interpret a "Jordan Block" to necessarily be a matrix with $1$s along the superdiagonal--I've seen it defined differently elsewhere.)



Similarly, since the root $x = -1$ has multiplicity 2 in the minimal polynomial, I take this to mean that the largest Jordan block associated with the eigenvalue $1$ is $2 times 2$. (Again, must there necessarily be such a Jordan block?)



This means that a possible Jordan form of $A$ is
begin{pmatrix}
2 & 0 & 0 & 0 & 0 \
0 & 2 & 1 & 0 & 0 \
0 & 0 & 2 & 0 & 0 \
0 & 0 & 0 & -1 & 1 \
0 & 0 & 0 & 0 & -1
end{pmatrix}



Now, I know that the Jordan form cannot be a diagonal matrix (as this is only true when the minimal polynomial is a product of 5 distinct linear factors); so we can't have $a_i = 0$, for each $i = 1, 2, 3, 4$. Moreover, we can't have $a_1 = 1$, for each $i = 1,2,3,4$, since there can be no Jordan blocks larger than $2 times 2$. In fact, if we fix the diagonal entries as they appear above, it follows that $a_3 = 0$ and only one of $a_1, a_2$ can be 1.



Is there anything I can conclude?










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marked as duplicate by 6005, user416281, Alexander Gruber Jan 12 at 0:56


This question has been asked before and already has an answer. If those answers do not fully address your question, please ask a new question.














  • 1




    $begingroup$
    Ddi you see already this question here?
    $endgroup$
    – Dietrich Burde
    Jan 11 at 20:38










  • $begingroup$
    @DietrichBurde Somehow I missed that one. I believe that clears up my confusion. (I'm not sure if I should delete my post, mark it as duplicate, leave it up, or what...)
    $endgroup$
    – thisisourconcerndude
    Jan 11 at 20:44










  • $begingroup$
    @thisisourconcerndude The right thing to do is leave it up and mark as duplicate :)
    $endgroup$
    – 6005
    Jan 11 at 21:05
















1












$begingroup$



This question already has an answer here:




  • Possible Jordan Canonical Forms Given Minimal Polynomial

    1 answer




The Problem:



Let $A$ be a $5 times 5$ matrix with characteristic polynomial $(x-2)^3(x+1)^2$ and minimal polynomial $(x-2)^2(x+1)^2$. What are the possible Jordan forms for $A$.



My Approach:



There are many questions of this form here on StackExchange, but I seem to be encountering some contradictory interpretations when going through them all. So let me see if I understand what's going on...



Obviously (up to permuting the Jordan blocks), the Jordan form of $A$ is of the form
begin{pmatrix}
2 & a_1 & 0 & 0 & 0 \
0 & 2 & a_2 & 0 & 0 \
0 & 0 & 2 & a_3 & 0 \
0 & 0 & 0 & -1 & a_4 \
0 & 0 & 0 & 0 & -1
end{pmatrix}



where $a_i in {0,1}$, for $i = 1,2,3,4$. That is, it's simply a matter of determining precisely which $a_i$ are $0$ and which are $1$. I believe that, since the multiplicity of the root $x = 2$ in the minimal polynomial of $A$ is $2$, this means that the largest possible Jordan block associated with the eigenvalue 2 is $2 times 2$; and so at least one of $a_1, a_2$ must be $1$. But must there necessarily be such a Jordan block? (Note that I interpret a "Jordan Block" to necessarily be a matrix with $1$s along the superdiagonal--I've seen it defined differently elsewhere.)



Similarly, since the root $x = -1$ has multiplicity 2 in the minimal polynomial, I take this to mean that the largest Jordan block associated with the eigenvalue $1$ is $2 times 2$. (Again, must there necessarily be such a Jordan block?)



This means that a possible Jordan form of $A$ is
begin{pmatrix}
2 & 0 & 0 & 0 & 0 \
0 & 2 & 1 & 0 & 0 \
0 & 0 & 2 & 0 & 0 \
0 & 0 & 0 & -1 & 1 \
0 & 0 & 0 & 0 & -1
end{pmatrix}



Now, I know that the Jordan form cannot be a diagonal matrix (as this is only true when the minimal polynomial is a product of 5 distinct linear factors); so we can't have $a_i = 0$, for each $i = 1, 2, 3, 4$. Moreover, we can't have $a_1 = 1$, for each $i = 1,2,3,4$, since there can be no Jordan blocks larger than $2 times 2$. In fact, if we fix the diagonal entries as they appear above, it follows that $a_3 = 0$ and only one of $a_1, a_2$ can be 1.



Is there anything I can conclude?










share|cite|improve this question









$endgroup$



marked as duplicate by 6005, user416281, Alexander Gruber Jan 12 at 0:56


This question has been asked before and already has an answer. If those answers do not fully address your question, please ask a new question.














  • 1




    $begingroup$
    Ddi you see already this question here?
    $endgroup$
    – Dietrich Burde
    Jan 11 at 20:38










  • $begingroup$
    @DietrichBurde Somehow I missed that one. I believe that clears up my confusion. (I'm not sure if I should delete my post, mark it as duplicate, leave it up, or what...)
    $endgroup$
    – thisisourconcerndude
    Jan 11 at 20:44










  • $begingroup$
    @thisisourconcerndude The right thing to do is leave it up and mark as duplicate :)
    $endgroup$
    – 6005
    Jan 11 at 21:05














1












1








1





$begingroup$



This question already has an answer here:




  • Possible Jordan Canonical Forms Given Minimal Polynomial

    1 answer




The Problem:



Let $A$ be a $5 times 5$ matrix with characteristic polynomial $(x-2)^3(x+1)^2$ and minimal polynomial $(x-2)^2(x+1)^2$. What are the possible Jordan forms for $A$.



My Approach:



There are many questions of this form here on StackExchange, but I seem to be encountering some contradictory interpretations when going through them all. So let me see if I understand what's going on...



Obviously (up to permuting the Jordan blocks), the Jordan form of $A$ is of the form
begin{pmatrix}
2 & a_1 & 0 & 0 & 0 \
0 & 2 & a_2 & 0 & 0 \
0 & 0 & 2 & a_3 & 0 \
0 & 0 & 0 & -1 & a_4 \
0 & 0 & 0 & 0 & -1
end{pmatrix}



where $a_i in {0,1}$, for $i = 1,2,3,4$. That is, it's simply a matter of determining precisely which $a_i$ are $0$ and which are $1$. I believe that, since the multiplicity of the root $x = 2$ in the minimal polynomial of $A$ is $2$, this means that the largest possible Jordan block associated with the eigenvalue 2 is $2 times 2$; and so at least one of $a_1, a_2$ must be $1$. But must there necessarily be such a Jordan block? (Note that I interpret a "Jordan Block" to necessarily be a matrix with $1$s along the superdiagonal--I've seen it defined differently elsewhere.)



Similarly, since the root $x = -1$ has multiplicity 2 in the minimal polynomial, I take this to mean that the largest Jordan block associated with the eigenvalue $1$ is $2 times 2$. (Again, must there necessarily be such a Jordan block?)



This means that a possible Jordan form of $A$ is
begin{pmatrix}
2 & 0 & 0 & 0 & 0 \
0 & 2 & 1 & 0 & 0 \
0 & 0 & 2 & 0 & 0 \
0 & 0 & 0 & -1 & 1 \
0 & 0 & 0 & 0 & -1
end{pmatrix}



Now, I know that the Jordan form cannot be a diagonal matrix (as this is only true when the minimal polynomial is a product of 5 distinct linear factors); so we can't have $a_i = 0$, for each $i = 1, 2, 3, 4$. Moreover, we can't have $a_1 = 1$, for each $i = 1,2,3,4$, since there can be no Jordan blocks larger than $2 times 2$. In fact, if we fix the diagonal entries as they appear above, it follows that $a_3 = 0$ and only one of $a_1, a_2$ can be 1.



Is there anything I can conclude?










share|cite|improve this question









$endgroup$





This question already has an answer here:




  • Possible Jordan Canonical Forms Given Minimal Polynomial

    1 answer




The Problem:



Let $A$ be a $5 times 5$ matrix with characteristic polynomial $(x-2)^3(x+1)^2$ and minimal polynomial $(x-2)^2(x+1)^2$. What are the possible Jordan forms for $A$.



My Approach:



There are many questions of this form here on StackExchange, but I seem to be encountering some contradictory interpretations when going through them all. So let me see if I understand what's going on...



Obviously (up to permuting the Jordan blocks), the Jordan form of $A$ is of the form
begin{pmatrix}
2 & a_1 & 0 & 0 & 0 \
0 & 2 & a_2 & 0 & 0 \
0 & 0 & 2 & a_3 & 0 \
0 & 0 & 0 & -1 & a_4 \
0 & 0 & 0 & 0 & -1
end{pmatrix}



where $a_i in {0,1}$, for $i = 1,2,3,4$. That is, it's simply a matter of determining precisely which $a_i$ are $0$ and which are $1$. I believe that, since the multiplicity of the root $x = 2$ in the minimal polynomial of $A$ is $2$, this means that the largest possible Jordan block associated with the eigenvalue 2 is $2 times 2$; and so at least one of $a_1, a_2$ must be $1$. But must there necessarily be such a Jordan block? (Note that I interpret a "Jordan Block" to necessarily be a matrix with $1$s along the superdiagonal--I've seen it defined differently elsewhere.)



Similarly, since the root $x = -1$ has multiplicity 2 in the minimal polynomial, I take this to mean that the largest Jordan block associated with the eigenvalue $1$ is $2 times 2$. (Again, must there necessarily be such a Jordan block?)



This means that a possible Jordan form of $A$ is
begin{pmatrix}
2 & 0 & 0 & 0 & 0 \
0 & 2 & 1 & 0 & 0 \
0 & 0 & 2 & 0 & 0 \
0 & 0 & 0 & -1 & 1 \
0 & 0 & 0 & 0 & -1
end{pmatrix}



Now, I know that the Jordan form cannot be a diagonal matrix (as this is only true when the minimal polynomial is a product of 5 distinct linear factors); so we can't have $a_i = 0$, for each $i = 1, 2, 3, 4$. Moreover, we can't have $a_1 = 1$, for each $i = 1,2,3,4$, since there can be no Jordan blocks larger than $2 times 2$. In fact, if we fix the diagonal entries as they appear above, it follows that $a_3 = 0$ and only one of $a_1, a_2$ can be 1.



Is there anything I can conclude?





This question already has an answer here:




  • Possible Jordan Canonical Forms Given Minimal Polynomial

    1 answer








linear-algebra jordan-normal-form






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asked Jan 11 at 20:35









thisisourconcerndudethisisourconcerndude

1,1271022




1,1271022




marked as duplicate by 6005, user416281, Alexander Gruber Jan 12 at 0:56


This question has been asked before and already has an answer. If those answers do not fully address your question, please ask a new question.









marked as duplicate by 6005, user416281, Alexander Gruber Jan 12 at 0:56


This question has been asked before and already has an answer. If those answers do not fully address your question, please ask a new question.










  • 1




    $begingroup$
    Ddi you see already this question here?
    $endgroup$
    – Dietrich Burde
    Jan 11 at 20:38










  • $begingroup$
    @DietrichBurde Somehow I missed that one. I believe that clears up my confusion. (I'm not sure if I should delete my post, mark it as duplicate, leave it up, or what...)
    $endgroup$
    – thisisourconcerndude
    Jan 11 at 20:44










  • $begingroup$
    @thisisourconcerndude The right thing to do is leave it up and mark as duplicate :)
    $endgroup$
    – 6005
    Jan 11 at 21:05














  • 1




    $begingroup$
    Ddi you see already this question here?
    $endgroup$
    – Dietrich Burde
    Jan 11 at 20:38










  • $begingroup$
    @DietrichBurde Somehow I missed that one. I believe that clears up my confusion. (I'm not sure if I should delete my post, mark it as duplicate, leave it up, or what...)
    $endgroup$
    – thisisourconcerndude
    Jan 11 at 20:44










  • $begingroup$
    @thisisourconcerndude The right thing to do is leave it up and mark as duplicate :)
    $endgroup$
    – 6005
    Jan 11 at 21:05








1




1




$begingroup$
Ddi you see already this question here?
$endgroup$
– Dietrich Burde
Jan 11 at 20:38




$begingroup$
Ddi you see already this question here?
$endgroup$
– Dietrich Burde
Jan 11 at 20:38












$begingroup$
@DietrichBurde Somehow I missed that one. I believe that clears up my confusion. (I'm not sure if I should delete my post, mark it as duplicate, leave it up, or what...)
$endgroup$
– thisisourconcerndude
Jan 11 at 20:44




$begingroup$
@DietrichBurde Somehow I missed that one. I believe that clears up my confusion. (I'm not sure if I should delete my post, mark it as duplicate, leave it up, or what...)
$endgroup$
– thisisourconcerndude
Jan 11 at 20:44












$begingroup$
@thisisourconcerndude The right thing to do is leave it up and mark as duplicate :)
$endgroup$
– 6005
Jan 11 at 21:05




$begingroup$
@thisisourconcerndude The right thing to do is leave it up and mark as duplicate :)
$endgroup$
– 6005
Jan 11 at 21:05










1 Answer
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The knowledge of the characteristic and minimal polynomials completely determines the Jordan Form only for matrices of dimension $3times 3$ ( or $2 times 2$). In your case we can have, in principle, different Jordan forms for the given polynomials.



From the characteristic polynomial we know that the diagonal elements are three values $lambda= 2$ and two values $lambda=-1$ (this numbers are the algebraic multiplicities of the eigenvalues).



The minimal polynomial say us that for the eigenvalue $lambda=2$, and also for the eigenvalue $lambda=-1$, we have a Jordan bloc of dimension $2$. This means that we can have a jordan bloc with two eigenvalues $2$ on the diagonal and a value$1$ over these, and the same for the eigenvalue $-1$.



So, apart the position of the blocs, in this case we have one Jordan form, with yours $a_1=1$ (or $a_2=1$) and $a_4=1$. Note that $a_3$ is not an element of a Jordan bloch and must be $0$.






share|cite|improve this answer











$endgroup$




















    1 Answer
    1






    active

    oldest

    votes








    1 Answer
    1






    active

    oldest

    votes









    active

    oldest

    votes






    active

    oldest

    votes









    1












    $begingroup$

    The knowledge of the characteristic and minimal polynomials completely determines the Jordan Form only for matrices of dimension $3times 3$ ( or $2 times 2$). In your case we can have, in principle, different Jordan forms for the given polynomials.



    From the characteristic polynomial we know that the diagonal elements are three values $lambda= 2$ and two values $lambda=-1$ (this numbers are the algebraic multiplicities of the eigenvalues).



    The minimal polynomial say us that for the eigenvalue $lambda=2$, and also for the eigenvalue $lambda=-1$, we have a Jordan bloc of dimension $2$. This means that we can have a jordan bloc with two eigenvalues $2$ on the diagonal and a value$1$ over these, and the same for the eigenvalue $-1$.



    So, apart the position of the blocs, in this case we have one Jordan form, with yours $a_1=1$ (or $a_2=1$) and $a_4=1$. Note that $a_3$ is not an element of a Jordan bloch and must be $0$.






    share|cite|improve this answer











    $endgroup$


















      1












      $begingroup$

      The knowledge of the characteristic and minimal polynomials completely determines the Jordan Form only for matrices of dimension $3times 3$ ( or $2 times 2$). In your case we can have, in principle, different Jordan forms for the given polynomials.



      From the characteristic polynomial we know that the diagonal elements are three values $lambda= 2$ and two values $lambda=-1$ (this numbers are the algebraic multiplicities of the eigenvalues).



      The minimal polynomial say us that for the eigenvalue $lambda=2$, and also for the eigenvalue $lambda=-1$, we have a Jordan bloc of dimension $2$. This means that we can have a jordan bloc with two eigenvalues $2$ on the diagonal and a value$1$ over these, and the same for the eigenvalue $-1$.



      So, apart the position of the blocs, in this case we have one Jordan form, with yours $a_1=1$ (or $a_2=1$) and $a_4=1$. Note that $a_3$ is not an element of a Jordan bloch and must be $0$.






      share|cite|improve this answer











      $endgroup$
















        1












        1








        1





        $begingroup$

        The knowledge of the characteristic and minimal polynomials completely determines the Jordan Form only for matrices of dimension $3times 3$ ( or $2 times 2$). In your case we can have, in principle, different Jordan forms for the given polynomials.



        From the characteristic polynomial we know that the diagonal elements are three values $lambda= 2$ and two values $lambda=-1$ (this numbers are the algebraic multiplicities of the eigenvalues).



        The minimal polynomial say us that for the eigenvalue $lambda=2$, and also for the eigenvalue $lambda=-1$, we have a Jordan bloc of dimension $2$. This means that we can have a jordan bloc with two eigenvalues $2$ on the diagonal and a value$1$ over these, and the same for the eigenvalue $-1$.



        So, apart the position of the blocs, in this case we have one Jordan form, with yours $a_1=1$ (or $a_2=1$) and $a_4=1$. Note that $a_3$ is not an element of a Jordan bloch and must be $0$.






        share|cite|improve this answer











        $endgroup$



        The knowledge of the characteristic and minimal polynomials completely determines the Jordan Form only for matrices of dimension $3times 3$ ( or $2 times 2$). In your case we can have, in principle, different Jordan forms for the given polynomials.



        From the characteristic polynomial we know that the diagonal elements are three values $lambda= 2$ and two values $lambda=-1$ (this numbers are the algebraic multiplicities of the eigenvalues).



        The minimal polynomial say us that for the eigenvalue $lambda=2$, and also for the eigenvalue $lambda=-1$, we have a Jordan bloc of dimension $2$. This means that we can have a jordan bloc with two eigenvalues $2$ on the diagonal and a value$1$ over these, and the same for the eigenvalue $-1$.



        So, apart the position of the blocs, in this case we have one Jordan form, with yours $a_1=1$ (or $a_2=1$) and $a_4=1$. Note that $a_3$ is not an element of a Jordan bloch and must be $0$.







        share|cite|improve this answer














        share|cite|improve this answer



        share|cite|improve this answer








        edited Jan 11 at 21:52

























        answered Jan 11 at 21:36









        Emilio NovatiEmilio Novati

        51.9k43474




        51.9k43474















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