Values that make a piecewise function differentiable












1












$begingroup$


This is a common type of question in calculus courses, but I have found the reasoning in the answer given lacking. What values of $b$ make $f(x)$ differentiable for all x.



$$
f(x) = left{
begin{array}{ll}
bx^2-3 & quad x leq -1 \
3x+b & quad x > -1
end{array}
right.
$$



The standard way given in the answer was to first calculate $f'(x)$ by differentiating both pieces. (We only need to check the meeting point of since both pieces are clearly differentiable)
$$f'(x) = left{
begin{array}{ll}
2bx & quad x < -1 \
3 & quad x > -1
end{array}
right.
$$



1) Then, finding the values that make the left and right limits of the derivative equal $lim_{xto-1^+}f'(x)=lim_{xto-1^-}f'(x)$ when $ b=-frac{3}{2}$.



2) If you cannot make them equal, then you say that the function is not differentiable at $x=-1$



The problem I see with 1) and 2) is that



1) $lim_{xto c^+}f'(x)=lim_{xto c^-}f'(x)$ does not imply that $f'(c)$ exists.For example $$f(x) = left{
begin{array}{ll}
x^2 & quad x < -1 \
x^2+1 & quad x > -1
end{array}
right.
$$



2) $lim_{xto c^+}f'(x)$ or $lim_{xto c^-}f'(x)$ not existing, therefore not equal, does not imply that $f'(c)$ does not exist. For example, $$f(x) = left{
begin{array}{ll}
x^2cos(frac{1}{x}) & quad x ne0 \
0 & quad x =0
end{array}
right.
$$


It seems to me that the approach given by the answer is not correct and we have to always check for the definition at the point.










share|cite|improve this question









$endgroup$

















    1












    $begingroup$


    This is a common type of question in calculus courses, but I have found the reasoning in the answer given lacking. What values of $b$ make $f(x)$ differentiable for all x.



    $$
    f(x) = left{
    begin{array}{ll}
    bx^2-3 & quad x leq -1 \
    3x+b & quad x > -1
    end{array}
    right.
    $$



    The standard way given in the answer was to first calculate $f'(x)$ by differentiating both pieces. (We only need to check the meeting point of since both pieces are clearly differentiable)
    $$f'(x) = left{
    begin{array}{ll}
    2bx & quad x < -1 \
    3 & quad x > -1
    end{array}
    right.
    $$



    1) Then, finding the values that make the left and right limits of the derivative equal $lim_{xto-1^+}f'(x)=lim_{xto-1^-}f'(x)$ when $ b=-frac{3}{2}$.



    2) If you cannot make them equal, then you say that the function is not differentiable at $x=-1$



    The problem I see with 1) and 2) is that



    1) $lim_{xto c^+}f'(x)=lim_{xto c^-}f'(x)$ does not imply that $f'(c)$ exists.For example $$f(x) = left{
    begin{array}{ll}
    x^2 & quad x < -1 \
    x^2+1 & quad x > -1
    end{array}
    right.
    $$



    2) $lim_{xto c^+}f'(x)$ or $lim_{xto c^-}f'(x)$ not existing, therefore not equal, does not imply that $f'(c)$ does not exist. For example, $$f(x) = left{
    begin{array}{ll}
    x^2cos(frac{1}{x}) & quad x ne0 \
    0 & quad x =0
    end{array}
    right.
    $$


    It seems to me that the approach given by the answer is not correct and we have to always check for the definition at the point.










    share|cite|improve this question









    $endgroup$















      1












      1








      1





      $begingroup$


      This is a common type of question in calculus courses, but I have found the reasoning in the answer given lacking. What values of $b$ make $f(x)$ differentiable for all x.



      $$
      f(x) = left{
      begin{array}{ll}
      bx^2-3 & quad x leq -1 \
      3x+b & quad x > -1
      end{array}
      right.
      $$



      The standard way given in the answer was to first calculate $f'(x)$ by differentiating both pieces. (We only need to check the meeting point of since both pieces are clearly differentiable)
      $$f'(x) = left{
      begin{array}{ll}
      2bx & quad x < -1 \
      3 & quad x > -1
      end{array}
      right.
      $$



      1) Then, finding the values that make the left and right limits of the derivative equal $lim_{xto-1^+}f'(x)=lim_{xto-1^-}f'(x)$ when $ b=-frac{3}{2}$.



      2) If you cannot make them equal, then you say that the function is not differentiable at $x=-1$



      The problem I see with 1) and 2) is that



      1) $lim_{xto c^+}f'(x)=lim_{xto c^-}f'(x)$ does not imply that $f'(c)$ exists.For example $$f(x) = left{
      begin{array}{ll}
      x^2 & quad x < -1 \
      x^2+1 & quad x > -1
      end{array}
      right.
      $$



      2) $lim_{xto c^+}f'(x)$ or $lim_{xto c^-}f'(x)$ not existing, therefore not equal, does not imply that $f'(c)$ does not exist. For example, $$f(x) = left{
      begin{array}{ll}
      x^2cos(frac{1}{x}) & quad x ne0 \
      0 & quad x =0
      end{array}
      right.
      $$


      It seems to me that the approach given by the answer is not correct and we have to always check for the definition at the point.










      share|cite|improve this question









      $endgroup$




      This is a common type of question in calculus courses, but I have found the reasoning in the answer given lacking. What values of $b$ make $f(x)$ differentiable for all x.



      $$
      f(x) = left{
      begin{array}{ll}
      bx^2-3 & quad x leq -1 \
      3x+b & quad x > -1
      end{array}
      right.
      $$



      The standard way given in the answer was to first calculate $f'(x)$ by differentiating both pieces. (We only need to check the meeting point of since both pieces are clearly differentiable)
      $$f'(x) = left{
      begin{array}{ll}
      2bx & quad x < -1 \
      3 & quad x > -1
      end{array}
      right.
      $$



      1) Then, finding the values that make the left and right limits of the derivative equal $lim_{xto-1^+}f'(x)=lim_{xto-1^-}f'(x)$ when $ b=-frac{3}{2}$.



      2) If you cannot make them equal, then you say that the function is not differentiable at $x=-1$



      The problem I see with 1) and 2) is that



      1) $lim_{xto c^+}f'(x)=lim_{xto c^-}f'(x)$ does not imply that $f'(c)$ exists.For example $$f(x) = left{
      begin{array}{ll}
      x^2 & quad x < -1 \
      x^2+1 & quad x > -1
      end{array}
      right.
      $$



      2) $lim_{xto c^+}f'(x)$ or $lim_{xto c^-}f'(x)$ not existing, therefore not equal, does not imply that $f'(c)$ does not exist. For example, $$f(x) = left{
      begin{array}{ll}
      x^2cos(frac{1}{x}) & quad x ne0 \
      0 & quad x =0
      end{array}
      right.
      $$


      It seems to me that the approach given by the answer is not correct and we have to always check for the definition at the point.







      derivatives






      share|cite|improve this question













      share|cite|improve this question











      share|cite|improve this question




      share|cite|improve this question










      asked Jan 8 at 5:02









      mattmatt

      387213




      387213






















          2 Answers
          2






          active

          oldest

          votes


















          1












          $begingroup$

          In problems like these in a calculus course you typically have
          $$
          f(x) = begin{cases}
          g(x), & x le a, \
          h(x), & x > a,
          end{cases}
          $$

          where $g(x)$ and $h(x)$ are very nice functions (differentiable on the whole real line, for example). Let's say that they are differentiable at $a$, at least.



          Then, what you can say right away (just from the definitions) is that the derivative from the left is
          $$
          f'_{-}(a) = g'(a)
          $$

          and that IF $g(a)=h(a)$ so that $f$ is continuous at $a$, then also the derivative from the right is
          $$
          f'_{+}(a) = h'(a)
          .
          $$

          This does not involve taking limits of $g'(x)$ or $h'(x)$, it's just their derivatives at the point $a$ that's involved. And those derivatives should be computed in the proper way; just use differentiation rules in simple cases like if $g$ and $h$ are polynomials or such, but use the definition in more complicated cases like the $x^2 cos(1/x)$ example.



          However, if $g(a) neq h(a)$, then the right-hand derivative $f'_{+}(a)$ does not exist!
          So you really need to check the continuity as well. In your example, the value of $b$ that you found just happens to make the function continuous too, but that was a fluke. What you should have done first is to find $b$ to make the function continuous, and then check if the right and left derivatives agree for that value of $b$. (Not the limits of $f'(x)$ from the right/left, but the actual right/left derivatives. That happens to be the same in this case, but in principle it need not be, as you yourself pointed out.)






          share|cite|improve this answer









          $endgroup$













          • $begingroup$
            Thanks for your answer, would this mean that the whole process of taking $lim_{x to a+} f'(x)$ and $lim_{x to a-} f'(x)$, and saying that they must be equal is a fluke as well? It tell us a possible value of b, but we still have to check that this b works.
            $endgroup$
            – matt
            Jan 8 at 7:44






          • 1




            $begingroup$
            @matt: Yes, that's right.
            $endgroup$
            – Hans Lundmark
            Jan 8 at 8:26



















          0












          $begingroup$

          If $lim_{xto c+} f'(x)=lim_{xto c-} f'(x)$ we cannot say that $f'(c)$ exists. [This condition does not involve the value of $f$ at $c$ so it cannot guarantee existence of the derivative]. What is true is $f'(c)$ exists iff $lim_{xto c+} frac {f(x)-f(c)} {x-c}=lim_{xto c-} frac{f(x)-f(c)} {x-c}$.






          share|cite|improve this answer









          $endgroup$













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            2 Answers
            2






            active

            oldest

            votes








            2 Answers
            2






            active

            oldest

            votes









            active

            oldest

            votes






            active

            oldest

            votes









            1












            $begingroup$

            In problems like these in a calculus course you typically have
            $$
            f(x) = begin{cases}
            g(x), & x le a, \
            h(x), & x > a,
            end{cases}
            $$

            where $g(x)$ and $h(x)$ are very nice functions (differentiable on the whole real line, for example). Let's say that they are differentiable at $a$, at least.



            Then, what you can say right away (just from the definitions) is that the derivative from the left is
            $$
            f'_{-}(a) = g'(a)
            $$

            and that IF $g(a)=h(a)$ so that $f$ is continuous at $a$, then also the derivative from the right is
            $$
            f'_{+}(a) = h'(a)
            .
            $$

            This does not involve taking limits of $g'(x)$ or $h'(x)$, it's just their derivatives at the point $a$ that's involved. And those derivatives should be computed in the proper way; just use differentiation rules in simple cases like if $g$ and $h$ are polynomials or such, but use the definition in more complicated cases like the $x^2 cos(1/x)$ example.



            However, if $g(a) neq h(a)$, then the right-hand derivative $f'_{+}(a)$ does not exist!
            So you really need to check the continuity as well. In your example, the value of $b$ that you found just happens to make the function continuous too, but that was a fluke. What you should have done first is to find $b$ to make the function continuous, and then check if the right and left derivatives agree for that value of $b$. (Not the limits of $f'(x)$ from the right/left, but the actual right/left derivatives. That happens to be the same in this case, but in principle it need not be, as you yourself pointed out.)






            share|cite|improve this answer









            $endgroup$













            • $begingroup$
              Thanks for your answer, would this mean that the whole process of taking $lim_{x to a+} f'(x)$ and $lim_{x to a-} f'(x)$, and saying that they must be equal is a fluke as well? It tell us a possible value of b, but we still have to check that this b works.
              $endgroup$
              – matt
              Jan 8 at 7:44






            • 1




              $begingroup$
              @matt: Yes, that's right.
              $endgroup$
              – Hans Lundmark
              Jan 8 at 8:26
















            1












            $begingroup$

            In problems like these in a calculus course you typically have
            $$
            f(x) = begin{cases}
            g(x), & x le a, \
            h(x), & x > a,
            end{cases}
            $$

            where $g(x)$ and $h(x)$ are very nice functions (differentiable on the whole real line, for example). Let's say that they are differentiable at $a$, at least.



            Then, what you can say right away (just from the definitions) is that the derivative from the left is
            $$
            f'_{-}(a) = g'(a)
            $$

            and that IF $g(a)=h(a)$ so that $f$ is continuous at $a$, then also the derivative from the right is
            $$
            f'_{+}(a) = h'(a)
            .
            $$

            This does not involve taking limits of $g'(x)$ or $h'(x)$, it's just their derivatives at the point $a$ that's involved. And those derivatives should be computed in the proper way; just use differentiation rules in simple cases like if $g$ and $h$ are polynomials or such, but use the definition in more complicated cases like the $x^2 cos(1/x)$ example.



            However, if $g(a) neq h(a)$, then the right-hand derivative $f'_{+}(a)$ does not exist!
            So you really need to check the continuity as well. In your example, the value of $b$ that you found just happens to make the function continuous too, but that was a fluke. What you should have done first is to find $b$ to make the function continuous, and then check if the right and left derivatives agree for that value of $b$. (Not the limits of $f'(x)$ from the right/left, but the actual right/left derivatives. That happens to be the same in this case, but in principle it need not be, as you yourself pointed out.)






            share|cite|improve this answer









            $endgroup$













            • $begingroup$
              Thanks for your answer, would this mean that the whole process of taking $lim_{x to a+} f'(x)$ and $lim_{x to a-} f'(x)$, and saying that they must be equal is a fluke as well? It tell us a possible value of b, but we still have to check that this b works.
              $endgroup$
              – matt
              Jan 8 at 7:44






            • 1




              $begingroup$
              @matt: Yes, that's right.
              $endgroup$
              – Hans Lundmark
              Jan 8 at 8:26














            1












            1








            1





            $begingroup$

            In problems like these in a calculus course you typically have
            $$
            f(x) = begin{cases}
            g(x), & x le a, \
            h(x), & x > a,
            end{cases}
            $$

            where $g(x)$ and $h(x)$ are very nice functions (differentiable on the whole real line, for example). Let's say that they are differentiable at $a$, at least.



            Then, what you can say right away (just from the definitions) is that the derivative from the left is
            $$
            f'_{-}(a) = g'(a)
            $$

            and that IF $g(a)=h(a)$ so that $f$ is continuous at $a$, then also the derivative from the right is
            $$
            f'_{+}(a) = h'(a)
            .
            $$

            This does not involve taking limits of $g'(x)$ or $h'(x)$, it's just their derivatives at the point $a$ that's involved. And those derivatives should be computed in the proper way; just use differentiation rules in simple cases like if $g$ and $h$ are polynomials or such, but use the definition in more complicated cases like the $x^2 cos(1/x)$ example.



            However, if $g(a) neq h(a)$, then the right-hand derivative $f'_{+}(a)$ does not exist!
            So you really need to check the continuity as well. In your example, the value of $b$ that you found just happens to make the function continuous too, but that was a fluke. What you should have done first is to find $b$ to make the function continuous, and then check if the right and left derivatives agree for that value of $b$. (Not the limits of $f'(x)$ from the right/left, but the actual right/left derivatives. That happens to be the same in this case, but in principle it need not be, as you yourself pointed out.)






            share|cite|improve this answer









            $endgroup$



            In problems like these in a calculus course you typically have
            $$
            f(x) = begin{cases}
            g(x), & x le a, \
            h(x), & x > a,
            end{cases}
            $$

            where $g(x)$ and $h(x)$ are very nice functions (differentiable on the whole real line, for example). Let's say that they are differentiable at $a$, at least.



            Then, what you can say right away (just from the definitions) is that the derivative from the left is
            $$
            f'_{-}(a) = g'(a)
            $$

            and that IF $g(a)=h(a)$ so that $f$ is continuous at $a$, then also the derivative from the right is
            $$
            f'_{+}(a) = h'(a)
            .
            $$

            This does not involve taking limits of $g'(x)$ or $h'(x)$, it's just their derivatives at the point $a$ that's involved. And those derivatives should be computed in the proper way; just use differentiation rules in simple cases like if $g$ and $h$ are polynomials or such, but use the definition in more complicated cases like the $x^2 cos(1/x)$ example.



            However, if $g(a) neq h(a)$, then the right-hand derivative $f'_{+}(a)$ does not exist!
            So you really need to check the continuity as well. In your example, the value of $b$ that you found just happens to make the function continuous too, but that was a fluke. What you should have done first is to find $b$ to make the function continuous, and then check if the right and left derivatives agree for that value of $b$. (Not the limits of $f'(x)$ from the right/left, but the actual right/left derivatives. That happens to be the same in this case, but in principle it need not be, as you yourself pointed out.)







            share|cite|improve this answer












            share|cite|improve this answer



            share|cite|improve this answer










            answered Jan 8 at 6:43









            Hans LundmarkHans Lundmark

            35.3k564114




            35.3k564114












            • $begingroup$
              Thanks for your answer, would this mean that the whole process of taking $lim_{x to a+} f'(x)$ and $lim_{x to a-} f'(x)$, and saying that they must be equal is a fluke as well? It tell us a possible value of b, but we still have to check that this b works.
              $endgroup$
              – matt
              Jan 8 at 7:44






            • 1




              $begingroup$
              @matt: Yes, that's right.
              $endgroup$
              – Hans Lundmark
              Jan 8 at 8:26


















            • $begingroup$
              Thanks for your answer, would this mean that the whole process of taking $lim_{x to a+} f'(x)$ and $lim_{x to a-} f'(x)$, and saying that they must be equal is a fluke as well? It tell us a possible value of b, but we still have to check that this b works.
              $endgroup$
              – matt
              Jan 8 at 7:44






            • 1




              $begingroup$
              @matt: Yes, that's right.
              $endgroup$
              – Hans Lundmark
              Jan 8 at 8:26
















            $begingroup$
            Thanks for your answer, would this mean that the whole process of taking $lim_{x to a+} f'(x)$ and $lim_{x to a-} f'(x)$, and saying that they must be equal is a fluke as well? It tell us a possible value of b, but we still have to check that this b works.
            $endgroup$
            – matt
            Jan 8 at 7:44




            $begingroup$
            Thanks for your answer, would this mean that the whole process of taking $lim_{x to a+} f'(x)$ and $lim_{x to a-} f'(x)$, and saying that they must be equal is a fluke as well? It tell us a possible value of b, but we still have to check that this b works.
            $endgroup$
            – matt
            Jan 8 at 7:44




            1




            1




            $begingroup$
            @matt: Yes, that's right.
            $endgroup$
            – Hans Lundmark
            Jan 8 at 8:26




            $begingroup$
            @matt: Yes, that's right.
            $endgroup$
            – Hans Lundmark
            Jan 8 at 8:26











            0












            $begingroup$

            If $lim_{xto c+} f'(x)=lim_{xto c-} f'(x)$ we cannot say that $f'(c)$ exists. [This condition does not involve the value of $f$ at $c$ so it cannot guarantee existence of the derivative]. What is true is $f'(c)$ exists iff $lim_{xto c+} frac {f(x)-f(c)} {x-c}=lim_{xto c-} frac{f(x)-f(c)} {x-c}$.






            share|cite|improve this answer









            $endgroup$


















              0












              $begingroup$

              If $lim_{xto c+} f'(x)=lim_{xto c-} f'(x)$ we cannot say that $f'(c)$ exists. [This condition does not involve the value of $f$ at $c$ so it cannot guarantee existence of the derivative]. What is true is $f'(c)$ exists iff $lim_{xto c+} frac {f(x)-f(c)} {x-c}=lim_{xto c-} frac{f(x)-f(c)} {x-c}$.






              share|cite|improve this answer









              $endgroup$
















                0












                0








                0





                $begingroup$

                If $lim_{xto c+} f'(x)=lim_{xto c-} f'(x)$ we cannot say that $f'(c)$ exists. [This condition does not involve the value of $f$ at $c$ so it cannot guarantee existence of the derivative]. What is true is $f'(c)$ exists iff $lim_{xto c+} frac {f(x)-f(c)} {x-c}=lim_{xto c-} frac{f(x)-f(c)} {x-c}$.






                share|cite|improve this answer









                $endgroup$



                If $lim_{xto c+} f'(x)=lim_{xto c-} f'(x)$ we cannot say that $f'(c)$ exists. [This condition does not involve the value of $f$ at $c$ so it cannot guarantee existence of the derivative]. What is true is $f'(c)$ exists iff $lim_{xto c+} frac {f(x)-f(c)} {x-c}=lim_{xto c-} frac{f(x)-f(c)} {x-c}$.







                share|cite|improve this answer












                share|cite|improve this answer



                share|cite|improve this answer










                answered Jan 8 at 5:25









                Kavi Rama MurthyKavi Rama Murthy

                53.2k32055




                53.2k32055






























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