Daily standup vs. Micro-management












21














Why isn't the daily scrum considered to be micromanagement?



Under any other circumstances expecting to get a daily update from developers would be considered micromanagement. Maybe even pico-management. (did I just invent a term?)



Even a weekly update was considered borderline micromanagement by many.



What changed that the daily scrum is acceptable, both to the engineers and the Project Managers?



(Future question: can this change (if it exists) be used for more frequent updates in a non-scrum setup?)










share|improve this question




















  • 11




    The daily standup is a intra-team coordination meeting, not a status pull. pm.stackexchange.com/a/6657/4271
    – Todd A. Jacobs
    yesterday
















21














Why isn't the daily scrum considered to be micromanagement?



Under any other circumstances expecting to get a daily update from developers would be considered micromanagement. Maybe even pico-management. (did I just invent a term?)



Even a weekly update was considered borderline micromanagement by many.



What changed that the daily scrum is acceptable, both to the engineers and the Project Managers?



(Future question: can this change (if it exists) be used for more frequent updates in a non-scrum setup?)










share|improve this question




















  • 11




    The daily standup is a intra-team coordination meeting, not a status pull. pm.stackexchange.com/a/6657/4271
    – Todd A. Jacobs
    yesterday














21












21








21


5





Why isn't the daily scrum considered to be micromanagement?



Under any other circumstances expecting to get a daily update from developers would be considered micromanagement. Maybe even pico-management. (did I just invent a term?)



Even a weekly update was considered borderline micromanagement by many.



What changed that the daily scrum is acceptable, both to the engineers and the Project Managers?



(Future question: can this change (if it exists) be used for more frequent updates in a non-scrum setup?)










share|improve this question















Why isn't the daily scrum considered to be micromanagement?



Under any other circumstances expecting to get a daily update from developers would be considered micromanagement. Maybe even pico-management. (did I just invent a term?)



Even a weekly update was considered borderline micromanagement by many.



What changed that the daily scrum is acceptable, both to the engineers and the Project Managers?



(Future question: can this change (if it exists) be used for more frequent updates in a non-scrum setup?)







scrum daily-scrum micro-management






share|improve this question















share|improve this question













share|improve this question




share|improve this question








edited yesterday









tiagoperes

37719




37719










asked yesterday









Danny Schoemann

1,41911431




1,41911431








  • 11




    The daily standup is a intra-team coordination meeting, not a status pull. pm.stackexchange.com/a/6657/4271
    – Todd A. Jacobs
    yesterday














  • 11




    The daily standup is a intra-team coordination meeting, not a status pull. pm.stackexchange.com/a/6657/4271
    – Todd A. Jacobs
    yesterday








11




11




The daily standup is a intra-team coordination meeting, not a status pull. pm.stackexchange.com/a/6657/4271
– Todd A. Jacobs
yesterday




The daily standup is a intra-team coordination meeting, not a status pull. pm.stackexchange.com/a/6657/4271
– Todd A. Jacobs
yesterday










6 Answers
6






active

oldest

votes


















32














The Daily Scrum is not an update-to-management meeting!



From the Scrum Guide (emphasis mine):




The Daily Scrum is a 15-minute time-boxed event for the Development Team [...] This optimizes team collaboration and performance [...] The Scrum Master ensures that the Development Team has the meeting, but the Development Team is responsible for conducting the Daily Scrum. [...] The Daily Scrum is an internal meeting for the Development Team. If others are present, the Scrum Master ensures that they do not disrupt the meeting.




If someone outside the Team is asking for progress reports or otherwise attempting to micromanage during the Daily Scrum, the Scrum Master should request for him/her to stop.



If the developers are automatically reporting to someone outside the Team during the meeting (you can tell this if they always face someone during the meeting) even without being asked, then that someone should be removed from the meeting to remove this temptation.



If the developers are automatically reporting to someone inside the Team during the meeting (such as the Scrum Master), then steps should be taken by the Scrum Master to discourage this. For example, the Scrum Master could make certain to move about the room during the meeting, to prevent the person speaking from being able to see him/her (and, thus, force the person speaking to shift his/her attention to the group at large).






share|improve this answer



















  • 5




    Sadly, in my experience this is very unusual. The Project Manager or their manager is almost always serving as Scrum Master on projects I've been involved with.
    – catfood
    yesterday






  • 3




    Or sometimes the Scrum Master is in practice "standing in" for the management.
    – davidbak
    yesterday










  • @davidbak A fair point. I added a paragraph.
    – Sarov
    yesterday






  • 1




    I’m now imagining a scrum master playing hide-and-seek during stand-ups. Thanks for that! :)
    – Ian MacDonald
    14 hours ago



















8














In addition to Sarov's excellent answer, there is also the purpose of the meeting.



The daily standup is not a management engagement. Neither the Scrum Master nor any other project or senior manager is doing any managing during the daily standup. I see this even stronger than Sarov does - not only is management not being reported to, there is also no flow from management towards the team. Nobody tells the team what to do or how to do it during the daily standup. There is no management activity going on during the daily standup and that is why it isn't micro-management - because it isn't management at all.



That doesn't mean this culture as-written is strictly put into practice in your environment, so your confusion might very well result from the practice being different from the book. If management has taken over the daily standup and is using it to micro-manage the team, then indeed the daily standup has become micro-management. If you continue to run it in that way, then yes you are engaging in micro-management. But it shouldn't be called the daily standup anymore.






share|improve this answer





























    7














    If you ask this question, or even if you have troubles answering it, you are likely a victim of dark scrum. A daily scrum meeting, done right, has no micro-management.



    Terms have power, and dark scrum is one of these potentially important terms that I would like to see spread. Scrum was never made for this kind of micro-management, and its mis-use can have dire consequences for developers, projects and scrum itself (as a concept). If you can, consider using the term "dark scrum".



    from the linked page(ronjeffries.com),



    EDIT: I emphasize that below is a description of "dark scrum":




    Every day, the team is supposed to get together and organize the day’s work. This practice, the “Daily Scrum”, is imposed on the typical team. There might be one person in the room, the ScrumMaster, who has been told how it should be done. The programmers haven’t been told. Quite often, even the Product Owner hasn’t been told. Almost certainly other power holders haven’t been told.



    But the power holder already knows his job. His job is to stay on top of what everyone is doing, make sure they’re doing the right things, and redirect them if they’re not. How convenient that there’s a mandatory meeting where he can do that, every single day!



    The result: instead of the team rallying around their joint mission and sorting out a good approach for the day, someone else drags information of of them, processes it in their head, and then tells everyone what to do. Since nothing ever goes quite as we expected yesterday morning, this improper activity often comes with a lot of blame-casting and tension.



    Dark Scrum oppresses the team every day. Self-organization cannot emerge.







    share|improve this answer










    New contributor




    Stefan Karlsson is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
    Check out our Code of Conduct.














    • 3




      Frankly, most engineers do not need to get together and organize the day’s work EVERY day. These are intelligent educated adults who can deal with getting organized on a weekly (or even monthly) basis. I don't see why this answers the question, but I +1'd you for the new term " dark scrum."
      – Danny Schoemann
      yesterday






    • 3




      @DannySchoemann, everyone certainly does not agree with the concept of SCRUM to begin with. You seem to have sound arguments against it. Personally I think the pros out-weigh the cons. regarding the frequency of stand-up meetings, I agree that every-day is not always necessary. Every second day or so seems to work better imho.
      – Stefan Karlsson
      yesterday






    • 2




      @DannySchoemann most engineers don't want to get together and organize every day, but they really should. The closer they work together, the more effective they become as a team. If you can spend a week without communicating with your team, you're at risk of having way too big blocks of work being done without verification that you're still going in the right direction.
      – Erik
      yesterday






    • 1




      @DannySchoemann if you're in constant contact with each other, then why you do say engineers do not need to get together to organize the day's work? It sounds more like you've moved beyond the need for a Daily Scrum than that having one is inherently not useful.
      – Erik
      yesterday






    • 1




      @DannySchoemann, There may be something critical (for good or bad) that requires the groups attention. Maybe the database stored procedures are missing a feature that you cannot implement alone, maybe your expertise is urgently needed due to a new task. Maybe you are the only one who can spot this, but you do it only when you convene at the scrum meeting.
      – Stefan Karlsson
      yesterday



















    2














    When the "stand-up" is properly orchestrated, it's a free exchange of ideas about each other's work. It's meant to enforce collaboration, not confrontation. Unless your manager is actively developing with you (they usually are) they should not be in the meeting.



    Too many times have I worked on projects where people who worked across the isle from each other could have saved the other person 6 months' work.






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      1














      The daily scrum is not to be considered micromanagement because it does not target any individual.



      Nobody feels threatened when everybody has to do it.



      Furthermore it is more about getting more tasks to do then about reporting about yesterdays progressing - so no feel of microm.






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      • 5




        Not sure I agree with your first two sentences. If the Big Boss(TM) is requesting status updates from the Team every day... that's still micro-management; s/he's just micro-managing the Team, rather than individuals.
        – Sarov
        yesterday










      • @sarov The big difference is that the information only flow one way, from the team to the manager. The manager is NOT supposed to use that information to take any specific action. Which is the big difference. If the manager use the information from each daily meeting to make management decisions that would be micro management.
        – MTilsted
        yesterday






      • 4




        If you don't do anything with information, then what's the point of having that information in the first place...?
        – Sarov
        yesterday










      • "[I]t is more about getting more tasks to do then about reporting about yesterdays progressing[.]" What is your source for this? It does not seem to align with anything in the Scrum Guide.
        – Todd A. Jacobs
        18 hours ago










      • "Nobody feels threatened when everybody has to do it." Even if the whole class is playing dodgeball, the small nerdy kid that's getting picked on feels more threatened than the class bully. It's still management even if you do it in a group setting.
        – Zach Lipton
        14 hours ago



















      0














      the dev team has in charge the burn-down chart as status update. In every case the PO have lot of contacts with the dev team during the sprint and he is always update from dev team in case of problem.
      The Big Boss have to ask directly to the PO.



      Stefano






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        6 Answers
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        32














        The Daily Scrum is not an update-to-management meeting!



        From the Scrum Guide (emphasis mine):




        The Daily Scrum is a 15-minute time-boxed event for the Development Team [...] This optimizes team collaboration and performance [...] The Scrum Master ensures that the Development Team has the meeting, but the Development Team is responsible for conducting the Daily Scrum. [...] The Daily Scrum is an internal meeting for the Development Team. If others are present, the Scrum Master ensures that they do not disrupt the meeting.




        If someone outside the Team is asking for progress reports or otherwise attempting to micromanage during the Daily Scrum, the Scrum Master should request for him/her to stop.



        If the developers are automatically reporting to someone outside the Team during the meeting (you can tell this if they always face someone during the meeting) even without being asked, then that someone should be removed from the meeting to remove this temptation.



        If the developers are automatically reporting to someone inside the Team during the meeting (such as the Scrum Master), then steps should be taken by the Scrum Master to discourage this. For example, the Scrum Master could make certain to move about the room during the meeting, to prevent the person speaking from being able to see him/her (and, thus, force the person speaking to shift his/her attention to the group at large).






        share|improve this answer



















        • 5




          Sadly, in my experience this is very unusual. The Project Manager or their manager is almost always serving as Scrum Master on projects I've been involved with.
          – catfood
          yesterday






        • 3




          Or sometimes the Scrum Master is in practice "standing in" for the management.
          – davidbak
          yesterday










        • @davidbak A fair point. I added a paragraph.
          – Sarov
          yesterday






        • 1




          I’m now imagining a scrum master playing hide-and-seek during stand-ups. Thanks for that! :)
          – Ian MacDonald
          14 hours ago
















        32














        The Daily Scrum is not an update-to-management meeting!



        From the Scrum Guide (emphasis mine):




        The Daily Scrum is a 15-minute time-boxed event for the Development Team [...] This optimizes team collaboration and performance [...] The Scrum Master ensures that the Development Team has the meeting, but the Development Team is responsible for conducting the Daily Scrum. [...] The Daily Scrum is an internal meeting for the Development Team. If others are present, the Scrum Master ensures that they do not disrupt the meeting.




        If someone outside the Team is asking for progress reports or otherwise attempting to micromanage during the Daily Scrum, the Scrum Master should request for him/her to stop.



        If the developers are automatically reporting to someone outside the Team during the meeting (you can tell this if they always face someone during the meeting) even without being asked, then that someone should be removed from the meeting to remove this temptation.



        If the developers are automatically reporting to someone inside the Team during the meeting (such as the Scrum Master), then steps should be taken by the Scrum Master to discourage this. For example, the Scrum Master could make certain to move about the room during the meeting, to prevent the person speaking from being able to see him/her (and, thus, force the person speaking to shift his/her attention to the group at large).






        share|improve this answer



















        • 5




          Sadly, in my experience this is very unusual. The Project Manager or their manager is almost always serving as Scrum Master on projects I've been involved with.
          – catfood
          yesterday






        • 3




          Or sometimes the Scrum Master is in practice "standing in" for the management.
          – davidbak
          yesterday










        • @davidbak A fair point. I added a paragraph.
          – Sarov
          yesterday






        • 1




          I’m now imagining a scrum master playing hide-and-seek during stand-ups. Thanks for that! :)
          – Ian MacDonald
          14 hours ago














        32












        32








        32






        The Daily Scrum is not an update-to-management meeting!



        From the Scrum Guide (emphasis mine):




        The Daily Scrum is a 15-minute time-boxed event for the Development Team [...] This optimizes team collaboration and performance [...] The Scrum Master ensures that the Development Team has the meeting, but the Development Team is responsible for conducting the Daily Scrum. [...] The Daily Scrum is an internal meeting for the Development Team. If others are present, the Scrum Master ensures that they do not disrupt the meeting.




        If someone outside the Team is asking for progress reports or otherwise attempting to micromanage during the Daily Scrum, the Scrum Master should request for him/her to stop.



        If the developers are automatically reporting to someone outside the Team during the meeting (you can tell this if they always face someone during the meeting) even without being asked, then that someone should be removed from the meeting to remove this temptation.



        If the developers are automatically reporting to someone inside the Team during the meeting (such as the Scrum Master), then steps should be taken by the Scrum Master to discourage this. For example, the Scrum Master could make certain to move about the room during the meeting, to prevent the person speaking from being able to see him/her (and, thus, force the person speaking to shift his/her attention to the group at large).






        share|improve this answer














        The Daily Scrum is not an update-to-management meeting!



        From the Scrum Guide (emphasis mine):




        The Daily Scrum is a 15-minute time-boxed event for the Development Team [...] This optimizes team collaboration and performance [...] The Scrum Master ensures that the Development Team has the meeting, but the Development Team is responsible for conducting the Daily Scrum. [...] The Daily Scrum is an internal meeting for the Development Team. If others are present, the Scrum Master ensures that they do not disrupt the meeting.




        If someone outside the Team is asking for progress reports or otherwise attempting to micromanage during the Daily Scrum, the Scrum Master should request for him/her to stop.



        If the developers are automatically reporting to someone outside the Team during the meeting (you can tell this if they always face someone during the meeting) even without being asked, then that someone should be removed from the meeting to remove this temptation.



        If the developers are automatically reporting to someone inside the Team during the meeting (such as the Scrum Master), then steps should be taken by the Scrum Master to discourage this. For example, the Scrum Master could make certain to move about the room during the meeting, to prevent the person speaking from being able to see him/her (and, thus, force the person speaking to shift his/her attention to the group at large).







        share|improve this answer














        share|improve this answer



        share|improve this answer








        edited yesterday

























        answered yesterday









        Sarov

        8,69421841




        8,69421841








        • 5




          Sadly, in my experience this is very unusual. The Project Manager or their manager is almost always serving as Scrum Master on projects I've been involved with.
          – catfood
          yesterday






        • 3




          Or sometimes the Scrum Master is in practice "standing in" for the management.
          – davidbak
          yesterday










        • @davidbak A fair point. I added a paragraph.
          – Sarov
          yesterday






        • 1




          I’m now imagining a scrum master playing hide-and-seek during stand-ups. Thanks for that! :)
          – Ian MacDonald
          14 hours ago














        • 5




          Sadly, in my experience this is very unusual. The Project Manager or their manager is almost always serving as Scrum Master on projects I've been involved with.
          – catfood
          yesterday






        • 3




          Or sometimes the Scrum Master is in practice "standing in" for the management.
          – davidbak
          yesterday










        • @davidbak A fair point. I added a paragraph.
          – Sarov
          yesterday






        • 1




          I’m now imagining a scrum master playing hide-and-seek during stand-ups. Thanks for that! :)
          – Ian MacDonald
          14 hours ago








        5




        5




        Sadly, in my experience this is very unusual. The Project Manager or their manager is almost always serving as Scrum Master on projects I've been involved with.
        – catfood
        yesterday




        Sadly, in my experience this is very unusual. The Project Manager or their manager is almost always serving as Scrum Master on projects I've been involved with.
        – catfood
        yesterday




        3




        3




        Or sometimes the Scrum Master is in practice "standing in" for the management.
        – davidbak
        yesterday




        Or sometimes the Scrum Master is in practice "standing in" for the management.
        – davidbak
        yesterday












        @davidbak A fair point. I added a paragraph.
        – Sarov
        yesterday




        @davidbak A fair point. I added a paragraph.
        – Sarov
        yesterday




        1




        1




        I’m now imagining a scrum master playing hide-and-seek during stand-ups. Thanks for that! :)
        – Ian MacDonald
        14 hours ago




        I’m now imagining a scrum master playing hide-and-seek during stand-ups. Thanks for that! :)
        – Ian MacDonald
        14 hours ago











        8














        In addition to Sarov's excellent answer, there is also the purpose of the meeting.



        The daily standup is not a management engagement. Neither the Scrum Master nor any other project or senior manager is doing any managing during the daily standup. I see this even stronger than Sarov does - not only is management not being reported to, there is also no flow from management towards the team. Nobody tells the team what to do or how to do it during the daily standup. There is no management activity going on during the daily standup and that is why it isn't micro-management - because it isn't management at all.



        That doesn't mean this culture as-written is strictly put into practice in your environment, so your confusion might very well result from the practice being different from the book. If management has taken over the daily standup and is using it to micro-manage the team, then indeed the daily standup has become micro-management. If you continue to run it in that way, then yes you are engaging in micro-management. But it shouldn't be called the daily standup anymore.






        share|improve this answer


























          8














          In addition to Sarov's excellent answer, there is also the purpose of the meeting.



          The daily standup is not a management engagement. Neither the Scrum Master nor any other project or senior manager is doing any managing during the daily standup. I see this even stronger than Sarov does - not only is management not being reported to, there is also no flow from management towards the team. Nobody tells the team what to do or how to do it during the daily standup. There is no management activity going on during the daily standup and that is why it isn't micro-management - because it isn't management at all.



          That doesn't mean this culture as-written is strictly put into practice in your environment, so your confusion might very well result from the practice being different from the book. If management has taken over the daily standup and is using it to micro-manage the team, then indeed the daily standup has become micro-management. If you continue to run it in that way, then yes you are engaging in micro-management. But it shouldn't be called the daily standup anymore.






          share|improve this answer
























            8












            8








            8






            In addition to Sarov's excellent answer, there is also the purpose of the meeting.



            The daily standup is not a management engagement. Neither the Scrum Master nor any other project or senior manager is doing any managing during the daily standup. I see this even stronger than Sarov does - not only is management not being reported to, there is also no flow from management towards the team. Nobody tells the team what to do or how to do it during the daily standup. There is no management activity going on during the daily standup and that is why it isn't micro-management - because it isn't management at all.



            That doesn't mean this culture as-written is strictly put into practice in your environment, so your confusion might very well result from the practice being different from the book. If management has taken over the daily standup and is using it to micro-manage the team, then indeed the daily standup has become micro-management. If you continue to run it in that way, then yes you are engaging in micro-management. But it shouldn't be called the daily standup anymore.






            share|improve this answer












            In addition to Sarov's excellent answer, there is also the purpose of the meeting.



            The daily standup is not a management engagement. Neither the Scrum Master nor any other project or senior manager is doing any managing during the daily standup. I see this even stronger than Sarov does - not only is management not being reported to, there is also no flow from management towards the team. Nobody tells the team what to do or how to do it during the daily standup. There is no management activity going on during the daily standup and that is why it isn't micro-management - because it isn't management at all.



            That doesn't mean this culture as-written is strictly put into practice in your environment, so your confusion might very well result from the practice being different from the book. If management has taken over the daily standup and is using it to micro-manage the team, then indeed the daily standup has become micro-management. If you continue to run it in that way, then yes you are engaging in micro-management. But it shouldn't be called the daily standup anymore.







            share|improve this answer












            share|improve this answer



            share|improve this answer










            answered yesterday









            Tom

            22112




            22112























                7














                If you ask this question, or even if you have troubles answering it, you are likely a victim of dark scrum. A daily scrum meeting, done right, has no micro-management.



                Terms have power, and dark scrum is one of these potentially important terms that I would like to see spread. Scrum was never made for this kind of micro-management, and its mis-use can have dire consequences for developers, projects and scrum itself (as a concept). If you can, consider using the term "dark scrum".



                from the linked page(ronjeffries.com),



                EDIT: I emphasize that below is a description of "dark scrum":




                Every day, the team is supposed to get together and organize the day’s work. This practice, the “Daily Scrum”, is imposed on the typical team. There might be one person in the room, the ScrumMaster, who has been told how it should be done. The programmers haven’t been told. Quite often, even the Product Owner hasn’t been told. Almost certainly other power holders haven’t been told.



                But the power holder already knows his job. His job is to stay on top of what everyone is doing, make sure they’re doing the right things, and redirect them if they’re not. How convenient that there’s a mandatory meeting where he can do that, every single day!



                The result: instead of the team rallying around their joint mission and sorting out a good approach for the day, someone else drags information of of them, processes it in their head, and then tells everyone what to do. Since nothing ever goes quite as we expected yesterday morning, this improper activity often comes with a lot of blame-casting and tension.



                Dark Scrum oppresses the team every day. Self-organization cannot emerge.







                share|improve this answer










                New contributor




                Stefan Karlsson is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                Check out our Code of Conduct.














                • 3




                  Frankly, most engineers do not need to get together and organize the day’s work EVERY day. These are intelligent educated adults who can deal with getting organized on a weekly (or even monthly) basis. I don't see why this answers the question, but I +1'd you for the new term " dark scrum."
                  – Danny Schoemann
                  yesterday






                • 3




                  @DannySchoemann, everyone certainly does not agree with the concept of SCRUM to begin with. You seem to have sound arguments against it. Personally I think the pros out-weigh the cons. regarding the frequency of stand-up meetings, I agree that every-day is not always necessary. Every second day or so seems to work better imho.
                  – Stefan Karlsson
                  yesterday






                • 2




                  @DannySchoemann most engineers don't want to get together and organize every day, but they really should. The closer they work together, the more effective they become as a team. If you can spend a week without communicating with your team, you're at risk of having way too big blocks of work being done without verification that you're still going in the right direction.
                  – Erik
                  yesterday






                • 1




                  @DannySchoemann if you're in constant contact with each other, then why you do say engineers do not need to get together to organize the day's work? It sounds more like you've moved beyond the need for a Daily Scrum than that having one is inherently not useful.
                  – Erik
                  yesterday






                • 1




                  @DannySchoemann, There may be something critical (for good or bad) that requires the groups attention. Maybe the database stored procedures are missing a feature that you cannot implement alone, maybe your expertise is urgently needed due to a new task. Maybe you are the only one who can spot this, but you do it only when you convene at the scrum meeting.
                  – Stefan Karlsson
                  yesterday
















                7














                If you ask this question, or even if you have troubles answering it, you are likely a victim of dark scrum. A daily scrum meeting, done right, has no micro-management.



                Terms have power, and dark scrum is one of these potentially important terms that I would like to see spread. Scrum was never made for this kind of micro-management, and its mis-use can have dire consequences for developers, projects and scrum itself (as a concept). If you can, consider using the term "dark scrum".



                from the linked page(ronjeffries.com),



                EDIT: I emphasize that below is a description of "dark scrum":




                Every day, the team is supposed to get together and organize the day’s work. This practice, the “Daily Scrum”, is imposed on the typical team. There might be one person in the room, the ScrumMaster, who has been told how it should be done. The programmers haven’t been told. Quite often, even the Product Owner hasn’t been told. Almost certainly other power holders haven’t been told.



                But the power holder already knows his job. His job is to stay on top of what everyone is doing, make sure they’re doing the right things, and redirect them if they’re not. How convenient that there’s a mandatory meeting where he can do that, every single day!



                The result: instead of the team rallying around their joint mission and sorting out a good approach for the day, someone else drags information of of them, processes it in their head, and then tells everyone what to do. Since nothing ever goes quite as we expected yesterday morning, this improper activity often comes with a lot of blame-casting and tension.



                Dark Scrum oppresses the team every day. Self-organization cannot emerge.







                share|improve this answer










                New contributor




                Stefan Karlsson is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                Check out our Code of Conduct.














                • 3




                  Frankly, most engineers do not need to get together and organize the day’s work EVERY day. These are intelligent educated adults who can deal with getting organized on a weekly (or even monthly) basis. I don't see why this answers the question, but I +1'd you for the new term " dark scrum."
                  – Danny Schoemann
                  yesterday






                • 3




                  @DannySchoemann, everyone certainly does not agree with the concept of SCRUM to begin with. You seem to have sound arguments against it. Personally I think the pros out-weigh the cons. regarding the frequency of stand-up meetings, I agree that every-day is not always necessary. Every second day or so seems to work better imho.
                  – Stefan Karlsson
                  yesterday






                • 2




                  @DannySchoemann most engineers don't want to get together and organize every day, but they really should. The closer they work together, the more effective they become as a team. If you can spend a week without communicating with your team, you're at risk of having way too big blocks of work being done without verification that you're still going in the right direction.
                  – Erik
                  yesterday






                • 1




                  @DannySchoemann if you're in constant contact with each other, then why you do say engineers do not need to get together to organize the day's work? It sounds more like you've moved beyond the need for a Daily Scrum than that having one is inherently not useful.
                  – Erik
                  yesterday






                • 1




                  @DannySchoemann, There may be something critical (for good or bad) that requires the groups attention. Maybe the database stored procedures are missing a feature that you cannot implement alone, maybe your expertise is urgently needed due to a new task. Maybe you are the only one who can spot this, but you do it only when you convene at the scrum meeting.
                  – Stefan Karlsson
                  yesterday














                7












                7








                7






                If you ask this question, or even if you have troubles answering it, you are likely a victim of dark scrum. A daily scrum meeting, done right, has no micro-management.



                Terms have power, and dark scrum is one of these potentially important terms that I would like to see spread. Scrum was never made for this kind of micro-management, and its mis-use can have dire consequences for developers, projects and scrum itself (as a concept). If you can, consider using the term "dark scrum".



                from the linked page(ronjeffries.com),



                EDIT: I emphasize that below is a description of "dark scrum":




                Every day, the team is supposed to get together and organize the day’s work. This practice, the “Daily Scrum”, is imposed on the typical team. There might be one person in the room, the ScrumMaster, who has been told how it should be done. The programmers haven’t been told. Quite often, even the Product Owner hasn’t been told. Almost certainly other power holders haven’t been told.



                But the power holder already knows his job. His job is to stay on top of what everyone is doing, make sure they’re doing the right things, and redirect them if they’re not. How convenient that there’s a mandatory meeting where he can do that, every single day!



                The result: instead of the team rallying around their joint mission and sorting out a good approach for the day, someone else drags information of of them, processes it in their head, and then tells everyone what to do. Since nothing ever goes quite as we expected yesterday morning, this improper activity often comes with a lot of blame-casting and tension.



                Dark Scrum oppresses the team every day. Self-organization cannot emerge.







                share|improve this answer










                New contributor




                Stefan Karlsson is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                Check out our Code of Conduct.









                If you ask this question, or even if you have troubles answering it, you are likely a victim of dark scrum. A daily scrum meeting, done right, has no micro-management.



                Terms have power, and dark scrum is one of these potentially important terms that I would like to see spread. Scrum was never made for this kind of micro-management, and its mis-use can have dire consequences for developers, projects and scrum itself (as a concept). If you can, consider using the term "dark scrum".



                from the linked page(ronjeffries.com),



                EDIT: I emphasize that below is a description of "dark scrum":




                Every day, the team is supposed to get together and organize the day’s work. This practice, the “Daily Scrum”, is imposed on the typical team. There might be one person in the room, the ScrumMaster, who has been told how it should be done. The programmers haven’t been told. Quite often, even the Product Owner hasn’t been told. Almost certainly other power holders haven’t been told.



                But the power holder already knows his job. His job is to stay on top of what everyone is doing, make sure they’re doing the right things, and redirect them if they’re not. How convenient that there’s a mandatory meeting where he can do that, every single day!



                The result: instead of the team rallying around their joint mission and sorting out a good approach for the day, someone else drags information of of them, processes it in their head, and then tells everyone what to do. Since nothing ever goes quite as we expected yesterday morning, this improper activity often comes with a lot of blame-casting and tension.



                Dark Scrum oppresses the team every day. Self-organization cannot emerge.








                share|improve this answer










                New contributor




                Stefan Karlsson is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                Check out our Code of Conduct.









                share|improve this answer



                share|improve this answer








                edited 21 hours ago





















                New contributor




                Stefan Karlsson is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                Check out our Code of Conduct.









                answered yesterday









                Stefan Karlsson

                1712




                1712




                New contributor




                Stefan Karlsson is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                Check out our Code of Conduct.





                New contributor





                Stefan Karlsson is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                Check out our Code of Conduct.






                Stefan Karlsson is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                Check out our Code of Conduct.








                • 3




                  Frankly, most engineers do not need to get together and organize the day’s work EVERY day. These are intelligent educated adults who can deal with getting organized on a weekly (or even monthly) basis. I don't see why this answers the question, but I +1'd you for the new term " dark scrum."
                  – Danny Schoemann
                  yesterday






                • 3




                  @DannySchoemann, everyone certainly does not agree with the concept of SCRUM to begin with. You seem to have sound arguments against it. Personally I think the pros out-weigh the cons. regarding the frequency of stand-up meetings, I agree that every-day is not always necessary. Every second day or so seems to work better imho.
                  – Stefan Karlsson
                  yesterday






                • 2




                  @DannySchoemann most engineers don't want to get together and organize every day, but they really should. The closer they work together, the more effective they become as a team. If you can spend a week without communicating with your team, you're at risk of having way too big blocks of work being done without verification that you're still going in the right direction.
                  – Erik
                  yesterday






                • 1




                  @DannySchoemann if you're in constant contact with each other, then why you do say engineers do not need to get together to organize the day's work? It sounds more like you've moved beyond the need for a Daily Scrum than that having one is inherently not useful.
                  – Erik
                  yesterday






                • 1




                  @DannySchoemann, There may be something critical (for good or bad) that requires the groups attention. Maybe the database stored procedures are missing a feature that you cannot implement alone, maybe your expertise is urgently needed due to a new task. Maybe you are the only one who can spot this, but you do it only when you convene at the scrum meeting.
                  – Stefan Karlsson
                  yesterday














                • 3




                  Frankly, most engineers do not need to get together and organize the day’s work EVERY day. These are intelligent educated adults who can deal with getting organized on a weekly (or even monthly) basis. I don't see why this answers the question, but I +1'd you for the new term " dark scrum."
                  – Danny Schoemann
                  yesterday






                • 3




                  @DannySchoemann, everyone certainly does not agree with the concept of SCRUM to begin with. You seem to have sound arguments against it. Personally I think the pros out-weigh the cons. regarding the frequency of stand-up meetings, I agree that every-day is not always necessary. Every second day or so seems to work better imho.
                  – Stefan Karlsson
                  yesterday






                • 2




                  @DannySchoemann most engineers don't want to get together and organize every day, but they really should. The closer they work together, the more effective they become as a team. If you can spend a week without communicating with your team, you're at risk of having way too big blocks of work being done without verification that you're still going in the right direction.
                  – Erik
                  yesterday






                • 1




                  @DannySchoemann if you're in constant contact with each other, then why you do say engineers do not need to get together to organize the day's work? It sounds more like you've moved beyond the need for a Daily Scrum than that having one is inherently not useful.
                  – Erik
                  yesterday






                • 1




                  @DannySchoemann, There may be something critical (for good or bad) that requires the groups attention. Maybe the database stored procedures are missing a feature that you cannot implement alone, maybe your expertise is urgently needed due to a new task. Maybe you are the only one who can spot this, but you do it only when you convene at the scrum meeting.
                  – Stefan Karlsson
                  yesterday








                3




                3




                Frankly, most engineers do not need to get together and organize the day’s work EVERY day. These are intelligent educated adults who can deal with getting organized on a weekly (or even monthly) basis. I don't see why this answers the question, but I +1'd you for the new term " dark scrum."
                – Danny Schoemann
                yesterday




                Frankly, most engineers do not need to get together and organize the day’s work EVERY day. These are intelligent educated adults who can deal with getting organized on a weekly (or even monthly) basis. I don't see why this answers the question, but I +1'd you for the new term " dark scrum."
                – Danny Schoemann
                yesterday




                3




                3




                @DannySchoemann, everyone certainly does not agree with the concept of SCRUM to begin with. You seem to have sound arguments against it. Personally I think the pros out-weigh the cons. regarding the frequency of stand-up meetings, I agree that every-day is not always necessary. Every second day or so seems to work better imho.
                – Stefan Karlsson
                yesterday




                @DannySchoemann, everyone certainly does not agree with the concept of SCRUM to begin with. You seem to have sound arguments against it. Personally I think the pros out-weigh the cons. regarding the frequency of stand-up meetings, I agree that every-day is not always necessary. Every second day or so seems to work better imho.
                – Stefan Karlsson
                yesterday




                2




                2




                @DannySchoemann most engineers don't want to get together and organize every day, but they really should. The closer they work together, the more effective they become as a team. If you can spend a week without communicating with your team, you're at risk of having way too big blocks of work being done without verification that you're still going in the right direction.
                – Erik
                yesterday




                @DannySchoemann most engineers don't want to get together and organize every day, but they really should. The closer they work together, the more effective they become as a team. If you can spend a week without communicating with your team, you're at risk of having way too big blocks of work being done without verification that you're still going in the right direction.
                – Erik
                yesterday




                1




                1




                @DannySchoemann if you're in constant contact with each other, then why you do say engineers do not need to get together to organize the day's work? It sounds more like you've moved beyond the need for a Daily Scrum than that having one is inherently not useful.
                – Erik
                yesterday




                @DannySchoemann if you're in constant contact with each other, then why you do say engineers do not need to get together to organize the day's work? It sounds more like you've moved beyond the need for a Daily Scrum than that having one is inherently not useful.
                – Erik
                yesterday




                1




                1




                @DannySchoemann, There may be something critical (for good or bad) that requires the groups attention. Maybe the database stored procedures are missing a feature that you cannot implement alone, maybe your expertise is urgently needed due to a new task. Maybe you are the only one who can spot this, but you do it only when you convene at the scrum meeting.
                – Stefan Karlsson
                yesterday




                @DannySchoemann, There may be something critical (for good or bad) that requires the groups attention. Maybe the database stored procedures are missing a feature that you cannot implement alone, maybe your expertise is urgently needed due to a new task. Maybe you are the only one who can spot this, but you do it only when you convene at the scrum meeting.
                – Stefan Karlsson
                yesterday











                2














                When the "stand-up" is properly orchestrated, it's a free exchange of ideas about each other's work. It's meant to enforce collaboration, not confrontation. Unless your manager is actively developing with you (they usually are) they should not be in the meeting.



                Too many times have I worked on projects where people who worked across the isle from each other could have saved the other person 6 months' work.






                share|improve this answer










                New contributor




                Eric Texley is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                Check out our Code of Conduct.























                  2














                  When the "stand-up" is properly orchestrated, it's a free exchange of ideas about each other's work. It's meant to enforce collaboration, not confrontation. Unless your manager is actively developing with you (they usually are) they should not be in the meeting.



                  Too many times have I worked on projects where people who worked across the isle from each other could have saved the other person 6 months' work.






                  share|improve this answer










                  New contributor




                  Eric Texley is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                  Check out our Code of Conduct.





















                    2












                    2








                    2






                    When the "stand-up" is properly orchestrated, it's a free exchange of ideas about each other's work. It's meant to enforce collaboration, not confrontation. Unless your manager is actively developing with you (they usually are) they should not be in the meeting.



                    Too many times have I worked on projects where people who worked across the isle from each other could have saved the other person 6 months' work.






                    share|improve this answer










                    New contributor




                    Eric Texley is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                    Check out our Code of Conduct.









                    When the "stand-up" is properly orchestrated, it's a free exchange of ideas about each other's work. It's meant to enforce collaboration, not confrontation. Unless your manager is actively developing with you (they usually are) they should not be in the meeting.



                    Too many times have I worked on projects where people who worked across the isle from each other could have saved the other person 6 months' work.







                    share|improve this answer










                    New contributor




                    Eric Texley is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                    Check out our Code of Conduct.









                    share|improve this answer



                    share|improve this answer








                    edited yesterday









                    Sarov

                    8,69421841




                    8,69421841






                    New contributor




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                    answered yesterday









                    Eric Texley

                    211




                    211




                    New contributor




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                    New contributor





                    Eric Texley is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                    Check out our Code of Conduct.






                    Eric Texley is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                    Check out our Code of Conduct.























                        1














                        The daily scrum is not to be considered micromanagement because it does not target any individual.



                        Nobody feels threatened when everybody has to do it.



                        Furthermore it is more about getting more tasks to do then about reporting about yesterdays progressing - so no feel of microm.






                        share|improve this answer








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                        • 5




                          Not sure I agree with your first two sentences. If the Big Boss(TM) is requesting status updates from the Team every day... that's still micro-management; s/he's just micro-managing the Team, rather than individuals.
                          – Sarov
                          yesterday










                        • @sarov The big difference is that the information only flow one way, from the team to the manager. The manager is NOT supposed to use that information to take any specific action. Which is the big difference. If the manager use the information from each daily meeting to make management decisions that would be micro management.
                          – MTilsted
                          yesterday






                        • 4




                          If you don't do anything with information, then what's the point of having that information in the first place...?
                          – Sarov
                          yesterday










                        • "[I]t is more about getting more tasks to do then about reporting about yesterdays progressing[.]" What is your source for this? It does not seem to align with anything in the Scrum Guide.
                          – Todd A. Jacobs
                          18 hours ago










                        • "Nobody feels threatened when everybody has to do it." Even if the whole class is playing dodgeball, the small nerdy kid that's getting picked on feels more threatened than the class bully. It's still management even if you do it in a group setting.
                          – Zach Lipton
                          14 hours ago
















                        1














                        The daily scrum is not to be considered micromanagement because it does not target any individual.



                        Nobody feels threatened when everybody has to do it.



                        Furthermore it is more about getting more tasks to do then about reporting about yesterdays progressing - so no feel of microm.






                        share|improve this answer








                        New contributor




                        Issy Forst is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                        Check out our Code of Conduct.














                        • 5




                          Not sure I agree with your first two sentences. If the Big Boss(TM) is requesting status updates from the Team every day... that's still micro-management; s/he's just micro-managing the Team, rather than individuals.
                          – Sarov
                          yesterday










                        • @sarov The big difference is that the information only flow one way, from the team to the manager. The manager is NOT supposed to use that information to take any specific action. Which is the big difference. If the manager use the information from each daily meeting to make management decisions that would be micro management.
                          – MTilsted
                          yesterday






                        • 4




                          If you don't do anything with information, then what's the point of having that information in the first place...?
                          – Sarov
                          yesterday










                        • "[I]t is more about getting more tasks to do then about reporting about yesterdays progressing[.]" What is your source for this? It does not seem to align with anything in the Scrum Guide.
                          – Todd A. Jacobs
                          18 hours ago










                        • "Nobody feels threatened when everybody has to do it." Even if the whole class is playing dodgeball, the small nerdy kid that's getting picked on feels more threatened than the class bully. It's still management even if you do it in a group setting.
                          – Zach Lipton
                          14 hours ago














                        1












                        1








                        1






                        The daily scrum is not to be considered micromanagement because it does not target any individual.



                        Nobody feels threatened when everybody has to do it.



                        Furthermore it is more about getting more tasks to do then about reporting about yesterdays progressing - so no feel of microm.






                        share|improve this answer








                        New contributor




                        Issy Forst is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                        Check out our Code of Conduct.









                        The daily scrum is not to be considered micromanagement because it does not target any individual.



                        Nobody feels threatened when everybody has to do it.



                        Furthermore it is more about getting more tasks to do then about reporting about yesterdays progressing - so no feel of microm.







                        share|improve this answer








                        New contributor




                        Issy Forst is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                        Check out our Code of Conduct.









                        share|improve this answer



                        share|improve this answer






                        New contributor




                        Issy Forst is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                        Check out our Code of Conduct.









                        answered yesterday









                        Issy Forst

                        318




                        318




                        New contributor




                        Issy Forst is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                        Check out our Code of Conduct.





                        New contributor





                        Issy Forst is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                        Check out our Code of Conduct.






                        Issy Forst is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                        Check out our Code of Conduct.








                        • 5




                          Not sure I agree with your first two sentences. If the Big Boss(TM) is requesting status updates from the Team every day... that's still micro-management; s/he's just micro-managing the Team, rather than individuals.
                          – Sarov
                          yesterday










                        • @sarov The big difference is that the information only flow one way, from the team to the manager. The manager is NOT supposed to use that information to take any specific action. Which is the big difference. If the manager use the information from each daily meeting to make management decisions that would be micro management.
                          – MTilsted
                          yesterday






                        • 4




                          If you don't do anything with information, then what's the point of having that information in the first place...?
                          – Sarov
                          yesterday










                        • "[I]t is more about getting more tasks to do then about reporting about yesterdays progressing[.]" What is your source for this? It does not seem to align with anything in the Scrum Guide.
                          – Todd A. Jacobs
                          18 hours ago










                        • "Nobody feels threatened when everybody has to do it." Even if the whole class is playing dodgeball, the small nerdy kid that's getting picked on feels more threatened than the class bully. It's still management even if you do it in a group setting.
                          – Zach Lipton
                          14 hours ago














                        • 5




                          Not sure I agree with your first two sentences. If the Big Boss(TM) is requesting status updates from the Team every day... that's still micro-management; s/he's just micro-managing the Team, rather than individuals.
                          – Sarov
                          yesterday










                        • @sarov The big difference is that the information only flow one way, from the team to the manager. The manager is NOT supposed to use that information to take any specific action. Which is the big difference. If the manager use the information from each daily meeting to make management decisions that would be micro management.
                          – MTilsted
                          yesterday






                        • 4




                          If you don't do anything with information, then what's the point of having that information in the first place...?
                          – Sarov
                          yesterday










                        • "[I]t is more about getting more tasks to do then about reporting about yesterdays progressing[.]" What is your source for this? It does not seem to align with anything in the Scrum Guide.
                          – Todd A. Jacobs
                          18 hours ago










                        • "Nobody feels threatened when everybody has to do it." Even if the whole class is playing dodgeball, the small nerdy kid that's getting picked on feels more threatened than the class bully. It's still management even if you do it in a group setting.
                          – Zach Lipton
                          14 hours ago








                        5




                        5




                        Not sure I agree with your first two sentences. If the Big Boss(TM) is requesting status updates from the Team every day... that's still micro-management; s/he's just micro-managing the Team, rather than individuals.
                        – Sarov
                        yesterday




                        Not sure I agree with your first two sentences. If the Big Boss(TM) is requesting status updates from the Team every day... that's still micro-management; s/he's just micro-managing the Team, rather than individuals.
                        – Sarov
                        yesterday












                        @sarov The big difference is that the information only flow one way, from the team to the manager. The manager is NOT supposed to use that information to take any specific action. Which is the big difference. If the manager use the information from each daily meeting to make management decisions that would be micro management.
                        – MTilsted
                        yesterday




                        @sarov The big difference is that the information only flow one way, from the team to the manager. The manager is NOT supposed to use that information to take any specific action. Which is the big difference. If the manager use the information from each daily meeting to make management decisions that would be micro management.
                        – MTilsted
                        yesterday




                        4




                        4




                        If you don't do anything with information, then what's the point of having that information in the first place...?
                        – Sarov
                        yesterday




                        If you don't do anything with information, then what's the point of having that information in the first place...?
                        – Sarov
                        yesterday












                        "[I]t is more about getting more tasks to do then about reporting about yesterdays progressing[.]" What is your source for this? It does not seem to align with anything in the Scrum Guide.
                        – Todd A. Jacobs
                        18 hours ago




                        "[I]t is more about getting more tasks to do then about reporting about yesterdays progressing[.]" What is your source for this? It does not seem to align with anything in the Scrum Guide.
                        – Todd A. Jacobs
                        18 hours ago












                        "Nobody feels threatened when everybody has to do it." Even if the whole class is playing dodgeball, the small nerdy kid that's getting picked on feels more threatened than the class bully. It's still management even if you do it in a group setting.
                        – Zach Lipton
                        14 hours ago




                        "Nobody feels threatened when everybody has to do it." Even if the whole class is playing dodgeball, the small nerdy kid that's getting picked on feels more threatened than the class bully. It's still management even if you do it in a group setting.
                        – Zach Lipton
                        14 hours ago











                        0














                        the dev team has in charge the burn-down chart as status update. In every case the PO have lot of contacts with the dev team during the sprint and he is always update from dev team in case of problem.
                        The Big Boss have to ask directly to the PO.



                        Stefano






                        share|improve this answer










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                          0














                          the dev team has in charge the burn-down chart as status update. In every case the PO have lot of contacts with the dev team during the sprint and he is always update from dev team in case of problem.
                          The Big Boss have to ask directly to the PO.



                          Stefano






                          share|improve this answer










                          New contributor




                          Stefano Pedone is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                          Check out our Code of Conduct.





















                            0












                            0








                            0






                            the dev team has in charge the burn-down chart as status update. In every case the PO have lot of contacts with the dev team during the sprint and he is always update from dev team in case of problem.
                            The Big Boss have to ask directly to the PO.



                            Stefano






                            share|improve this answer










                            New contributor




                            Stefano Pedone is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                            Check out our Code of Conduct.









                            the dev team has in charge the burn-down chart as status update. In every case the PO have lot of contacts with the dev team during the sprint and he is always update from dev team in case of problem.
                            The Big Boss have to ask directly to the PO.



                            Stefano







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                            answered 15 hours ago









                            Stefano Pedone

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