$fcirc g$ vs $gcirc f $ Riemann integrable [closed]












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$begingroup$


Let $f, g : [0,1] rightarrow mathbb{R}$ be defined by
$ f(x) = begin{cases} frac{1}{q} text{if $x = p/q$ and $gcd(p,q)=1$, $p, q in mathbb{N}$} \ 0 text{otherwise} end{cases}$



and $g(x) = begin{cases} 1 text {if $xin mathbb{Q} $ }\ 0 text{otherwise} end{cases}$



then choose the correct option



$1)$ $fcirc g$ is Riemann integrable



$2)$ $gcirc f$ is Riemann integrable



My attempt : I think both $1)$ and $2)$ are Riemann integrable because composition of Riemann integrable is Riemann integrable



any hints/solution










share|cite|improve this question











$endgroup$



closed as off-topic by RRL, A. Pongrácz, Cesareo, metamorphy, José Carlos Santos Jan 19 at 17:27


This question appears to be off-topic. The users who voted to close gave this specific reason:


  • "This question is missing context or other details: Please provide additional context, which ideally explains why the question is relevant to you and our community. Some forms of context include: background and motivation, relevant definitions, source, possible strategies, your current progress, why the question is interesting or important, etc." – RRL, A. Pongrácz, Cesareo, metamorphy, José Carlos Santos

If this question can be reworded to fit the rules in the help center, please edit the question.





















    0












    $begingroup$


    Let $f, g : [0,1] rightarrow mathbb{R}$ be defined by
    $ f(x) = begin{cases} frac{1}{q} text{if $x = p/q$ and $gcd(p,q)=1$, $p, q in mathbb{N}$} \ 0 text{otherwise} end{cases}$



    and $g(x) = begin{cases} 1 text {if $xin mathbb{Q} $ }\ 0 text{otherwise} end{cases}$



    then choose the correct option



    $1)$ $fcirc g$ is Riemann integrable



    $2)$ $gcirc f$ is Riemann integrable



    My attempt : I think both $1)$ and $2)$ are Riemann integrable because composition of Riemann integrable is Riemann integrable



    any hints/solution










    share|cite|improve this question











    $endgroup$



    closed as off-topic by RRL, A. Pongrácz, Cesareo, metamorphy, José Carlos Santos Jan 19 at 17:27


    This question appears to be off-topic. The users who voted to close gave this specific reason:


    • "This question is missing context or other details: Please provide additional context, which ideally explains why the question is relevant to you and our community. Some forms of context include: background and motivation, relevant definitions, source, possible strategies, your current progress, why the question is interesting or important, etc." – RRL, A. Pongrácz, Cesareo, metamorphy, José Carlos Santos

    If this question can be reworded to fit the rules in the help center, please edit the question.



















      0












      0








      0


      0



      $begingroup$


      Let $f, g : [0,1] rightarrow mathbb{R}$ be defined by
      $ f(x) = begin{cases} frac{1}{q} text{if $x = p/q$ and $gcd(p,q)=1$, $p, q in mathbb{N}$} \ 0 text{otherwise} end{cases}$



      and $g(x) = begin{cases} 1 text {if $xin mathbb{Q} $ }\ 0 text{otherwise} end{cases}$



      then choose the correct option



      $1)$ $fcirc g$ is Riemann integrable



      $2)$ $gcirc f$ is Riemann integrable



      My attempt : I think both $1)$ and $2)$ are Riemann integrable because composition of Riemann integrable is Riemann integrable



      any hints/solution










      share|cite|improve this question











      $endgroup$




      Let $f, g : [0,1] rightarrow mathbb{R}$ be defined by
      $ f(x) = begin{cases} frac{1}{q} text{if $x = p/q$ and $gcd(p,q)=1$, $p, q in mathbb{N}$} \ 0 text{otherwise} end{cases}$



      and $g(x) = begin{cases} 1 text {if $xin mathbb{Q} $ }\ 0 text{otherwise} end{cases}$



      then choose the correct option



      $1)$ $fcirc g$ is Riemann integrable



      $2)$ $gcirc f$ is Riemann integrable



      My attempt : I think both $1)$ and $2)$ are Riemann integrable because composition of Riemann integrable is Riemann integrable



      any hints/solution







      real-analysis riemann-integration function-and-relation-composition






      share|cite|improve this question















      share|cite|improve this question













      share|cite|improve this question




      share|cite|improve this question








      edited Jan 19 at 4:00









      Martin Sleziak

      44.7k9117272




      44.7k9117272










      asked Jan 12 at 13:29









      jasminejasmine

      1,701417




      1,701417




      closed as off-topic by RRL, A. Pongrácz, Cesareo, metamorphy, José Carlos Santos Jan 19 at 17:27


      This question appears to be off-topic. The users who voted to close gave this specific reason:


      • "This question is missing context or other details: Please provide additional context, which ideally explains why the question is relevant to you and our community. Some forms of context include: background and motivation, relevant definitions, source, possible strategies, your current progress, why the question is interesting or important, etc." – RRL, A. Pongrácz, Cesareo, metamorphy, José Carlos Santos

      If this question can be reworded to fit the rules in the help center, please edit the question.







      closed as off-topic by RRL, A. Pongrácz, Cesareo, metamorphy, José Carlos Santos Jan 19 at 17:27


      This question appears to be off-topic. The users who voted to close gave this specific reason:


      • "This question is missing context or other details: Please provide additional context, which ideally explains why the question is relevant to you and our community. Some forms of context include: background and motivation, relevant definitions, source, possible strategies, your current progress, why the question is interesting or important, etc." – RRL, A. Pongrácz, Cesareo, metamorphy, José Carlos Santos

      If this question can be reworded to fit the rules in the help center, please edit the question.






















          3 Answers
          3






          active

          oldest

          votes


















          1












          $begingroup$


          beacuse composition of reimann integrable is reimann integrable




          That is not true, consider, for example, a composition $g cdot f $ on [1; 2], where $f$ is Riemann function and $g$ is $|sgn|$






          share|cite|improve this answer









          $endgroup$













          • $begingroup$
            You get not integrable Dirichlet function. This famous functions might help you answering your own question
            $endgroup$
            – Anton Zagrivin
            Jan 12 at 13:55



















          1












          $begingroup$

          Not an answer, but a substantial hint:



          You write "[both are] reimann integrable beacuse composition of reimann integrable is reimann integrable".



          Perhaps you can make that statement a bit more explicit. Do you mean to say




          1. that if $f circ g$ is defined, and $g$ is Riemann integrable, then so is $f circ g$?


          2. that if $f circ g$ is defined, and $f$ is Riemann integrable, then so is $f circ g$?


          3. that if $f circ g$ is defined, and $f$ and $g$ are both Riemann integrable, then so is $f circ g$?



          The first two claims are false.



          If you meant the third one, then to apply it to your particular problem, you need to establish that $f$ and $g$ are in fact Riemann integrable (which isn't true, but I'll leave you to figure out whether one or both are non-integrable).



          Of course, even if one is not integrable, it's possible that both compositions are --- the theorem in item 3 is not an "if and only if" theorem.



          As a general principle, it's a good idea, when you're confused, to write down all the facts you're using in their complete form (as I've done above), and then check that they are actually facts. :)






          share|cite|improve this answer









          $endgroup$





















            0












            $begingroup$

            As the other answers have pointed your argument is wrong. In any case, you can calculate explicitly both compositions. For example:



            $$xin[0,1]implies f(x)inBbb Qimplies g(f(x)) = 1;$$



            $$xinBbb Qimplies f(g(x)) = f(1) = 1;$$



            $$xnotinBbb Qimplies f(g(x)) = f(0) = cdots$$






            share|cite|improve this answer









            $endgroup$




















              3 Answers
              3






              active

              oldest

              votes








              3 Answers
              3






              active

              oldest

              votes









              active

              oldest

              votes






              active

              oldest

              votes









              1












              $begingroup$


              beacuse composition of reimann integrable is reimann integrable




              That is not true, consider, for example, a composition $g cdot f $ on [1; 2], where $f$ is Riemann function and $g$ is $|sgn|$






              share|cite|improve this answer









              $endgroup$













              • $begingroup$
                You get not integrable Dirichlet function. This famous functions might help you answering your own question
                $endgroup$
                – Anton Zagrivin
                Jan 12 at 13:55
















              1












              $begingroup$


              beacuse composition of reimann integrable is reimann integrable




              That is not true, consider, for example, a composition $g cdot f $ on [1; 2], where $f$ is Riemann function and $g$ is $|sgn|$






              share|cite|improve this answer









              $endgroup$













              • $begingroup$
                You get not integrable Dirichlet function. This famous functions might help you answering your own question
                $endgroup$
                – Anton Zagrivin
                Jan 12 at 13:55














              1












              1








              1





              $begingroup$


              beacuse composition of reimann integrable is reimann integrable




              That is not true, consider, for example, a composition $g cdot f $ on [1; 2], where $f$ is Riemann function and $g$ is $|sgn|$






              share|cite|improve this answer









              $endgroup$




              beacuse composition of reimann integrable is reimann integrable




              That is not true, consider, for example, a composition $g cdot f $ on [1; 2], where $f$ is Riemann function and $g$ is $|sgn|$







              share|cite|improve this answer












              share|cite|improve this answer



              share|cite|improve this answer










              answered Jan 12 at 13:52









              Anton ZagrivinAnton Zagrivin

              1648




              1648












              • $begingroup$
                You get not integrable Dirichlet function. This famous functions might help you answering your own question
                $endgroup$
                – Anton Zagrivin
                Jan 12 at 13:55


















              • $begingroup$
                You get not integrable Dirichlet function. This famous functions might help you answering your own question
                $endgroup$
                – Anton Zagrivin
                Jan 12 at 13:55
















              $begingroup$
              You get not integrable Dirichlet function. This famous functions might help you answering your own question
              $endgroup$
              – Anton Zagrivin
              Jan 12 at 13:55




              $begingroup$
              You get not integrable Dirichlet function. This famous functions might help you answering your own question
              $endgroup$
              – Anton Zagrivin
              Jan 12 at 13:55











              1












              $begingroup$

              Not an answer, but a substantial hint:



              You write "[both are] reimann integrable beacuse composition of reimann integrable is reimann integrable".



              Perhaps you can make that statement a bit more explicit. Do you mean to say




              1. that if $f circ g$ is defined, and $g$ is Riemann integrable, then so is $f circ g$?


              2. that if $f circ g$ is defined, and $f$ is Riemann integrable, then so is $f circ g$?


              3. that if $f circ g$ is defined, and $f$ and $g$ are both Riemann integrable, then so is $f circ g$?



              The first two claims are false.



              If you meant the third one, then to apply it to your particular problem, you need to establish that $f$ and $g$ are in fact Riemann integrable (which isn't true, but I'll leave you to figure out whether one or both are non-integrable).



              Of course, even if one is not integrable, it's possible that both compositions are --- the theorem in item 3 is not an "if and only if" theorem.



              As a general principle, it's a good idea, when you're confused, to write down all the facts you're using in their complete form (as I've done above), and then check that they are actually facts. :)






              share|cite|improve this answer









              $endgroup$


















                1












                $begingroup$

                Not an answer, but a substantial hint:



                You write "[both are] reimann integrable beacuse composition of reimann integrable is reimann integrable".



                Perhaps you can make that statement a bit more explicit. Do you mean to say




                1. that if $f circ g$ is defined, and $g$ is Riemann integrable, then so is $f circ g$?


                2. that if $f circ g$ is defined, and $f$ is Riemann integrable, then so is $f circ g$?


                3. that if $f circ g$ is defined, and $f$ and $g$ are both Riemann integrable, then so is $f circ g$?



                The first two claims are false.



                If you meant the third one, then to apply it to your particular problem, you need to establish that $f$ and $g$ are in fact Riemann integrable (which isn't true, but I'll leave you to figure out whether one or both are non-integrable).



                Of course, even if one is not integrable, it's possible that both compositions are --- the theorem in item 3 is not an "if and only if" theorem.



                As a general principle, it's a good idea, when you're confused, to write down all the facts you're using in their complete form (as I've done above), and then check that they are actually facts. :)






                share|cite|improve this answer









                $endgroup$
















                  1












                  1








                  1





                  $begingroup$

                  Not an answer, but a substantial hint:



                  You write "[both are] reimann integrable beacuse composition of reimann integrable is reimann integrable".



                  Perhaps you can make that statement a bit more explicit. Do you mean to say




                  1. that if $f circ g$ is defined, and $g$ is Riemann integrable, then so is $f circ g$?


                  2. that if $f circ g$ is defined, and $f$ is Riemann integrable, then so is $f circ g$?


                  3. that if $f circ g$ is defined, and $f$ and $g$ are both Riemann integrable, then so is $f circ g$?



                  The first two claims are false.



                  If you meant the third one, then to apply it to your particular problem, you need to establish that $f$ and $g$ are in fact Riemann integrable (which isn't true, but I'll leave you to figure out whether one or both are non-integrable).



                  Of course, even if one is not integrable, it's possible that both compositions are --- the theorem in item 3 is not an "if and only if" theorem.



                  As a general principle, it's a good idea, when you're confused, to write down all the facts you're using in their complete form (as I've done above), and then check that they are actually facts. :)






                  share|cite|improve this answer









                  $endgroup$



                  Not an answer, but a substantial hint:



                  You write "[both are] reimann integrable beacuse composition of reimann integrable is reimann integrable".



                  Perhaps you can make that statement a bit more explicit. Do you mean to say




                  1. that if $f circ g$ is defined, and $g$ is Riemann integrable, then so is $f circ g$?


                  2. that if $f circ g$ is defined, and $f$ is Riemann integrable, then so is $f circ g$?


                  3. that if $f circ g$ is defined, and $f$ and $g$ are both Riemann integrable, then so is $f circ g$?



                  The first two claims are false.



                  If you meant the third one, then to apply it to your particular problem, you need to establish that $f$ and $g$ are in fact Riemann integrable (which isn't true, but I'll leave you to figure out whether one or both are non-integrable).



                  Of course, even if one is not integrable, it's possible that both compositions are --- the theorem in item 3 is not an "if and only if" theorem.



                  As a general principle, it's a good idea, when you're confused, to write down all the facts you're using in their complete form (as I've done above), and then check that they are actually facts. :)







                  share|cite|improve this answer












                  share|cite|improve this answer



                  share|cite|improve this answer










                  answered Jan 12 at 13:56









                  John HughesJohn Hughes

                  63.2k24090




                  63.2k24090























                      0












                      $begingroup$

                      As the other answers have pointed your argument is wrong. In any case, you can calculate explicitly both compositions. For example:



                      $$xin[0,1]implies f(x)inBbb Qimplies g(f(x)) = 1;$$



                      $$xinBbb Qimplies f(g(x)) = f(1) = 1;$$



                      $$xnotinBbb Qimplies f(g(x)) = f(0) = cdots$$






                      share|cite|improve this answer









                      $endgroup$


















                        0












                        $begingroup$

                        As the other answers have pointed your argument is wrong. In any case, you can calculate explicitly both compositions. For example:



                        $$xin[0,1]implies f(x)inBbb Qimplies g(f(x)) = 1;$$



                        $$xinBbb Qimplies f(g(x)) = f(1) = 1;$$



                        $$xnotinBbb Qimplies f(g(x)) = f(0) = cdots$$






                        share|cite|improve this answer









                        $endgroup$
















                          0












                          0








                          0





                          $begingroup$

                          As the other answers have pointed your argument is wrong. In any case, you can calculate explicitly both compositions. For example:



                          $$xin[0,1]implies f(x)inBbb Qimplies g(f(x)) = 1;$$



                          $$xinBbb Qimplies f(g(x)) = f(1) = 1;$$



                          $$xnotinBbb Qimplies f(g(x)) = f(0) = cdots$$






                          share|cite|improve this answer









                          $endgroup$



                          As the other answers have pointed your argument is wrong. In any case, you can calculate explicitly both compositions. For example:



                          $$xin[0,1]implies f(x)inBbb Qimplies g(f(x)) = 1;$$



                          $$xinBbb Qimplies f(g(x)) = f(1) = 1;$$



                          $$xnotinBbb Qimplies f(g(x)) = f(0) = cdots$$







                          share|cite|improve this answer












                          share|cite|improve this answer



                          share|cite|improve this answer










                          answered Jan 18 at 19:45









                          Martín-Blas Pérez PinillaMartín-Blas Pérez Pinilla

                          34.2k42871




                          34.2k42871















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