The measure of a sequence of open sets












0














Another fun qualifying exam practice question!



Suppose $E$ is a given set and $O_n$ is the open set defined as $O_n = left{x: operatorname{dist}(x,E) < frac1nright}$



a) Show that if $E$ is compact then $m(E) = lim_{n to infty} m(O_n)$



What I have so far:
Define $B_k = bigcap^k_{i=0}O_n = O_k$



Then $B_{k+1} subseteq B_k$



Also $lim_{n rightarrow infty}B_k = bigcap^infty_{i=0}O_n = E$
(Since $E$ is closed and bounded? I'm not really sure why this is true!)



So $B_k$ converges downward to $E$. Since measures are monotone, $m(B_k)$ converges downward to $m(E)$



So $lim_{k rightarrow infty}m(B_k)
=lim_{k rightarrow infty}m(bigcap^k_{n=1}O_n)
=lim_{k rightarrow infty}m(O_k)=m(E)$



Basically I'm wondering how compactness plays into this argument.



b) Show that the conclusion may be false for $E$ closed and unbounded or open and bounded.



Since I'm not sure how compactness plays into the above argument I'm having a hard time coming up with a counter example.










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  • Your argument works if $m(O_1)$ is finite and $bigcap O_i = E$, so...
    – Rigel
    2 days ago


















0














Another fun qualifying exam practice question!



Suppose $E$ is a given set and $O_n$ is the open set defined as $O_n = left{x: operatorname{dist}(x,E) < frac1nright}$



a) Show that if $E$ is compact then $m(E) = lim_{n to infty} m(O_n)$



What I have so far:
Define $B_k = bigcap^k_{i=0}O_n = O_k$



Then $B_{k+1} subseteq B_k$



Also $lim_{n rightarrow infty}B_k = bigcap^infty_{i=0}O_n = E$
(Since $E$ is closed and bounded? I'm not really sure why this is true!)



So $B_k$ converges downward to $E$. Since measures are monotone, $m(B_k)$ converges downward to $m(E)$



So $lim_{k rightarrow infty}m(B_k)
=lim_{k rightarrow infty}m(bigcap^k_{n=1}O_n)
=lim_{k rightarrow infty}m(O_k)=m(E)$



Basically I'm wondering how compactness plays into this argument.



b) Show that the conclusion may be false for $E$ closed and unbounded or open and bounded.



Since I'm not sure how compactness plays into the above argument I'm having a hard time coming up with a counter example.










share|cite|improve this question
























  • Your argument works if $m(O_1)$ is finite and $bigcap O_i = E$, so...
    – Rigel
    2 days ago
















0












0








0


1





Another fun qualifying exam practice question!



Suppose $E$ is a given set and $O_n$ is the open set defined as $O_n = left{x: operatorname{dist}(x,E) < frac1nright}$



a) Show that if $E$ is compact then $m(E) = lim_{n to infty} m(O_n)$



What I have so far:
Define $B_k = bigcap^k_{i=0}O_n = O_k$



Then $B_{k+1} subseteq B_k$



Also $lim_{n rightarrow infty}B_k = bigcap^infty_{i=0}O_n = E$
(Since $E$ is closed and bounded? I'm not really sure why this is true!)



So $B_k$ converges downward to $E$. Since measures are monotone, $m(B_k)$ converges downward to $m(E)$



So $lim_{k rightarrow infty}m(B_k)
=lim_{k rightarrow infty}m(bigcap^k_{n=1}O_n)
=lim_{k rightarrow infty}m(O_k)=m(E)$



Basically I'm wondering how compactness plays into this argument.



b) Show that the conclusion may be false for $E$ closed and unbounded or open and bounded.



Since I'm not sure how compactness plays into the above argument I'm having a hard time coming up with a counter example.










share|cite|improve this question















Another fun qualifying exam practice question!



Suppose $E$ is a given set and $O_n$ is the open set defined as $O_n = left{x: operatorname{dist}(x,E) < frac1nright}$



a) Show that if $E$ is compact then $m(E) = lim_{n to infty} m(O_n)$



What I have so far:
Define $B_k = bigcap^k_{i=0}O_n = O_k$



Then $B_{k+1} subseteq B_k$



Also $lim_{n rightarrow infty}B_k = bigcap^infty_{i=0}O_n = E$
(Since $E$ is closed and bounded? I'm not really sure why this is true!)



So $B_k$ converges downward to $E$. Since measures are monotone, $m(B_k)$ converges downward to $m(E)$



So $lim_{k rightarrow infty}m(B_k)
=lim_{k rightarrow infty}m(bigcap^k_{n=1}O_n)
=lim_{k rightarrow infty}m(O_k)=m(E)$



Basically I'm wondering how compactness plays into this argument.



b) Show that the conclusion may be false for $E$ closed and unbounded or open and bounded.



Since I'm not sure how compactness plays into the above argument I'm having a hard time coming up with a counter example.







general-topology measure-theory






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edited 2 days ago









Henrik

6,01792030




6,01792030










asked 2 days ago









Math LadyMath Lady

1196




1196












  • Your argument works if $m(O_1)$ is finite and $bigcap O_i = E$, so...
    – Rigel
    2 days ago




















  • Your argument works if $m(O_1)$ is finite and $bigcap O_i = E$, so...
    – Rigel
    2 days ago


















Your argument works if $m(O_1)$ is finite and $bigcap O_i = E$, so...
– Rigel
2 days ago






Your argument works if $m(O_1)$ is finite and $bigcap O_i = E$, so...
– Rigel
2 days ago












4 Answers
4






active

oldest

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3














If $xinbigcap_{n=1}^{infty}O_n$ then $d(x,E)<frac1n$ for every positive integer $n$ and this can only be true iff $d(x,E)=0$ or equivalently $xinoverline E$.



$E$ is compact hence closed so that $E=overline E$, so we have $E=bigcap_{n=1}^{infty}O_n$.



Actually here we only need that $E$ is closed, but the condition of boundedness comes in to ensure that $m(O_n)<infty$ for some $n$.



Under that extra condition your solution works.



If we would e.g. take $E=mathbb Rtimes{0}subseteqmathbb R^2$ then $m(O_n)=infty$ for every $n$.






share|cite|improve this answer





























    1














    You need closedness for $bigcap_n O_n = E$ to hold: if $x$ lies in the intersection it means that $d(x,E)=0$ which is equivalent to $x in overline{E}$, so $x in E$ if $E$ is closed. So $bigcap_n O_n = overline{E}$ holds in general. We do not need boundedness of $E$ at all, that I can see.
    The continuity argument for $m$ works when we have finite measure for $O_1$ (And hence all $O_n$) and it could fail for infinite measures.



    The $B_k$ are unnecessary as the $O_n$ are already decreasing themselves: $x in O_{n+1}$ or $d(x, E) < frac{1}{n+1}$ trivially implies $d(x,E) < frac{1}{n}$ or $x in O_n$, as $frac{1}{n+1} < frac{1}{n}$, so $O_{n+1} subseteq O_n$. It's the standard way to write a closed set as the intersection of countably many open sets in a metric space.






    share|cite|improve this answer





























      1














      So far none of the answers address part (b) of your question fully, so I will give you two examples below:



      1) To see why being bounded is crucial to the argument, consider $E=mathbb{Z}subsetmathbb{R}$.



      2) To see why being closed is crucial consider an enumeration of the rationals inside the unit interval, say $(q_k)$, and place an open interval on top of each $q_k$ of length $epsiloncdot2^{-k}$ in order to construct your set $E$.






      share|cite|improve this answer








      New contributor




      ItsJustAMeasureBro is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
      Check out our Code of Conduct.


























        0














        I'm assuming you mean that $Esubseteqmathbb{R}$.



        (a) Note that $bigcap_{n=1}^infty O_n={x:d(x,E)=0}$, which is just the closure of $E$, which since $E$ is compact is just $E$ itself. By continuity of Lebesgue measure together with $O_nsupseteq O_{n+1}$ we now have
        $$m(E)=mleft(bigcap_{n=1}^infty O_nright)=lim_{ntoinfty}m(O_n).$$
        (Note that the second equality holds if and only if the measures are finite.)



        (b) For closed and unbounded $E$, take $E=mathbb{N}$. For open and bounded $E$, take the complement of the fat Cantor set in $[0,1]$.



        Good luck with the Quals! That brings back memories.






        share|cite|improve this answer























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          4 Answers
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          active

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          4 Answers
          4






          active

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          active

          oldest

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          3














          If $xinbigcap_{n=1}^{infty}O_n$ then $d(x,E)<frac1n$ for every positive integer $n$ and this can only be true iff $d(x,E)=0$ or equivalently $xinoverline E$.



          $E$ is compact hence closed so that $E=overline E$, so we have $E=bigcap_{n=1}^{infty}O_n$.



          Actually here we only need that $E$ is closed, but the condition of boundedness comes in to ensure that $m(O_n)<infty$ for some $n$.



          Under that extra condition your solution works.



          If we would e.g. take $E=mathbb Rtimes{0}subseteqmathbb R^2$ then $m(O_n)=infty$ for every $n$.






          share|cite|improve this answer


























            3














            If $xinbigcap_{n=1}^{infty}O_n$ then $d(x,E)<frac1n$ for every positive integer $n$ and this can only be true iff $d(x,E)=0$ or equivalently $xinoverline E$.



            $E$ is compact hence closed so that $E=overline E$, so we have $E=bigcap_{n=1}^{infty}O_n$.



            Actually here we only need that $E$ is closed, but the condition of boundedness comes in to ensure that $m(O_n)<infty$ for some $n$.



            Under that extra condition your solution works.



            If we would e.g. take $E=mathbb Rtimes{0}subseteqmathbb R^2$ then $m(O_n)=infty$ for every $n$.






            share|cite|improve this answer
























              3












              3








              3






              If $xinbigcap_{n=1}^{infty}O_n$ then $d(x,E)<frac1n$ for every positive integer $n$ and this can only be true iff $d(x,E)=0$ or equivalently $xinoverline E$.



              $E$ is compact hence closed so that $E=overline E$, so we have $E=bigcap_{n=1}^{infty}O_n$.



              Actually here we only need that $E$ is closed, but the condition of boundedness comes in to ensure that $m(O_n)<infty$ for some $n$.



              Under that extra condition your solution works.



              If we would e.g. take $E=mathbb Rtimes{0}subseteqmathbb R^2$ then $m(O_n)=infty$ for every $n$.






              share|cite|improve this answer












              If $xinbigcap_{n=1}^{infty}O_n$ then $d(x,E)<frac1n$ for every positive integer $n$ and this can only be true iff $d(x,E)=0$ or equivalently $xinoverline E$.



              $E$ is compact hence closed so that $E=overline E$, so we have $E=bigcap_{n=1}^{infty}O_n$.



              Actually here we only need that $E$ is closed, but the condition of boundedness comes in to ensure that $m(O_n)<infty$ for some $n$.



              Under that extra condition your solution works.



              If we would e.g. take $E=mathbb Rtimes{0}subseteqmathbb R^2$ then $m(O_n)=infty$ for every $n$.







              share|cite|improve this answer












              share|cite|improve this answer



              share|cite|improve this answer










              answered 2 days ago









              drhabdrhab

              98.4k544129




              98.4k544129























                  1














                  You need closedness for $bigcap_n O_n = E$ to hold: if $x$ lies in the intersection it means that $d(x,E)=0$ which is equivalent to $x in overline{E}$, so $x in E$ if $E$ is closed. So $bigcap_n O_n = overline{E}$ holds in general. We do not need boundedness of $E$ at all, that I can see.
                  The continuity argument for $m$ works when we have finite measure for $O_1$ (And hence all $O_n$) and it could fail for infinite measures.



                  The $B_k$ are unnecessary as the $O_n$ are already decreasing themselves: $x in O_{n+1}$ or $d(x, E) < frac{1}{n+1}$ trivially implies $d(x,E) < frac{1}{n}$ or $x in O_n$, as $frac{1}{n+1} < frac{1}{n}$, so $O_{n+1} subseteq O_n$. It's the standard way to write a closed set as the intersection of countably many open sets in a metric space.






                  share|cite|improve this answer


























                    1














                    You need closedness for $bigcap_n O_n = E$ to hold: if $x$ lies in the intersection it means that $d(x,E)=0$ which is equivalent to $x in overline{E}$, so $x in E$ if $E$ is closed. So $bigcap_n O_n = overline{E}$ holds in general. We do not need boundedness of $E$ at all, that I can see.
                    The continuity argument for $m$ works when we have finite measure for $O_1$ (And hence all $O_n$) and it could fail for infinite measures.



                    The $B_k$ are unnecessary as the $O_n$ are already decreasing themselves: $x in O_{n+1}$ or $d(x, E) < frac{1}{n+1}$ trivially implies $d(x,E) < frac{1}{n}$ or $x in O_n$, as $frac{1}{n+1} < frac{1}{n}$, so $O_{n+1} subseteq O_n$. It's the standard way to write a closed set as the intersection of countably many open sets in a metric space.






                    share|cite|improve this answer
























                      1












                      1








                      1






                      You need closedness for $bigcap_n O_n = E$ to hold: if $x$ lies in the intersection it means that $d(x,E)=0$ which is equivalent to $x in overline{E}$, so $x in E$ if $E$ is closed. So $bigcap_n O_n = overline{E}$ holds in general. We do not need boundedness of $E$ at all, that I can see.
                      The continuity argument for $m$ works when we have finite measure for $O_1$ (And hence all $O_n$) and it could fail for infinite measures.



                      The $B_k$ are unnecessary as the $O_n$ are already decreasing themselves: $x in O_{n+1}$ or $d(x, E) < frac{1}{n+1}$ trivially implies $d(x,E) < frac{1}{n}$ or $x in O_n$, as $frac{1}{n+1} < frac{1}{n}$, so $O_{n+1} subseteq O_n$. It's the standard way to write a closed set as the intersection of countably many open sets in a metric space.






                      share|cite|improve this answer












                      You need closedness for $bigcap_n O_n = E$ to hold: if $x$ lies in the intersection it means that $d(x,E)=0$ which is equivalent to $x in overline{E}$, so $x in E$ if $E$ is closed. So $bigcap_n O_n = overline{E}$ holds in general. We do not need boundedness of $E$ at all, that I can see.
                      The continuity argument for $m$ works when we have finite measure for $O_1$ (And hence all $O_n$) and it could fail for infinite measures.



                      The $B_k$ are unnecessary as the $O_n$ are already decreasing themselves: $x in O_{n+1}$ or $d(x, E) < frac{1}{n+1}$ trivially implies $d(x,E) < frac{1}{n}$ or $x in O_n$, as $frac{1}{n+1} < frac{1}{n}$, so $O_{n+1} subseteq O_n$. It's the standard way to write a closed set as the intersection of countably many open sets in a metric space.







                      share|cite|improve this answer












                      share|cite|improve this answer



                      share|cite|improve this answer










                      answered 2 days ago









                      Henno BrandsmaHenno Brandsma

                      105k347114




                      105k347114























                          1














                          So far none of the answers address part (b) of your question fully, so I will give you two examples below:



                          1) To see why being bounded is crucial to the argument, consider $E=mathbb{Z}subsetmathbb{R}$.



                          2) To see why being closed is crucial consider an enumeration of the rationals inside the unit interval, say $(q_k)$, and place an open interval on top of each $q_k$ of length $epsiloncdot2^{-k}$ in order to construct your set $E$.






                          share|cite|improve this answer








                          New contributor




                          ItsJustAMeasureBro is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                          Check out our Code of Conduct.























                            1














                            So far none of the answers address part (b) of your question fully, so I will give you two examples below:



                            1) To see why being bounded is crucial to the argument, consider $E=mathbb{Z}subsetmathbb{R}$.



                            2) To see why being closed is crucial consider an enumeration of the rationals inside the unit interval, say $(q_k)$, and place an open interval on top of each $q_k$ of length $epsiloncdot2^{-k}$ in order to construct your set $E$.






                            share|cite|improve this answer








                            New contributor




                            ItsJustAMeasureBro is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                            Check out our Code of Conduct.





















                              1












                              1








                              1






                              So far none of the answers address part (b) of your question fully, so I will give you two examples below:



                              1) To see why being bounded is crucial to the argument, consider $E=mathbb{Z}subsetmathbb{R}$.



                              2) To see why being closed is crucial consider an enumeration of the rationals inside the unit interval, say $(q_k)$, and place an open interval on top of each $q_k$ of length $epsiloncdot2^{-k}$ in order to construct your set $E$.






                              share|cite|improve this answer








                              New contributor




                              ItsJustAMeasureBro is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                              Check out our Code of Conduct.









                              So far none of the answers address part (b) of your question fully, so I will give you two examples below:



                              1) To see why being bounded is crucial to the argument, consider $E=mathbb{Z}subsetmathbb{R}$.



                              2) To see why being closed is crucial consider an enumeration of the rationals inside the unit interval, say $(q_k)$, and place an open interval on top of each $q_k$ of length $epsiloncdot2^{-k}$ in order to construct your set $E$.







                              share|cite|improve this answer








                              New contributor




                              ItsJustAMeasureBro is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                              Check out our Code of Conduct.









                              share|cite|improve this answer



                              share|cite|improve this answer






                              New contributor




                              ItsJustAMeasureBro is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                              Check out our Code of Conduct.









                              answered 2 days ago









                              ItsJustAMeasureBroItsJustAMeasureBro

                              362




                              362




                              New contributor




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                              New contributor





                              ItsJustAMeasureBro is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                              Check out our Code of Conduct.






                              ItsJustAMeasureBro is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
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                                  0














                                  I'm assuming you mean that $Esubseteqmathbb{R}$.



                                  (a) Note that $bigcap_{n=1}^infty O_n={x:d(x,E)=0}$, which is just the closure of $E$, which since $E$ is compact is just $E$ itself. By continuity of Lebesgue measure together with $O_nsupseteq O_{n+1}$ we now have
                                  $$m(E)=mleft(bigcap_{n=1}^infty O_nright)=lim_{ntoinfty}m(O_n).$$
                                  (Note that the second equality holds if and only if the measures are finite.)



                                  (b) For closed and unbounded $E$, take $E=mathbb{N}$. For open and bounded $E$, take the complement of the fat Cantor set in $[0,1]$.



                                  Good luck with the Quals! That brings back memories.






                                  share|cite|improve this answer




























                                    0














                                    I'm assuming you mean that $Esubseteqmathbb{R}$.



                                    (a) Note that $bigcap_{n=1}^infty O_n={x:d(x,E)=0}$, which is just the closure of $E$, which since $E$ is compact is just $E$ itself. By continuity of Lebesgue measure together with $O_nsupseteq O_{n+1}$ we now have
                                    $$m(E)=mleft(bigcap_{n=1}^infty O_nright)=lim_{ntoinfty}m(O_n).$$
                                    (Note that the second equality holds if and only if the measures are finite.)



                                    (b) For closed and unbounded $E$, take $E=mathbb{N}$. For open and bounded $E$, take the complement of the fat Cantor set in $[0,1]$.



                                    Good luck with the Quals! That brings back memories.






                                    share|cite|improve this answer


























                                      0












                                      0








                                      0






                                      I'm assuming you mean that $Esubseteqmathbb{R}$.



                                      (a) Note that $bigcap_{n=1}^infty O_n={x:d(x,E)=0}$, which is just the closure of $E$, which since $E$ is compact is just $E$ itself. By continuity of Lebesgue measure together with $O_nsupseteq O_{n+1}$ we now have
                                      $$m(E)=mleft(bigcap_{n=1}^infty O_nright)=lim_{ntoinfty}m(O_n).$$
                                      (Note that the second equality holds if and only if the measures are finite.)



                                      (b) For closed and unbounded $E$, take $E=mathbb{N}$. For open and bounded $E$, take the complement of the fat Cantor set in $[0,1]$.



                                      Good luck with the Quals! That brings back memories.






                                      share|cite|improve this answer














                                      I'm assuming you mean that $Esubseteqmathbb{R}$.



                                      (a) Note that $bigcap_{n=1}^infty O_n={x:d(x,E)=0}$, which is just the closure of $E$, which since $E$ is compact is just $E$ itself. By continuity of Lebesgue measure together with $O_nsupseteq O_{n+1}$ we now have
                                      $$m(E)=mleft(bigcap_{n=1}^infty O_nright)=lim_{ntoinfty}m(O_n).$$
                                      (Note that the second equality holds if and only if the measures are finite.)



                                      (b) For closed and unbounded $E$, take $E=mathbb{N}$. For open and bounded $E$, take the complement of the fat Cantor set in $[0,1]$.



                                      Good luck with the Quals! That brings back memories.







                                      share|cite|improve this answer














                                      share|cite|improve this answer



                                      share|cite|improve this answer








                                      edited 2 days ago

























                                      answered 2 days ago









                                      Ben WBen W

                                      1,995615




                                      1,995615






























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