Finding value of $c$ such that the range of the rational function $f(x) = frac{x^2 + x + c}{x^2 + 2x + c}$...
This question already has an answer here:
Finding the value of $c$
4 answers
I am comfortable when I am asked to calculate the range of a rational function, but how do we do the reverse? I came across this problem.
If $$f(x)= frac{x^2 + x + c}{x^2 + 2x + c}$$ then find the value of $c$ for which the range of $f(x)$ does not contain $[-1, -frac{1}{3}]$.
functions
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marked as duplicate by Saad, Abcd, A. Pongrácz, Holo, amWhy 14 hours ago
This question has been asked before and already has an answer. If those answers do not fully address your question, please ask a new question.
|
show 1 more comment
This question already has an answer here:
Finding the value of $c$
4 answers
I am comfortable when I am asked to calculate the range of a rational function, but how do we do the reverse? I came across this problem.
If $$f(x)= frac{x^2 + x + c}{x^2 + 2x + c}$$ then find the value of $c$ for which the range of $f(x)$ does not contain $[-1, -frac{1}{3}]$.
functions
New contributor
marked as duplicate by Saad, Abcd, A. Pongrácz, Holo, amWhy 14 hours ago
This question has been asked before and already has an answer. If those answers do not fully address your question, please ask a new question.
Find the range of this function as you usually would. You should get an answer in terms of $c$. Then match this to the requirement to fix $c$.
– John Doe
2 days ago
See math.stackexchange.com/questions/2759764/finding-the-value-of-c
– lab bhattacharjee
2 days ago
and math.stackexchange.com/questions/1414298/…
– lab bhattacharjee
2 days ago
I let the function equal to the and got a quadratic in x. I used the fact that x is real and thus set the discriminant greater than or equal to zero. I then got a quadratic inequality in y and c. This inequality should be broken when y is between -1 and -1/3. So I graphed the new function of y and checked where the inequality was broken and calculated the corresponding value of c.
– Swap Nayak
2 days ago
But it gives the wrong answer. I guess it is because there can be multiple graphs where the inequality is broken and so multiple values of c.
– Swap Nayak
2 days ago
|
show 1 more comment
This question already has an answer here:
Finding the value of $c$
4 answers
I am comfortable when I am asked to calculate the range of a rational function, but how do we do the reverse? I came across this problem.
If $$f(x)= frac{x^2 + x + c}{x^2 + 2x + c}$$ then find the value of $c$ for which the range of $f(x)$ does not contain $[-1, -frac{1}{3}]$.
functions
New contributor
This question already has an answer here:
Finding the value of $c$
4 answers
I am comfortable when I am asked to calculate the range of a rational function, but how do we do the reverse? I came across this problem.
If $$f(x)= frac{x^2 + x + c}{x^2 + 2x + c}$$ then find the value of $c$ for which the range of $f(x)$ does not contain $[-1, -frac{1}{3}]$.
This question already has an answer here:
Finding the value of $c$
4 answers
functions
functions
New contributor
New contributor
edited 2 days ago
N. F. Taussig
43.6k93355
43.6k93355
New contributor
asked 2 days ago
Swap NayakSwap Nayak
22
22
New contributor
New contributor
marked as duplicate by Saad, Abcd, A. Pongrácz, Holo, amWhy 14 hours ago
This question has been asked before and already has an answer. If those answers do not fully address your question, please ask a new question.
marked as duplicate by Saad, Abcd, A. Pongrácz, Holo, amWhy 14 hours ago
This question has been asked before and already has an answer. If those answers do not fully address your question, please ask a new question.
Find the range of this function as you usually would. You should get an answer in terms of $c$. Then match this to the requirement to fix $c$.
– John Doe
2 days ago
See math.stackexchange.com/questions/2759764/finding-the-value-of-c
– lab bhattacharjee
2 days ago
and math.stackexchange.com/questions/1414298/…
– lab bhattacharjee
2 days ago
I let the function equal to the and got a quadratic in x. I used the fact that x is real and thus set the discriminant greater than or equal to zero. I then got a quadratic inequality in y and c. This inequality should be broken when y is between -1 and -1/3. So I graphed the new function of y and checked where the inequality was broken and calculated the corresponding value of c.
– Swap Nayak
2 days ago
But it gives the wrong answer. I guess it is because there can be multiple graphs where the inequality is broken and so multiple values of c.
– Swap Nayak
2 days ago
|
show 1 more comment
Find the range of this function as you usually would. You should get an answer in terms of $c$. Then match this to the requirement to fix $c$.
– John Doe
2 days ago
See math.stackexchange.com/questions/2759764/finding-the-value-of-c
– lab bhattacharjee
2 days ago
and math.stackexchange.com/questions/1414298/…
– lab bhattacharjee
2 days ago
I let the function equal to the and got a quadratic in x. I used the fact that x is real and thus set the discriminant greater than or equal to zero. I then got a quadratic inequality in y and c. This inequality should be broken when y is between -1 and -1/3. So I graphed the new function of y and checked where the inequality was broken and calculated the corresponding value of c.
– Swap Nayak
2 days ago
But it gives the wrong answer. I guess it is because there can be multiple graphs where the inequality is broken and so multiple values of c.
– Swap Nayak
2 days ago
Find the range of this function as you usually would. You should get an answer in terms of $c$. Then match this to the requirement to fix $c$.
– John Doe
2 days ago
Find the range of this function as you usually would. You should get an answer in terms of $c$. Then match this to the requirement to fix $c$.
– John Doe
2 days ago
See math.stackexchange.com/questions/2759764/finding-the-value-of-c
– lab bhattacharjee
2 days ago
See math.stackexchange.com/questions/2759764/finding-the-value-of-c
– lab bhattacharjee
2 days ago
and math.stackexchange.com/questions/1414298/…
– lab bhattacharjee
2 days ago
and math.stackexchange.com/questions/1414298/…
– lab bhattacharjee
2 days ago
I let the function equal to the and got a quadratic in x. I used the fact that x is real and thus set the discriminant greater than or equal to zero. I then got a quadratic inequality in y and c. This inequality should be broken when y is between -1 and -1/3. So I graphed the new function of y and checked where the inequality was broken and calculated the corresponding value of c.
– Swap Nayak
2 days ago
I let the function equal to the and got a quadratic in x. I used the fact that x is real and thus set the discriminant greater than or equal to zero. I then got a quadratic inequality in y and c. This inequality should be broken when y is between -1 and -1/3. So I graphed the new function of y and checked where the inequality was broken and calculated the corresponding value of c.
– Swap Nayak
2 days ago
But it gives the wrong answer. I guess it is because there can be multiple graphs where the inequality is broken and so multiple values of c.
– Swap Nayak
2 days ago
But it gives the wrong answer. I guess it is because there can be multiple graphs where the inequality is broken and so multiple values of c.
– Swap Nayak
2 days ago
|
show 1 more comment
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
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We should probably proceed by cases, as $f$ will have a vertical asymptote and a hole for $c=0,$ a single vertical asymptote and no holes for $c=1,$ neither vertical asymptotes nor holes when $c>1,$ and otherwise has two vertical asymptotes and no holes. In all cases, $f$ has $y=1$ as its horizontal asymptote, meaning that $lim_{|x|toinfty}f(x)=1.$
In the $c>1$ case, differentiating yields $$f'(x)=frac{x^2-c}{(x^2+2x+c)^2},$$ which is negative in the interval $left(-sqrt{c},sqrt{c}right),$ zero at $x=pmsqrt{c},$ and positive otherwise. Consequently, $f$ achieves a global maximum at $x=-sqrt{c}$ and a global minimum at $x=sqrt{c}.$ The minimum is the one we care about, though, since we'll require it to be greater than $-1.$ So, let's consider $$-1<fleft(sqrt cright)=frac{c+sqrt c+c}{c+2sqrt c+c}=frac{2c+sqrt c}{2c+2sqrt c}=frac{2sqrt c+1}{2sqrt c+2}.$$ But this is trivially true, since $c>1$ implies that both $2sqrt c+1$ and $2sqrt c+2$ are positive, so that $f(c)>0>-1,$ as desired.
I leave the $c=0$ and $c=1$ cases to you.
If $c<1$ and $cne 0,$ we know that $x^2+2x+c=(x-j)(x-k)$ for some distinct real numbers $j$ and $k.$ We also know that $x^2+x+c$ takes on a non-zero value at each of $j,k.$ Without loss of generality, suppose that $j<k.$ Now, at $x=j,$ the denominator changes signs, while the numerator does not, meaning that we have either $$lim_{xnearrow j}f(x)=-inftytext{ and }lim_{xsearrow j}f(x)=+inftytag{1}$$ or $$lim_{xnearrow j}f(x)=+inftytext{ and }lim_{xsearrow j}f(x)=-infty.tag{2}$$ Likewise, we have either $$lim_{xnearrow k}f(x)=-inftytext{ and }lim_{xsearrow k}f(x)=+inftytag{3}$$ or $$lim_{xnearrow k}f(x)=+inftytext{ and }lim_{xsearrow k}f(x)=-infty.tag{4}$$ If $(1)$ holds, then since $f$ is continuous on $(-infty,j)$ and since $lim_{xto-infty}f(x)=1$ and $lim_{xnearrow j}f(x)=-infty,$ then $(-infty,1)$ is a subset of the range of $f,$ and so $left[-1,-frac13right]$ is, too. If $(4)$ holds, then by continuity of $f$ on $(k,infty),$ we similarly have that $left[-1,-frac13right]$ is a subset of the range of $f.$ However, if $(2)$ and $(3)$ both hold, it isn't clear from what we've discussed so far whether $left[-1,-frac13right]$ is a subset of the range of $f$ or not, so let's consider further when these different possibilities may occur.
The only way for $(1)$ to hold is if the numerator is negative at $x=j,$ meaning that $j$ must lie between the two zeroes of $x^2+x+c.$ In other words, by the quadratic formula, we have the following (equivalent) inequalities: $$frac{-1-sqrt{1^2-4c}}2<frac{-2-sqrt{2^2-4c}}2<frac{-1+sqrt{1^2-4c}}2\-1-sqrt{1-4c}<-2-sqrt{4-4c}<-1+sqrt{1-4c}\-sqrt{1-4c}<-1-sqrt{4-4c}<sqrt{1-4c}\left(-1-sqrt{4-4c}right)^2<1-4c\1+2sqrt{4-4c}+4-4c<1-4c\2sqrt{4-4c}+4<0.$$ Since this is impossible, then $(1)$ cannot hold, and so $(2)$ must hold.
Similarly, $(4)$ only holds if the numerator is negative at $x=k,$ which happens if and only if $$frac{-1-sqrt{1^2-4c}}2<frac{-2+sqrt{2^2-4c}}2<frac{-1+sqrt{1^2-4c}}2\-1-sqrt{1-4c}<-2+sqrt{4-4c}<-1+sqrt{1-4c}\-sqrt{1-4c}<-1+sqrt{4-4c}<sqrt{1-4c}\left(-1+sqrt{4-4c}right)^2<1-4c\1-2sqrt{4-4c}+4-4c<1-4c\-2sqrt{4-4c}+4<0\2<sqrt{4-4c}\4<4-4c\c<0.$$ Thus, if $c<0,$ then $left[-1,-frac13right]$ is a subset of the range of $f.$
It remains only to consider $0<c<1,$ in which case $(2)$ and $(3)$ will hold, so that $f$ achieves a local maximum in the interval $(j,k).$ Observe that $$1-c<1\sqrt{1-c}<1\2sqrt{1-c}<2\sqrt{4-4c}<2\-2+sqrt{4-4c}<0\frac{-2+sqrt{4-4c}}2<0\k<0,$$ meaning that $f$ achieves its local maximum at $x=-sqrt{c},$ and a local minimum at $x=sqrt{c}$ by the first derivative test. Since $f$ is increasing and continuous on $(-infty,j),$ and since $lim_{xto-infty}f(x)=1,$ then $f$ is positive on $(-infty,j).$ Further, since $fbigl(sqrt cbigr)$ is positive by prior work, then since $f$'s minimum value in $(k,infty)$ occurs at $x=sqrt c,$ then we have that $f$ is positive on $(k,infty).$ Thus, we need only ensure that $fleft(-sqrt cright)<-frac13.$ Since $0<c<1,$ then $c<sqrt c,$ and so the following are equivalent: $$fleft(-sqrt cright)<-frac13\-3fleft(-sqrt cright)>1\-3cdotfrac{c-sqrt c+c}{c-2sqrt c+c}>1\-3cdotfrac{2c-sqrt c}{2c-2sqrt c}>1\-3left(2c-sqrt cright)<2c-2sqrt c\-6c+3sqrt c<2c-2sqrt c\5sqrt c<8c\frac58<sqrt c\frac{25}{64}<c.$$
Putting it all together, we find that the range of $f$ does not contain the interval in question if and only if $c>frac{25}{64}.$
but when $c=frac12>frac{25}{64}$, it does contain the given interval, see the graph.
– farruhota
2 days ago
1
@farruhota: Incorrect. It contains points of the interval (as elements), but does not contain the interval, itself (as a subset). See the graph, yourself, and you'll find that the range is a subset of $left(-infty,-sqrt2right]cup[0,+infty),$ which does not (for example) contain $-frac13.$
– Cameron Buie
2 days ago
Agreed +1, there is a subtle difference between "completely" and "partially". In that case I must set my condition as yours $f(-sqrt{c})<-frac13$ to get the same interval for $c$ as yours. Thank you.
– farruhota
2 days ago
Even I got the same answer c>25/64. But it's wrong putting c as 26/64 f(x) is lying in the interval.
– Swap Nayak
15 mins ago
add a comment |
Refer to the Desmos graph.
Find the local maximum:
$$begin{align}f'(x)&= left(frac{x^2 + x + c}{x^2 + 2x + c}right)'=\
&=frac{(2x+1)(x^2+2x+c)-(x^2+x+c)(2x+2)}{(x^2 + 2x + c)^2}=0 Rightarrow \
x^2&=c Rightarrow x=pm sqrt{c}end{align}$$
Note the local maximum occurs for $x=-sqrt{c}$, for which:
$$f(-sqrt{c})=frac{2sqrt{c}-1}{2sqrt{c}-2}<-1 Rightarrow cin left(frac9{16},1right).$$
For $cin [1,+infty)$:
$$f(x)=frac{x^2+x+c}{x^2+2x+c}=1-frac{x}{x^2+2x+c}>0.$$
Hence, when $c>frac9{16}$, the function's range will not contain $[-1,-frac13]$.
add a comment |
The inequality that you got should have been $$g(y,c)=4(1-c)y^2+2(4c-2)y+(1-4c)ge0$$Well, we want this to fail when $y$ is in this range. i.e. for $yin[-1,-1/3]$, $$4(1-c)y^2+2(4c-2)y+(1-4c)<0$$ This means if we plot this with $y$ on the $x$-axis and the value of $g(y)$ on the $y$-axis, then it will be a positive quadratic which dips below the $x$-axis for the range of $x$ values $[-1,-1/3]$. As we vary $c$, the places where this graph cuts the $x$ axis move (i.e. the roots of $g$). Note, when $c=0$, the graph is $$g(y,c=0)=4y^2-4y+1=(2y-1)^2$$which has one repeated root at $y=1/2$. Then as $c$ is increased, the minimum point of this quadratic moves leftward. The point at which $-1/3$ joins the range of values for which $g(-1/3,c)le0$ is when it first becomes a root. For what value of $c$ does this happen?
$$g(-1/3,c)=0impliescdotsimplies c=frac{25}{64}$$As we increase $c$ further, eventually $-1$ also joins this range. $$g(-1,c)=0impliescdotsimplies c=frac9{16}$$
For $c>frac9{16}$, $[-1,-1/3]$ is still not in the range of $f(x)$ - but $c=frac9{16}$ is the first value of $c$ for which this happens.
So the range of $c$ for which no points from the interval $[-1,-1/3]$ are included in the range of $f$ is given by $$bbox[5px,border:2px solid red]{cgefrac9{16}}$$
Meanwhile, the range of $c$ for which at least one point from the interval $[-1,-1/3]$ is missing from the range of $f$ is given by $$bbox[5px,border:2px solid red]{cgefrac{25}{64}}$$
This seems to be trying to find the values of $c$ for which the range of $f$ is disjoint from the interval in question, rather than simply not containing the interval
– Cameron Buie
2 days ago
I assumed the question was asking for the values of $c$ for which the entire interval is not in the range, but I see what you mean - it could easily also mean the range of $c$ for which any point in this interval is not in the range. In this case, this cutoff would be at $c=frac{25}{64}$, which is the point at which the point $y=-1/3$ joins the range of values for which $g(y,c)le0$.
– John Doe
14 hours ago
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3 Answers
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3 Answers
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We should probably proceed by cases, as $f$ will have a vertical asymptote and a hole for $c=0,$ a single vertical asymptote and no holes for $c=1,$ neither vertical asymptotes nor holes when $c>1,$ and otherwise has two vertical asymptotes and no holes. In all cases, $f$ has $y=1$ as its horizontal asymptote, meaning that $lim_{|x|toinfty}f(x)=1.$
In the $c>1$ case, differentiating yields $$f'(x)=frac{x^2-c}{(x^2+2x+c)^2},$$ which is negative in the interval $left(-sqrt{c},sqrt{c}right),$ zero at $x=pmsqrt{c},$ and positive otherwise. Consequently, $f$ achieves a global maximum at $x=-sqrt{c}$ and a global minimum at $x=sqrt{c}.$ The minimum is the one we care about, though, since we'll require it to be greater than $-1.$ So, let's consider $$-1<fleft(sqrt cright)=frac{c+sqrt c+c}{c+2sqrt c+c}=frac{2c+sqrt c}{2c+2sqrt c}=frac{2sqrt c+1}{2sqrt c+2}.$$ But this is trivially true, since $c>1$ implies that both $2sqrt c+1$ and $2sqrt c+2$ are positive, so that $f(c)>0>-1,$ as desired.
I leave the $c=0$ and $c=1$ cases to you.
If $c<1$ and $cne 0,$ we know that $x^2+2x+c=(x-j)(x-k)$ for some distinct real numbers $j$ and $k.$ We also know that $x^2+x+c$ takes on a non-zero value at each of $j,k.$ Without loss of generality, suppose that $j<k.$ Now, at $x=j,$ the denominator changes signs, while the numerator does not, meaning that we have either $$lim_{xnearrow j}f(x)=-inftytext{ and }lim_{xsearrow j}f(x)=+inftytag{1}$$ or $$lim_{xnearrow j}f(x)=+inftytext{ and }lim_{xsearrow j}f(x)=-infty.tag{2}$$ Likewise, we have either $$lim_{xnearrow k}f(x)=-inftytext{ and }lim_{xsearrow k}f(x)=+inftytag{3}$$ or $$lim_{xnearrow k}f(x)=+inftytext{ and }lim_{xsearrow k}f(x)=-infty.tag{4}$$ If $(1)$ holds, then since $f$ is continuous on $(-infty,j)$ and since $lim_{xto-infty}f(x)=1$ and $lim_{xnearrow j}f(x)=-infty,$ then $(-infty,1)$ is a subset of the range of $f,$ and so $left[-1,-frac13right]$ is, too. If $(4)$ holds, then by continuity of $f$ on $(k,infty),$ we similarly have that $left[-1,-frac13right]$ is a subset of the range of $f.$ However, if $(2)$ and $(3)$ both hold, it isn't clear from what we've discussed so far whether $left[-1,-frac13right]$ is a subset of the range of $f$ or not, so let's consider further when these different possibilities may occur.
The only way for $(1)$ to hold is if the numerator is negative at $x=j,$ meaning that $j$ must lie between the two zeroes of $x^2+x+c.$ In other words, by the quadratic formula, we have the following (equivalent) inequalities: $$frac{-1-sqrt{1^2-4c}}2<frac{-2-sqrt{2^2-4c}}2<frac{-1+sqrt{1^2-4c}}2\-1-sqrt{1-4c}<-2-sqrt{4-4c}<-1+sqrt{1-4c}\-sqrt{1-4c}<-1-sqrt{4-4c}<sqrt{1-4c}\left(-1-sqrt{4-4c}right)^2<1-4c\1+2sqrt{4-4c}+4-4c<1-4c\2sqrt{4-4c}+4<0.$$ Since this is impossible, then $(1)$ cannot hold, and so $(2)$ must hold.
Similarly, $(4)$ only holds if the numerator is negative at $x=k,$ which happens if and only if $$frac{-1-sqrt{1^2-4c}}2<frac{-2+sqrt{2^2-4c}}2<frac{-1+sqrt{1^2-4c}}2\-1-sqrt{1-4c}<-2+sqrt{4-4c}<-1+sqrt{1-4c}\-sqrt{1-4c}<-1+sqrt{4-4c}<sqrt{1-4c}\left(-1+sqrt{4-4c}right)^2<1-4c\1-2sqrt{4-4c}+4-4c<1-4c\-2sqrt{4-4c}+4<0\2<sqrt{4-4c}\4<4-4c\c<0.$$ Thus, if $c<0,$ then $left[-1,-frac13right]$ is a subset of the range of $f.$
It remains only to consider $0<c<1,$ in which case $(2)$ and $(3)$ will hold, so that $f$ achieves a local maximum in the interval $(j,k).$ Observe that $$1-c<1\sqrt{1-c}<1\2sqrt{1-c}<2\sqrt{4-4c}<2\-2+sqrt{4-4c}<0\frac{-2+sqrt{4-4c}}2<0\k<0,$$ meaning that $f$ achieves its local maximum at $x=-sqrt{c},$ and a local minimum at $x=sqrt{c}$ by the first derivative test. Since $f$ is increasing and continuous on $(-infty,j),$ and since $lim_{xto-infty}f(x)=1,$ then $f$ is positive on $(-infty,j).$ Further, since $fbigl(sqrt cbigr)$ is positive by prior work, then since $f$'s minimum value in $(k,infty)$ occurs at $x=sqrt c,$ then we have that $f$ is positive on $(k,infty).$ Thus, we need only ensure that $fleft(-sqrt cright)<-frac13.$ Since $0<c<1,$ then $c<sqrt c,$ and so the following are equivalent: $$fleft(-sqrt cright)<-frac13\-3fleft(-sqrt cright)>1\-3cdotfrac{c-sqrt c+c}{c-2sqrt c+c}>1\-3cdotfrac{2c-sqrt c}{2c-2sqrt c}>1\-3left(2c-sqrt cright)<2c-2sqrt c\-6c+3sqrt c<2c-2sqrt c\5sqrt c<8c\frac58<sqrt c\frac{25}{64}<c.$$
Putting it all together, we find that the range of $f$ does not contain the interval in question if and only if $c>frac{25}{64}.$
but when $c=frac12>frac{25}{64}$, it does contain the given interval, see the graph.
– farruhota
2 days ago
1
@farruhota: Incorrect. It contains points of the interval (as elements), but does not contain the interval, itself (as a subset). See the graph, yourself, and you'll find that the range is a subset of $left(-infty,-sqrt2right]cup[0,+infty),$ which does not (for example) contain $-frac13.$
– Cameron Buie
2 days ago
Agreed +1, there is a subtle difference between "completely" and "partially". In that case I must set my condition as yours $f(-sqrt{c})<-frac13$ to get the same interval for $c$ as yours. Thank you.
– farruhota
2 days ago
Even I got the same answer c>25/64. But it's wrong putting c as 26/64 f(x) is lying in the interval.
– Swap Nayak
15 mins ago
add a comment |
We should probably proceed by cases, as $f$ will have a vertical asymptote and a hole for $c=0,$ a single vertical asymptote and no holes for $c=1,$ neither vertical asymptotes nor holes when $c>1,$ and otherwise has two vertical asymptotes and no holes. In all cases, $f$ has $y=1$ as its horizontal asymptote, meaning that $lim_{|x|toinfty}f(x)=1.$
In the $c>1$ case, differentiating yields $$f'(x)=frac{x^2-c}{(x^2+2x+c)^2},$$ which is negative in the interval $left(-sqrt{c},sqrt{c}right),$ zero at $x=pmsqrt{c},$ and positive otherwise. Consequently, $f$ achieves a global maximum at $x=-sqrt{c}$ and a global minimum at $x=sqrt{c}.$ The minimum is the one we care about, though, since we'll require it to be greater than $-1.$ So, let's consider $$-1<fleft(sqrt cright)=frac{c+sqrt c+c}{c+2sqrt c+c}=frac{2c+sqrt c}{2c+2sqrt c}=frac{2sqrt c+1}{2sqrt c+2}.$$ But this is trivially true, since $c>1$ implies that both $2sqrt c+1$ and $2sqrt c+2$ are positive, so that $f(c)>0>-1,$ as desired.
I leave the $c=0$ and $c=1$ cases to you.
If $c<1$ and $cne 0,$ we know that $x^2+2x+c=(x-j)(x-k)$ for some distinct real numbers $j$ and $k.$ We also know that $x^2+x+c$ takes on a non-zero value at each of $j,k.$ Without loss of generality, suppose that $j<k.$ Now, at $x=j,$ the denominator changes signs, while the numerator does not, meaning that we have either $$lim_{xnearrow j}f(x)=-inftytext{ and }lim_{xsearrow j}f(x)=+inftytag{1}$$ or $$lim_{xnearrow j}f(x)=+inftytext{ and }lim_{xsearrow j}f(x)=-infty.tag{2}$$ Likewise, we have either $$lim_{xnearrow k}f(x)=-inftytext{ and }lim_{xsearrow k}f(x)=+inftytag{3}$$ or $$lim_{xnearrow k}f(x)=+inftytext{ and }lim_{xsearrow k}f(x)=-infty.tag{4}$$ If $(1)$ holds, then since $f$ is continuous on $(-infty,j)$ and since $lim_{xto-infty}f(x)=1$ and $lim_{xnearrow j}f(x)=-infty,$ then $(-infty,1)$ is a subset of the range of $f,$ and so $left[-1,-frac13right]$ is, too. If $(4)$ holds, then by continuity of $f$ on $(k,infty),$ we similarly have that $left[-1,-frac13right]$ is a subset of the range of $f.$ However, if $(2)$ and $(3)$ both hold, it isn't clear from what we've discussed so far whether $left[-1,-frac13right]$ is a subset of the range of $f$ or not, so let's consider further when these different possibilities may occur.
The only way for $(1)$ to hold is if the numerator is negative at $x=j,$ meaning that $j$ must lie between the two zeroes of $x^2+x+c.$ In other words, by the quadratic formula, we have the following (equivalent) inequalities: $$frac{-1-sqrt{1^2-4c}}2<frac{-2-sqrt{2^2-4c}}2<frac{-1+sqrt{1^2-4c}}2\-1-sqrt{1-4c}<-2-sqrt{4-4c}<-1+sqrt{1-4c}\-sqrt{1-4c}<-1-sqrt{4-4c}<sqrt{1-4c}\left(-1-sqrt{4-4c}right)^2<1-4c\1+2sqrt{4-4c}+4-4c<1-4c\2sqrt{4-4c}+4<0.$$ Since this is impossible, then $(1)$ cannot hold, and so $(2)$ must hold.
Similarly, $(4)$ only holds if the numerator is negative at $x=k,$ which happens if and only if $$frac{-1-sqrt{1^2-4c}}2<frac{-2+sqrt{2^2-4c}}2<frac{-1+sqrt{1^2-4c}}2\-1-sqrt{1-4c}<-2+sqrt{4-4c}<-1+sqrt{1-4c}\-sqrt{1-4c}<-1+sqrt{4-4c}<sqrt{1-4c}\left(-1+sqrt{4-4c}right)^2<1-4c\1-2sqrt{4-4c}+4-4c<1-4c\-2sqrt{4-4c}+4<0\2<sqrt{4-4c}\4<4-4c\c<0.$$ Thus, if $c<0,$ then $left[-1,-frac13right]$ is a subset of the range of $f.$
It remains only to consider $0<c<1,$ in which case $(2)$ and $(3)$ will hold, so that $f$ achieves a local maximum in the interval $(j,k).$ Observe that $$1-c<1\sqrt{1-c}<1\2sqrt{1-c}<2\sqrt{4-4c}<2\-2+sqrt{4-4c}<0\frac{-2+sqrt{4-4c}}2<0\k<0,$$ meaning that $f$ achieves its local maximum at $x=-sqrt{c},$ and a local minimum at $x=sqrt{c}$ by the first derivative test. Since $f$ is increasing and continuous on $(-infty,j),$ and since $lim_{xto-infty}f(x)=1,$ then $f$ is positive on $(-infty,j).$ Further, since $fbigl(sqrt cbigr)$ is positive by prior work, then since $f$'s minimum value in $(k,infty)$ occurs at $x=sqrt c,$ then we have that $f$ is positive on $(k,infty).$ Thus, we need only ensure that $fleft(-sqrt cright)<-frac13.$ Since $0<c<1,$ then $c<sqrt c,$ and so the following are equivalent: $$fleft(-sqrt cright)<-frac13\-3fleft(-sqrt cright)>1\-3cdotfrac{c-sqrt c+c}{c-2sqrt c+c}>1\-3cdotfrac{2c-sqrt c}{2c-2sqrt c}>1\-3left(2c-sqrt cright)<2c-2sqrt c\-6c+3sqrt c<2c-2sqrt c\5sqrt c<8c\frac58<sqrt c\frac{25}{64}<c.$$
Putting it all together, we find that the range of $f$ does not contain the interval in question if and only if $c>frac{25}{64}.$
but when $c=frac12>frac{25}{64}$, it does contain the given interval, see the graph.
– farruhota
2 days ago
1
@farruhota: Incorrect. It contains points of the interval (as elements), but does not contain the interval, itself (as a subset). See the graph, yourself, and you'll find that the range is a subset of $left(-infty,-sqrt2right]cup[0,+infty),$ which does not (for example) contain $-frac13.$
– Cameron Buie
2 days ago
Agreed +1, there is a subtle difference between "completely" and "partially". In that case I must set my condition as yours $f(-sqrt{c})<-frac13$ to get the same interval for $c$ as yours. Thank you.
– farruhota
2 days ago
Even I got the same answer c>25/64. But it's wrong putting c as 26/64 f(x) is lying in the interval.
– Swap Nayak
15 mins ago
add a comment |
We should probably proceed by cases, as $f$ will have a vertical asymptote and a hole for $c=0,$ a single vertical asymptote and no holes for $c=1,$ neither vertical asymptotes nor holes when $c>1,$ and otherwise has two vertical asymptotes and no holes. In all cases, $f$ has $y=1$ as its horizontal asymptote, meaning that $lim_{|x|toinfty}f(x)=1.$
In the $c>1$ case, differentiating yields $$f'(x)=frac{x^2-c}{(x^2+2x+c)^2},$$ which is negative in the interval $left(-sqrt{c},sqrt{c}right),$ zero at $x=pmsqrt{c},$ and positive otherwise. Consequently, $f$ achieves a global maximum at $x=-sqrt{c}$ and a global minimum at $x=sqrt{c}.$ The minimum is the one we care about, though, since we'll require it to be greater than $-1.$ So, let's consider $$-1<fleft(sqrt cright)=frac{c+sqrt c+c}{c+2sqrt c+c}=frac{2c+sqrt c}{2c+2sqrt c}=frac{2sqrt c+1}{2sqrt c+2}.$$ But this is trivially true, since $c>1$ implies that both $2sqrt c+1$ and $2sqrt c+2$ are positive, so that $f(c)>0>-1,$ as desired.
I leave the $c=0$ and $c=1$ cases to you.
If $c<1$ and $cne 0,$ we know that $x^2+2x+c=(x-j)(x-k)$ for some distinct real numbers $j$ and $k.$ We also know that $x^2+x+c$ takes on a non-zero value at each of $j,k.$ Without loss of generality, suppose that $j<k.$ Now, at $x=j,$ the denominator changes signs, while the numerator does not, meaning that we have either $$lim_{xnearrow j}f(x)=-inftytext{ and }lim_{xsearrow j}f(x)=+inftytag{1}$$ or $$lim_{xnearrow j}f(x)=+inftytext{ and }lim_{xsearrow j}f(x)=-infty.tag{2}$$ Likewise, we have either $$lim_{xnearrow k}f(x)=-inftytext{ and }lim_{xsearrow k}f(x)=+inftytag{3}$$ or $$lim_{xnearrow k}f(x)=+inftytext{ and }lim_{xsearrow k}f(x)=-infty.tag{4}$$ If $(1)$ holds, then since $f$ is continuous on $(-infty,j)$ and since $lim_{xto-infty}f(x)=1$ and $lim_{xnearrow j}f(x)=-infty,$ then $(-infty,1)$ is a subset of the range of $f,$ and so $left[-1,-frac13right]$ is, too. If $(4)$ holds, then by continuity of $f$ on $(k,infty),$ we similarly have that $left[-1,-frac13right]$ is a subset of the range of $f.$ However, if $(2)$ and $(3)$ both hold, it isn't clear from what we've discussed so far whether $left[-1,-frac13right]$ is a subset of the range of $f$ or not, so let's consider further when these different possibilities may occur.
The only way for $(1)$ to hold is if the numerator is negative at $x=j,$ meaning that $j$ must lie between the two zeroes of $x^2+x+c.$ In other words, by the quadratic formula, we have the following (equivalent) inequalities: $$frac{-1-sqrt{1^2-4c}}2<frac{-2-sqrt{2^2-4c}}2<frac{-1+sqrt{1^2-4c}}2\-1-sqrt{1-4c}<-2-sqrt{4-4c}<-1+sqrt{1-4c}\-sqrt{1-4c}<-1-sqrt{4-4c}<sqrt{1-4c}\left(-1-sqrt{4-4c}right)^2<1-4c\1+2sqrt{4-4c}+4-4c<1-4c\2sqrt{4-4c}+4<0.$$ Since this is impossible, then $(1)$ cannot hold, and so $(2)$ must hold.
Similarly, $(4)$ only holds if the numerator is negative at $x=k,$ which happens if and only if $$frac{-1-sqrt{1^2-4c}}2<frac{-2+sqrt{2^2-4c}}2<frac{-1+sqrt{1^2-4c}}2\-1-sqrt{1-4c}<-2+sqrt{4-4c}<-1+sqrt{1-4c}\-sqrt{1-4c}<-1+sqrt{4-4c}<sqrt{1-4c}\left(-1+sqrt{4-4c}right)^2<1-4c\1-2sqrt{4-4c}+4-4c<1-4c\-2sqrt{4-4c}+4<0\2<sqrt{4-4c}\4<4-4c\c<0.$$ Thus, if $c<0,$ then $left[-1,-frac13right]$ is a subset of the range of $f.$
It remains only to consider $0<c<1,$ in which case $(2)$ and $(3)$ will hold, so that $f$ achieves a local maximum in the interval $(j,k).$ Observe that $$1-c<1\sqrt{1-c}<1\2sqrt{1-c}<2\sqrt{4-4c}<2\-2+sqrt{4-4c}<0\frac{-2+sqrt{4-4c}}2<0\k<0,$$ meaning that $f$ achieves its local maximum at $x=-sqrt{c},$ and a local minimum at $x=sqrt{c}$ by the first derivative test. Since $f$ is increasing and continuous on $(-infty,j),$ and since $lim_{xto-infty}f(x)=1,$ then $f$ is positive on $(-infty,j).$ Further, since $fbigl(sqrt cbigr)$ is positive by prior work, then since $f$'s minimum value in $(k,infty)$ occurs at $x=sqrt c,$ then we have that $f$ is positive on $(k,infty).$ Thus, we need only ensure that $fleft(-sqrt cright)<-frac13.$ Since $0<c<1,$ then $c<sqrt c,$ and so the following are equivalent: $$fleft(-sqrt cright)<-frac13\-3fleft(-sqrt cright)>1\-3cdotfrac{c-sqrt c+c}{c-2sqrt c+c}>1\-3cdotfrac{2c-sqrt c}{2c-2sqrt c}>1\-3left(2c-sqrt cright)<2c-2sqrt c\-6c+3sqrt c<2c-2sqrt c\5sqrt c<8c\frac58<sqrt c\frac{25}{64}<c.$$
Putting it all together, we find that the range of $f$ does not contain the interval in question if and only if $c>frac{25}{64}.$
We should probably proceed by cases, as $f$ will have a vertical asymptote and a hole for $c=0,$ a single vertical asymptote and no holes for $c=1,$ neither vertical asymptotes nor holes when $c>1,$ and otherwise has two vertical asymptotes and no holes. In all cases, $f$ has $y=1$ as its horizontal asymptote, meaning that $lim_{|x|toinfty}f(x)=1.$
In the $c>1$ case, differentiating yields $$f'(x)=frac{x^2-c}{(x^2+2x+c)^2},$$ which is negative in the interval $left(-sqrt{c},sqrt{c}right),$ zero at $x=pmsqrt{c},$ and positive otherwise. Consequently, $f$ achieves a global maximum at $x=-sqrt{c}$ and a global minimum at $x=sqrt{c}.$ The minimum is the one we care about, though, since we'll require it to be greater than $-1.$ So, let's consider $$-1<fleft(sqrt cright)=frac{c+sqrt c+c}{c+2sqrt c+c}=frac{2c+sqrt c}{2c+2sqrt c}=frac{2sqrt c+1}{2sqrt c+2}.$$ But this is trivially true, since $c>1$ implies that both $2sqrt c+1$ and $2sqrt c+2$ are positive, so that $f(c)>0>-1,$ as desired.
I leave the $c=0$ and $c=1$ cases to you.
If $c<1$ and $cne 0,$ we know that $x^2+2x+c=(x-j)(x-k)$ for some distinct real numbers $j$ and $k.$ We also know that $x^2+x+c$ takes on a non-zero value at each of $j,k.$ Without loss of generality, suppose that $j<k.$ Now, at $x=j,$ the denominator changes signs, while the numerator does not, meaning that we have either $$lim_{xnearrow j}f(x)=-inftytext{ and }lim_{xsearrow j}f(x)=+inftytag{1}$$ or $$lim_{xnearrow j}f(x)=+inftytext{ and }lim_{xsearrow j}f(x)=-infty.tag{2}$$ Likewise, we have either $$lim_{xnearrow k}f(x)=-inftytext{ and }lim_{xsearrow k}f(x)=+inftytag{3}$$ or $$lim_{xnearrow k}f(x)=+inftytext{ and }lim_{xsearrow k}f(x)=-infty.tag{4}$$ If $(1)$ holds, then since $f$ is continuous on $(-infty,j)$ and since $lim_{xto-infty}f(x)=1$ and $lim_{xnearrow j}f(x)=-infty,$ then $(-infty,1)$ is a subset of the range of $f,$ and so $left[-1,-frac13right]$ is, too. If $(4)$ holds, then by continuity of $f$ on $(k,infty),$ we similarly have that $left[-1,-frac13right]$ is a subset of the range of $f.$ However, if $(2)$ and $(3)$ both hold, it isn't clear from what we've discussed so far whether $left[-1,-frac13right]$ is a subset of the range of $f$ or not, so let's consider further when these different possibilities may occur.
The only way for $(1)$ to hold is if the numerator is negative at $x=j,$ meaning that $j$ must lie between the two zeroes of $x^2+x+c.$ In other words, by the quadratic formula, we have the following (equivalent) inequalities: $$frac{-1-sqrt{1^2-4c}}2<frac{-2-sqrt{2^2-4c}}2<frac{-1+sqrt{1^2-4c}}2\-1-sqrt{1-4c}<-2-sqrt{4-4c}<-1+sqrt{1-4c}\-sqrt{1-4c}<-1-sqrt{4-4c}<sqrt{1-4c}\left(-1-sqrt{4-4c}right)^2<1-4c\1+2sqrt{4-4c}+4-4c<1-4c\2sqrt{4-4c}+4<0.$$ Since this is impossible, then $(1)$ cannot hold, and so $(2)$ must hold.
Similarly, $(4)$ only holds if the numerator is negative at $x=k,$ which happens if and only if $$frac{-1-sqrt{1^2-4c}}2<frac{-2+sqrt{2^2-4c}}2<frac{-1+sqrt{1^2-4c}}2\-1-sqrt{1-4c}<-2+sqrt{4-4c}<-1+sqrt{1-4c}\-sqrt{1-4c}<-1+sqrt{4-4c}<sqrt{1-4c}\left(-1+sqrt{4-4c}right)^2<1-4c\1-2sqrt{4-4c}+4-4c<1-4c\-2sqrt{4-4c}+4<0\2<sqrt{4-4c}\4<4-4c\c<0.$$ Thus, if $c<0,$ then $left[-1,-frac13right]$ is a subset of the range of $f.$
It remains only to consider $0<c<1,$ in which case $(2)$ and $(3)$ will hold, so that $f$ achieves a local maximum in the interval $(j,k).$ Observe that $$1-c<1\sqrt{1-c}<1\2sqrt{1-c}<2\sqrt{4-4c}<2\-2+sqrt{4-4c}<0\frac{-2+sqrt{4-4c}}2<0\k<0,$$ meaning that $f$ achieves its local maximum at $x=-sqrt{c},$ and a local minimum at $x=sqrt{c}$ by the first derivative test. Since $f$ is increasing and continuous on $(-infty,j),$ and since $lim_{xto-infty}f(x)=1,$ then $f$ is positive on $(-infty,j).$ Further, since $fbigl(sqrt cbigr)$ is positive by prior work, then since $f$'s minimum value in $(k,infty)$ occurs at $x=sqrt c,$ then we have that $f$ is positive on $(k,infty).$ Thus, we need only ensure that $fleft(-sqrt cright)<-frac13.$ Since $0<c<1,$ then $c<sqrt c,$ and so the following are equivalent: $$fleft(-sqrt cright)<-frac13\-3fleft(-sqrt cright)>1\-3cdotfrac{c-sqrt c+c}{c-2sqrt c+c}>1\-3cdotfrac{2c-sqrt c}{2c-2sqrt c}>1\-3left(2c-sqrt cright)<2c-2sqrt c\-6c+3sqrt c<2c-2sqrt c\5sqrt c<8c\frac58<sqrt c\frac{25}{64}<c.$$
Putting it all together, we find that the range of $f$ does not contain the interval in question if and only if $c>frac{25}{64}.$
answered 2 days ago
Cameron BuieCameron Buie
85.1k771155
85.1k771155
but when $c=frac12>frac{25}{64}$, it does contain the given interval, see the graph.
– farruhota
2 days ago
1
@farruhota: Incorrect. It contains points of the interval (as elements), but does not contain the interval, itself (as a subset). See the graph, yourself, and you'll find that the range is a subset of $left(-infty,-sqrt2right]cup[0,+infty),$ which does not (for example) contain $-frac13.$
– Cameron Buie
2 days ago
Agreed +1, there is a subtle difference between "completely" and "partially". In that case I must set my condition as yours $f(-sqrt{c})<-frac13$ to get the same interval for $c$ as yours. Thank you.
– farruhota
2 days ago
Even I got the same answer c>25/64. But it's wrong putting c as 26/64 f(x) is lying in the interval.
– Swap Nayak
15 mins ago
add a comment |
but when $c=frac12>frac{25}{64}$, it does contain the given interval, see the graph.
– farruhota
2 days ago
1
@farruhota: Incorrect. It contains points of the interval (as elements), but does not contain the interval, itself (as a subset). See the graph, yourself, and you'll find that the range is a subset of $left(-infty,-sqrt2right]cup[0,+infty),$ which does not (for example) contain $-frac13.$
– Cameron Buie
2 days ago
Agreed +1, there is a subtle difference between "completely" and "partially". In that case I must set my condition as yours $f(-sqrt{c})<-frac13$ to get the same interval for $c$ as yours. Thank you.
– farruhota
2 days ago
Even I got the same answer c>25/64. But it's wrong putting c as 26/64 f(x) is lying in the interval.
– Swap Nayak
15 mins ago
but when $c=frac12>frac{25}{64}$, it does contain the given interval, see the graph.
– farruhota
2 days ago
but when $c=frac12>frac{25}{64}$, it does contain the given interval, see the graph.
– farruhota
2 days ago
1
1
@farruhota: Incorrect. It contains points of the interval (as elements), but does not contain the interval, itself (as a subset). See the graph, yourself, and you'll find that the range is a subset of $left(-infty,-sqrt2right]cup[0,+infty),$ which does not (for example) contain $-frac13.$
– Cameron Buie
2 days ago
@farruhota: Incorrect. It contains points of the interval (as elements), but does not contain the interval, itself (as a subset). See the graph, yourself, and you'll find that the range is a subset of $left(-infty,-sqrt2right]cup[0,+infty),$ which does not (for example) contain $-frac13.$
– Cameron Buie
2 days ago
Agreed +1, there is a subtle difference between "completely" and "partially". In that case I must set my condition as yours $f(-sqrt{c})<-frac13$ to get the same interval for $c$ as yours. Thank you.
– farruhota
2 days ago
Agreed +1, there is a subtle difference between "completely" and "partially". In that case I must set my condition as yours $f(-sqrt{c})<-frac13$ to get the same interval for $c$ as yours. Thank you.
– farruhota
2 days ago
Even I got the same answer c>25/64. But it's wrong putting c as 26/64 f(x) is lying in the interval.
– Swap Nayak
15 mins ago
Even I got the same answer c>25/64. But it's wrong putting c as 26/64 f(x) is lying in the interval.
– Swap Nayak
15 mins ago
add a comment |
Refer to the Desmos graph.
Find the local maximum:
$$begin{align}f'(x)&= left(frac{x^2 + x + c}{x^2 + 2x + c}right)'=\
&=frac{(2x+1)(x^2+2x+c)-(x^2+x+c)(2x+2)}{(x^2 + 2x + c)^2}=0 Rightarrow \
x^2&=c Rightarrow x=pm sqrt{c}end{align}$$
Note the local maximum occurs for $x=-sqrt{c}$, for which:
$$f(-sqrt{c})=frac{2sqrt{c}-1}{2sqrt{c}-2}<-1 Rightarrow cin left(frac9{16},1right).$$
For $cin [1,+infty)$:
$$f(x)=frac{x^2+x+c}{x^2+2x+c}=1-frac{x}{x^2+2x+c}>0.$$
Hence, when $c>frac9{16}$, the function's range will not contain $[-1,-frac13]$.
add a comment |
Refer to the Desmos graph.
Find the local maximum:
$$begin{align}f'(x)&= left(frac{x^2 + x + c}{x^2 + 2x + c}right)'=\
&=frac{(2x+1)(x^2+2x+c)-(x^2+x+c)(2x+2)}{(x^2 + 2x + c)^2}=0 Rightarrow \
x^2&=c Rightarrow x=pm sqrt{c}end{align}$$
Note the local maximum occurs for $x=-sqrt{c}$, for which:
$$f(-sqrt{c})=frac{2sqrt{c}-1}{2sqrt{c}-2}<-1 Rightarrow cin left(frac9{16},1right).$$
For $cin [1,+infty)$:
$$f(x)=frac{x^2+x+c}{x^2+2x+c}=1-frac{x}{x^2+2x+c}>0.$$
Hence, when $c>frac9{16}$, the function's range will not contain $[-1,-frac13]$.
add a comment |
Refer to the Desmos graph.
Find the local maximum:
$$begin{align}f'(x)&= left(frac{x^2 + x + c}{x^2 + 2x + c}right)'=\
&=frac{(2x+1)(x^2+2x+c)-(x^2+x+c)(2x+2)}{(x^2 + 2x + c)^2}=0 Rightarrow \
x^2&=c Rightarrow x=pm sqrt{c}end{align}$$
Note the local maximum occurs for $x=-sqrt{c}$, for which:
$$f(-sqrt{c})=frac{2sqrt{c}-1}{2sqrt{c}-2}<-1 Rightarrow cin left(frac9{16},1right).$$
For $cin [1,+infty)$:
$$f(x)=frac{x^2+x+c}{x^2+2x+c}=1-frac{x}{x^2+2x+c}>0.$$
Hence, when $c>frac9{16}$, the function's range will not contain $[-1,-frac13]$.
Refer to the Desmos graph.
Find the local maximum:
$$begin{align}f'(x)&= left(frac{x^2 + x + c}{x^2 + 2x + c}right)'=\
&=frac{(2x+1)(x^2+2x+c)-(x^2+x+c)(2x+2)}{(x^2 + 2x + c)^2}=0 Rightarrow \
x^2&=c Rightarrow x=pm sqrt{c}end{align}$$
Note the local maximum occurs for $x=-sqrt{c}$, for which:
$$f(-sqrt{c})=frac{2sqrt{c}-1}{2sqrt{c}-2}<-1 Rightarrow cin left(frac9{16},1right).$$
For $cin [1,+infty)$:
$$f(x)=frac{x^2+x+c}{x^2+2x+c}=1-frac{x}{x^2+2x+c}>0.$$
Hence, when $c>frac9{16}$, the function's range will not contain $[-1,-frac13]$.
answered 2 days ago
farruhotafarruhota
19.4k2736
19.4k2736
add a comment |
add a comment |
The inequality that you got should have been $$g(y,c)=4(1-c)y^2+2(4c-2)y+(1-4c)ge0$$Well, we want this to fail when $y$ is in this range. i.e. for $yin[-1,-1/3]$, $$4(1-c)y^2+2(4c-2)y+(1-4c)<0$$ This means if we plot this with $y$ on the $x$-axis and the value of $g(y)$ on the $y$-axis, then it will be a positive quadratic which dips below the $x$-axis for the range of $x$ values $[-1,-1/3]$. As we vary $c$, the places where this graph cuts the $x$ axis move (i.e. the roots of $g$). Note, when $c=0$, the graph is $$g(y,c=0)=4y^2-4y+1=(2y-1)^2$$which has one repeated root at $y=1/2$. Then as $c$ is increased, the minimum point of this quadratic moves leftward. The point at which $-1/3$ joins the range of values for which $g(-1/3,c)le0$ is when it first becomes a root. For what value of $c$ does this happen?
$$g(-1/3,c)=0impliescdotsimplies c=frac{25}{64}$$As we increase $c$ further, eventually $-1$ also joins this range. $$g(-1,c)=0impliescdotsimplies c=frac9{16}$$
For $c>frac9{16}$, $[-1,-1/3]$ is still not in the range of $f(x)$ - but $c=frac9{16}$ is the first value of $c$ for which this happens.
So the range of $c$ for which no points from the interval $[-1,-1/3]$ are included in the range of $f$ is given by $$bbox[5px,border:2px solid red]{cgefrac9{16}}$$
Meanwhile, the range of $c$ for which at least one point from the interval $[-1,-1/3]$ is missing from the range of $f$ is given by $$bbox[5px,border:2px solid red]{cgefrac{25}{64}}$$
This seems to be trying to find the values of $c$ for which the range of $f$ is disjoint from the interval in question, rather than simply not containing the interval
– Cameron Buie
2 days ago
I assumed the question was asking for the values of $c$ for which the entire interval is not in the range, but I see what you mean - it could easily also mean the range of $c$ for which any point in this interval is not in the range. In this case, this cutoff would be at $c=frac{25}{64}$, which is the point at which the point $y=-1/3$ joins the range of values for which $g(y,c)le0$.
– John Doe
14 hours ago
add a comment |
The inequality that you got should have been $$g(y,c)=4(1-c)y^2+2(4c-2)y+(1-4c)ge0$$Well, we want this to fail when $y$ is in this range. i.e. for $yin[-1,-1/3]$, $$4(1-c)y^2+2(4c-2)y+(1-4c)<0$$ This means if we plot this with $y$ on the $x$-axis and the value of $g(y)$ on the $y$-axis, then it will be a positive quadratic which dips below the $x$-axis for the range of $x$ values $[-1,-1/3]$. As we vary $c$, the places where this graph cuts the $x$ axis move (i.e. the roots of $g$). Note, when $c=0$, the graph is $$g(y,c=0)=4y^2-4y+1=(2y-1)^2$$which has one repeated root at $y=1/2$. Then as $c$ is increased, the minimum point of this quadratic moves leftward. The point at which $-1/3$ joins the range of values for which $g(-1/3,c)le0$ is when it first becomes a root. For what value of $c$ does this happen?
$$g(-1/3,c)=0impliescdotsimplies c=frac{25}{64}$$As we increase $c$ further, eventually $-1$ also joins this range. $$g(-1,c)=0impliescdotsimplies c=frac9{16}$$
For $c>frac9{16}$, $[-1,-1/3]$ is still not in the range of $f(x)$ - but $c=frac9{16}$ is the first value of $c$ for which this happens.
So the range of $c$ for which no points from the interval $[-1,-1/3]$ are included in the range of $f$ is given by $$bbox[5px,border:2px solid red]{cgefrac9{16}}$$
Meanwhile, the range of $c$ for which at least one point from the interval $[-1,-1/3]$ is missing from the range of $f$ is given by $$bbox[5px,border:2px solid red]{cgefrac{25}{64}}$$
This seems to be trying to find the values of $c$ for which the range of $f$ is disjoint from the interval in question, rather than simply not containing the interval
– Cameron Buie
2 days ago
I assumed the question was asking for the values of $c$ for which the entire interval is not in the range, but I see what you mean - it could easily also mean the range of $c$ for which any point in this interval is not in the range. In this case, this cutoff would be at $c=frac{25}{64}$, which is the point at which the point $y=-1/3$ joins the range of values for which $g(y,c)le0$.
– John Doe
14 hours ago
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The inequality that you got should have been $$g(y,c)=4(1-c)y^2+2(4c-2)y+(1-4c)ge0$$Well, we want this to fail when $y$ is in this range. i.e. for $yin[-1,-1/3]$, $$4(1-c)y^2+2(4c-2)y+(1-4c)<0$$ This means if we plot this with $y$ on the $x$-axis and the value of $g(y)$ on the $y$-axis, then it will be a positive quadratic which dips below the $x$-axis for the range of $x$ values $[-1,-1/3]$. As we vary $c$, the places where this graph cuts the $x$ axis move (i.e. the roots of $g$). Note, when $c=0$, the graph is $$g(y,c=0)=4y^2-4y+1=(2y-1)^2$$which has one repeated root at $y=1/2$. Then as $c$ is increased, the minimum point of this quadratic moves leftward. The point at which $-1/3$ joins the range of values for which $g(-1/3,c)le0$ is when it first becomes a root. For what value of $c$ does this happen?
$$g(-1/3,c)=0impliescdotsimplies c=frac{25}{64}$$As we increase $c$ further, eventually $-1$ also joins this range. $$g(-1,c)=0impliescdotsimplies c=frac9{16}$$
For $c>frac9{16}$, $[-1,-1/3]$ is still not in the range of $f(x)$ - but $c=frac9{16}$ is the first value of $c$ for which this happens.
So the range of $c$ for which no points from the interval $[-1,-1/3]$ are included in the range of $f$ is given by $$bbox[5px,border:2px solid red]{cgefrac9{16}}$$
Meanwhile, the range of $c$ for which at least one point from the interval $[-1,-1/3]$ is missing from the range of $f$ is given by $$bbox[5px,border:2px solid red]{cgefrac{25}{64}}$$
The inequality that you got should have been $$g(y,c)=4(1-c)y^2+2(4c-2)y+(1-4c)ge0$$Well, we want this to fail when $y$ is in this range. i.e. for $yin[-1,-1/3]$, $$4(1-c)y^2+2(4c-2)y+(1-4c)<0$$ This means if we plot this with $y$ on the $x$-axis and the value of $g(y)$ on the $y$-axis, then it will be a positive quadratic which dips below the $x$-axis for the range of $x$ values $[-1,-1/3]$. As we vary $c$, the places where this graph cuts the $x$ axis move (i.e. the roots of $g$). Note, when $c=0$, the graph is $$g(y,c=0)=4y^2-4y+1=(2y-1)^2$$which has one repeated root at $y=1/2$. Then as $c$ is increased, the minimum point of this quadratic moves leftward. The point at which $-1/3$ joins the range of values for which $g(-1/3,c)le0$ is when it first becomes a root. For what value of $c$ does this happen?
$$g(-1/3,c)=0impliescdotsimplies c=frac{25}{64}$$As we increase $c$ further, eventually $-1$ also joins this range. $$g(-1,c)=0impliescdotsimplies c=frac9{16}$$
For $c>frac9{16}$, $[-1,-1/3]$ is still not in the range of $f(x)$ - but $c=frac9{16}$ is the first value of $c$ for which this happens.
So the range of $c$ for which no points from the interval $[-1,-1/3]$ are included in the range of $f$ is given by $$bbox[5px,border:2px solid red]{cgefrac9{16}}$$
Meanwhile, the range of $c$ for which at least one point from the interval $[-1,-1/3]$ is missing from the range of $f$ is given by $$bbox[5px,border:2px solid red]{cgefrac{25}{64}}$$
edited 14 hours ago
answered 2 days ago
John DoeJohn Doe
10.7k11237
10.7k11237
This seems to be trying to find the values of $c$ for which the range of $f$ is disjoint from the interval in question, rather than simply not containing the interval
– Cameron Buie
2 days ago
I assumed the question was asking for the values of $c$ for which the entire interval is not in the range, but I see what you mean - it could easily also mean the range of $c$ for which any point in this interval is not in the range. In this case, this cutoff would be at $c=frac{25}{64}$, which is the point at which the point $y=-1/3$ joins the range of values for which $g(y,c)le0$.
– John Doe
14 hours ago
add a comment |
This seems to be trying to find the values of $c$ for which the range of $f$ is disjoint from the interval in question, rather than simply not containing the interval
– Cameron Buie
2 days ago
I assumed the question was asking for the values of $c$ for which the entire interval is not in the range, but I see what you mean - it could easily also mean the range of $c$ for which any point in this interval is not in the range. In this case, this cutoff would be at $c=frac{25}{64}$, which is the point at which the point $y=-1/3$ joins the range of values for which $g(y,c)le0$.
– John Doe
14 hours ago
This seems to be trying to find the values of $c$ for which the range of $f$ is disjoint from the interval in question, rather than simply not containing the interval
– Cameron Buie
2 days ago
This seems to be trying to find the values of $c$ for which the range of $f$ is disjoint from the interval in question, rather than simply not containing the interval
– Cameron Buie
2 days ago
I assumed the question was asking for the values of $c$ for which the entire interval is not in the range, but I see what you mean - it could easily also mean the range of $c$ for which any point in this interval is not in the range. In this case, this cutoff would be at $c=frac{25}{64}$, which is the point at which the point $y=-1/3$ joins the range of values for which $g(y,c)le0$.
– John Doe
14 hours ago
I assumed the question was asking for the values of $c$ for which the entire interval is not in the range, but I see what you mean - it could easily also mean the range of $c$ for which any point in this interval is not in the range. In this case, this cutoff would be at $c=frac{25}{64}$, which is the point at which the point $y=-1/3$ joins the range of values for which $g(y,c)le0$.
– John Doe
14 hours ago
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Find the range of this function as you usually would. You should get an answer in terms of $c$. Then match this to the requirement to fix $c$.
– John Doe
2 days ago
See math.stackexchange.com/questions/2759764/finding-the-value-of-c
– lab bhattacharjee
2 days ago
and math.stackexchange.com/questions/1414298/…
– lab bhattacharjee
2 days ago
I let the function equal to the and got a quadratic in x. I used the fact that x is real and thus set the discriminant greater than or equal to zero. I then got a quadratic inequality in y and c. This inequality should be broken when y is between -1 and -1/3. So I graphed the new function of y and checked where the inequality was broken and calculated the corresponding value of c.
– Swap Nayak
2 days ago
But it gives the wrong answer. I guess it is because there can be multiple graphs where the inequality is broken and so multiple values of c.
– Swap Nayak
2 days ago