Why are two permutations conjugate iff they have the same cycle structure?












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I have heard that two permutations are conjugate if they have the same cyclic structure. Is there an intuitive way to understand why this is?










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    Have you read a proof of this fact, and found it to be unintuitive?
    $endgroup$
    – Jonas Meyer
    Jun 28 '11 at 3:56










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    They're not: $(1 2) (1) = (1) (1 2) implies (1 2)$ is conjugate with $(1)$ even though they have different cycle structure.
    $endgroup$
    – Zaz
    Nov 13 '17 at 22:13










  • $begingroup$
    @Zaz That's not how conjugates are defined. If $a b = b c implies b^{-1} a b = c text{ for } a,b,c in G$ then $a$ and $c$ are said to be conjugates. You're example just shows that $(12)$ and $(12)$ are conjugates i.e. they lie in the same conjugacy class, which is trivial. For $(12)$ to be conjugate with $(1)$ you have to show the existence of some $g in G$ such that $g^{-1} (12) g = (1)$ and no such $g$ exists, hence $(12)$ and $(1)$ are not conjugates.
    $endgroup$
    – Aditya Sriram
    Sep 15 '18 at 8:46


















39












$begingroup$


I have heard that two permutations are conjugate if they have the same cyclic structure. Is there an intuitive way to understand why this is?










share|cite|improve this question











$endgroup$








  • 8




    $begingroup$
    Have you read a proof of this fact, and found it to be unintuitive?
    $endgroup$
    – Jonas Meyer
    Jun 28 '11 at 3:56










  • $begingroup$
    They're not: $(1 2) (1) = (1) (1 2) implies (1 2)$ is conjugate with $(1)$ even though they have different cycle structure.
    $endgroup$
    – Zaz
    Nov 13 '17 at 22:13










  • $begingroup$
    @Zaz That's not how conjugates are defined. If $a b = b c implies b^{-1} a b = c text{ for } a,b,c in G$ then $a$ and $c$ are said to be conjugates. You're example just shows that $(12)$ and $(12)$ are conjugates i.e. they lie in the same conjugacy class, which is trivial. For $(12)$ to be conjugate with $(1)$ you have to show the existence of some $g in G$ such that $g^{-1} (12) g = (1)$ and no such $g$ exists, hence $(12)$ and $(1)$ are not conjugates.
    $endgroup$
    – Aditya Sriram
    Sep 15 '18 at 8:46
















39












39








39


25



$begingroup$


I have heard that two permutations are conjugate if they have the same cyclic structure. Is there an intuitive way to understand why this is?










share|cite|improve this question











$endgroup$




I have heard that two permutations are conjugate if they have the same cyclic structure. Is there an intuitive way to understand why this is?







abstract-algebra group-theory permutations symmetric-groups






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edited Oct 12 '15 at 17:12









Martin Sleziak

44.7k8117272




44.7k8117272










asked Jun 28 '11 at 3:53









Han SoloHan Solo

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196143








  • 8




    $begingroup$
    Have you read a proof of this fact, and found it to be unintuitive?
    $endgroup$
    – Jonas Meyer
    Jun 28 '11 at 3:56










  • $begingroup$
    They're not: $(1 2) (1) = (1) (1 2) implies (1 2)$ is conjugate with $(1)$ even though they have different cycle structure.
    $endgroup$
    – Zaz
    Nov 13 '17 at 22:13










  • $begingroup$
    @Zaz That's not how conjugates are defined. If $a b = b c implies b^{-1} a b = c text{ for } a,b,c in G$ then $a$ and $c$ are said to be conjugates. You're example just shows that $(12)$ and $(12)$ are conjugates i.e. they lie in the same conjugacy class, which is trivial. For $(12)$ to be conjugate with $(1)$ you have to show the existence of some $g in G$ such that $g^{-1} (12) g = (1)$ and no such $g$ exists, hence $(12)$ and $(1)$ are not conjugates.
    $endgroup$
    – Aditya Sriram
    Sep 15 '18 at 8:46
















  • 8




    $begingroup$
    Have you read a proof of this fact, and found it to be unintuitive?
    $endgroup$
    – Jonas Meyer
    Jun 28 '11 at 3:56










  • $begingroup$
    They're not: $(1 2) (1) = (1) (1 2) implies (1 2)$ is conjugate with $(1)$ even though they have different cycle structure.
    $endgroup$
    – Zaz
    Nov 13 '17 at 22:13










  • $begingroup$
    @Zaz That's not how conjugates are defined. If $a b = b c implies b^{-1} a b = c text{ for } a,b,c in G$ then $a$ and $c$ are said to be conjugates. You're example just shows that $(12)$ and $(12)$ are conjugates i.e. they lie in the same conjugacy class, which is trivial. For $(12)$ to be conjugate with $(1)$ you have to show the existence of some $g in G$ such that $g^{-1} (12) g = (1)$ and no such $g$ exists, hence $(12)$ and $(1)$ are not conjugates.
    $endgroup$
    – Aditya Sriram
    Sep 15 '18 at 8:46










8




8




$begingroup$
Have you read a proof of this fact, and found it to be unintuitive?
$endgroup$
– Jonas Meyer
Jun 28 '11 at 3:56




$begingroup$
Have you read a proof of this fact, and found it to be unintuitive?
$endgroup$
– Jonas Meyer
Jun 28 '11 at 3:56












$begingroup$
They're not: $(1 2) (1) = (1) (1 2) implies (1 2)$ is conjugate with $(1)$ even though they have different cycle structure.
$endgroup$
– Zaz
Nov 13 '17 at 22:13




$begingroup$
They're not: $(1 2) (1) = (1) (1 2) implies (1 2)$ is conjugate with $(1)$ even though they have different cycle structure.
$endgroup$
– Zaz
Nov 13 '17 at 22:13












$begingroup$
@Zaz That's not how conjugates are defined. If $a b = b c implies b^{-1} a b = c text{ for } a,b,c in G$ then $a$ and $c$ are said to be conjugates. You're example just shows that $(12)$ and $(12)$ are conjugates i.e. they lie in the same conjugacy class, which is trivial. For $(12)$ to be conjugate with $(1)$ you have to show the existence of some $g in G$ such that $g^{-1} (12) g = (1)$ and no such $g$ exists, hence $(12)$ and $(1)$ are not conjugates.
$endgroup$
– Aditya Sriram
Sep 15 '18 at 8:46






$begingroup$
@Zaz That's not how conjugates are defined. If $a b = b c implies b^{-1} a b = c text{ for } a,b,c in G$ then $a$ and $c$ are said to be conjugates. You're example just shows that $(12)$ and $(12)$ are conjugates i.e. they lie in the same conjugacy class, which is trivial. For $(12)$ to be conjugate with $(1)$ you have to show the existence of some $g in G$ such that $g^{-1} (12) g = (1)$ and no such $g$ exists, hence $(12)$ and $(1)$ are not conjugates.
$endgroup$
– Aditya Sriram
Sep 15 '18 at 8:46












4 Answers
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50












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It's much like with linear transformations: conjugating a matrix amounts to a "change of basis", a translation from one basis to another, but similar matrices still represent the same linear transformation.



Conjugating by a permutation amounts to "translating" into new labels for the elements being permuted, so "similar permutations" (conjugate permutations) must represent the same underlying "shuffling" of the elements of the set, just under possibly different names.



Formally: Suppose that $sigma$ and $tau$ are permutations.



Claim. Let $rho = tausigmatau^{-1}$ (multiplication corresponding to composition of functions). If $sigma(i)=j$, then $rho(tau(i)) = tau(j)$. In particular, the cycle structure of $rho$ is the same as the cycle structure of $sigma$, replacing each entry $a$ with $tau(a)$.



Proof. $rho(tau(i)) = tausigmatau^{-1}tau(i) = tausigma(i) = tau(j)$. QED.



Conversely, suppose that $sigma$ and $rho$ have the same cycle structure. List the cycles of $sigma$ above the cycles of $rho$, aligning cycles of the same length with one another. Now interpret this as the two-line presentation of a permutation, and call it $tau$; then $tausigmatau^{-1}=rho$ by the claim.



For example, if $sigma=(1,3,2,4)(5,6)$ and $rho=(5,2,3,1)(6,4)$, then write
$$begin{array}{cccccc}
1&3&2&4&5&6\
5&2&3&1&6&4
end{array}$$
Then we let $tau$ be the permutation $1mapsto 5$, $3mapsto 2$, $2mapsto 3$, $4mapsto 1$, $5mapsto 6$, and $6mapsto 4$. Then by the claim above, $tausigmatau^{-1}=rho$. (Note. As Gerry Myerson notes, if we aren't working in all of $S_n$, we may not have $tau$ in whatever subgroup we happen to be working in; so there is an implicit assumption for the "if" part that we are working in $S_n$).






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    22












    $begingroup$

    Warning: the permutations are conjugate $bf in S_n$ if they have the same cycle structure. This may not be true in subgroups of $S_n$. For example, $A_4$ is the alternating group on 4 symbols, it consists of the even permutations in $S_4$. The elements $(1 2 3)$ and $(1 3 2)$ of $A_4$ have the same cycle structure, but they are not conjugate in $A_4$. That is, there are elements $g$ in $S_4$ such that $g^{-1}(1 2 3)g=(1 3 2)$, but there is no such element in $A_4$.






    share|cite|improve this answer









    $endgroup$









    • 1




      $begingroup$
      Thank you for your answer, sir. How can we see that for a cycle we have the equation $r(i_1,i_2,dots,i_k)r^{−1}=(r(i_1),r(i_2),dots,r(i_k))$?
      $endgroup$
      – Student
      Jun 22 '14 at 13:30








    • 1




      $begingroup$
      Why don't you post that as a question, instead of hiding it in a comment on an old answer?
      $endgroup$
      – Gerry Myerson
      Jun 22 '14 at 23:08










    • $begingroup$
      Very well, I'll ask my question in a separate post. I "hid" it in a comment becouse of this thread.
      $endgroup$
      – Student
      Jun 23 '14 at 5:49










    • $begingroup$
      @Student - where did you asked the question? I can't find it! I had to asked again in math.stackexchange.com/questions/1700180/… but no answer yet (for such a widely used formula no proof!).
      $endgroup$
      – Liebe
      Mar 16 '16 at 14:42










    • $begingroup$
      I don't remember, but you can look through my questions, @Liebe.
      $endgroup$
      – Student
      Mar 18 '16 at 22:22



















    14












    $begingroup$

    The intuitive way to see this is to realize that "conjugation" in a permutation group is the same as "renaming". Take some permutation; conjugate it by (1 2), the permutation that swaps 1 and 2; what's the result? Calculate a few examples, and you'll see that the result is the same as the original permutation with 1 and 2 changing roles.



    Another good way to understand this is to separate the domains of the permutation and the conjugation. If $A$ is a set and $sigma$ is some permutation of the objects of $A$ (take $A={1,2,ldots, n}$ for example), imagine there's a new set $Z$ of the same cardinality as $A$ and a one-to-one, onto mapping $f:Zto A$. What is $f^{-1} sigma f$? It's a function on $Z$ which first maps everything to $A$, permutes according to $sigma$, and maps back along the same "mapping lines" as $f$. It should be relatively obvious that the result "does to $Z$ exactly what $sigma$ does to $A$". Again, working out a few small examples should help.



    So, conjugation in $S_n$ is the same thing only when $Z$ happens to be the same set as $A$; the "names" and the "objects" are one and the same.






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      2












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      Suppose $rho=pisigmapi^{-1}$, for any $min Z$,
      we have $rho^m=pisigma^mpi^{-1}$, i.e. $rho^mpi=pisigma^m$.
      For a cycle $(i,sigma(i),ldots,sigma^{r-1}(i))$, we have
      $$(pi(i),pisigma(i),ldots,pisigma^{r-1}(i))
      =(j,rho(j),ldots,rho^{r-1}(j))$$
      where $j=pi(i)$. This is intuitive, isn't it?






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        4 Answers
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        active

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        4 Answers
        4






        active

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        active

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        50












        $begingroup$

        It's much like with linear transformations: conjugating a matrix amounts to a "change of basis", a translation from one basis to another, but similar matrices still represent the same linear transformation.



        Conjugating by a permutation amounts to "translating" into new labels for the elements being permuted, so "similar permutations" (conjugate permutations) must represent the same underlying "shuffling" of the elements of the set, just under possibly different names.



        Formally: Suppose that $sigma$ and $tau$ are permutations.



        Claim. Let $rho = tausigmatau^{-1}$ (multiplication corresponding to composition of functions). If $sigma(i)=j$, then $rho(tau(i)) = tau(j)$. In particular, the cycle structure of $rho$ is the same as the cycle structure of $sigma$, replacing each entry $a$ with $tau(a)$.



        Proof. $rho(tau(i)) = tausigmatau^{-1}tau(i) = tausigma(i) = tau(j)$. QED.



        Conversely, suppose that $sigma$ and $rho$ have the same cycle structure. List the cycles of $sigma$ above the cycles of $rho$, aligning cycles of the same length with one another. Now interpret this as the two-line presentation of a permutation, and call it $tau$; then $tausigmatau^{-1}=rho$ by the claim.



        For example, if $sigma=(1,3,2,4)(5,6)$ and $rho=(5,2,3,1)(6,4)$, then write
        $$begin{array}{cccccc}
        1&3&2&4&5&6\
        5&2&3&1&6&4
        end{array}$$
        Then we let $tau$ be the permutation $1mapsto 5$, $3mapsto 2$, $2mapsto 3$, $4mapsto 1$, $5mapsto 6$, and $6mapsto 4$. Then by the claim above, $tausigmatau^{-1}=rho$. (Note. As Gerry Myerson notes, if we aren't working in all of $S_n$, we may not have $tau$ in whatever subgroup we happen to be working in; so there is an implicit assumption for the "if" part that we are working in $S_n$).






        share|cite|improve this answer











        $endgroup$


















          50












          $begingroup$

          It's much like with linear transformations: conjugating a matrix amounts to a "change of basis", a translation from one basis to another, but similar matrices still represent the same linear transformation.



          Conjugating by a permutation amounts to "translating" into new labels for the elements being permuted, so "similar permutations" (conjugate permutations) must represent the same underlying "shuffling" of the elements of the set, just under possibly different names.



          Formally: Suppose that $sigma$ and $tau$ are permutations.



          Claim. Let $rho = tausigmatau^{-1}$ (multiplication corresponding to composition of functions). If $sigma(i)=j$, then $rho(tau(i)) = tau(j)$. In particular, the cycle structure of $rho$ is the same as the cycle structure of $sigma$, replacing each entry $a$ with $tau(a)$.



          Proof. $rho(tau(i)) = tausigmatau^{-1}tau(i) = tausigma(i) = tau(j)$. QED.



          Conversely, suppose that $sigma$ and $rho$ have the same cycle structure. List the cycles of $sigma$ above the cycles of $rho$, aligning cycles of the same length with one another. Now interpret this as the two-line presentation of a permutation, and call it $tau$; then $tausigmatau^{-1}=rho$ by the claim.



          For example, if $sigma=(1,3,2,4)(5,6)$ and $rho=(5,2,3,1)(6,4)$, then write
          $$begin{array}{cccccc}
          1&3&2&4&5&6\
          5&2&3&1&6&4
          end{array}$$
          Then we let $tau$ be the permutation $1mapsto 5$, $3mapsto 2$, $2mapsto 3$, $4mapsto 1$, $5mapsto 6$, and $6mapsto 4$. Then by the claim above, $tausigmatau^{-1}=rho$. (Note. As Gerry Myerson notes, if we aren't working in all of $S_n$, we may not have $tau$ in whatever subgroup we happen to be working in; so there is an implicit assumption for the "if" part that we are working in $S_n$).






          share|cite|improve this answer











          $endgroup$
















            50












            50








            50





            $begingroup$

            It's much like with linear transformations: conjugating a matrix amounts to a "change of basis", a translation from one basis to another, but similar matrices still represent the same linear transformation.



            Conjugating by a permutation amounts to "translating" into new labels for the elements being permuted, so "similar permutations" (conjugate permutations) must represent the same underlying "shuffling" of the elements of the set, just under possibly different names.



            Formally: Suppose that $sigma$ and $tau$ are permutations.



            Claim. Let $rho = tausigmatau^{-1}$ (multiplication corresponding to composition of functions). If $sigma(i)=j$, then $rho(tau(i)) = tau(j)$. In particular, the cycle structure of $rho$ is the same as the cycle structure of $sigma$, replacing each entry $a$ with $tau(a)$.



            Proof. $rho(tau(i)) = tausigmatau^{-1}tau(i) = tausigma(i) = tau(j)$. QED.



            Conversely, suppose that $sigma$ and $rho$ have the same cycle structure. List the cycles of $sigma$ above the cycles of $rho$, aligning cycles of the same length with one another. Now interpret this as the two-line presentation of a permutation, and call it $tau$; then $tausigmatau^{-1}=rho$ by the claim.



            For example, if $sigma=(1,3,2,4)(5,6)$ and $rho=(5,2,3,1)(6,4)$, then write
            $$begin{array}{cccccc}
            1&3&2&4&5&6\
            5&2&3&1&6&4
            end{array}$$
            Then we let $tau$ be the permutation $1mapsto 5$, $3mapsto 2$, $2mapsto 3$, $4mapsto 1$, $5mapsto 6$, and $6mapsto 4$. Then by the claim above, $tausigmatau^{-1}=rho$. (Note. As Gerry Myerson notes, if we aren't working in all of $S_n$, we may not have $tau$ in whatever subgroup we happen to be working in; so there is an implicit assumption for the "if" part that we are working in $S_n$).






            share|cite|improve this answer











            $endgroup$



            It's much like with linear transformations: conjugating a matrix amounts to a "change of basis", a translation from one basis to another, but similar matrices still represent the same linear transformation.



            Conjugating by a permutation amounts to "translating" into new labels for the elements being permuted, so "similar permutations" (conjugate permutations) must represent the same underlying "shuffling" of the elements of the set, just under possibly different names.



            Formally: Suppose that $sigma$ and $tau$ are permutations.



            Claim. Let $rho = tausigmatau^{-1}$ (multiplication corresponding to composition of functions). If $sigma(i)=j$, then $rho(tau(i)) = tau(j)$. In particular, the cycle structure of $rho$ is the same as the cycle structure of $sigma$, replacing each entry $a$ with $tau(a)$.



            Proof. $rho(tau(i)) = tausigmatau^{-1}tau(i) = tausigma(i) = tau(j)$. QED.



            Conversely, suppose that $sigma$ and $rho$ have the same cycle structure. List the cycles of $sigma$ above the cycles of $rho$, aligning cycles of the same length with one another. Now interpret this as the two-line presentation of a permutation, and call it $tau$; then $tausigmatau^{-1}=rho$ by the claim.



            For example, if $sigma=(1,3,2,4)(5,6)$ and $rho=(5,2,3,1)(6,4)$, then write
            $$begin{array}{cccccc}
            1&3&2&4&5&6\
            5&2&3&1&6&4
            end{array}$$
            Then we let $tau$ be the permutation $1mapsto 5$, $3mapsto 2$, $2mapsto 3$, $4mapsto 1$, $5mapsto 6$, and $6mapsto 4$. Then by the claim above, $tausigmatau^{-1}=rho$. (Note. As Gerry Myerson notes, if we aren't working in all of $S_n$, we may not have $tau$ in whatever subgroup we happen to be working in; so there is an implicit assumption for the "if" part that we are working in $S_n$).







            share|cite|improve this answer














            share|cite|improve this answer



            share|cite|improve this answer








            edited Jun 28 '11 at 4:24

























            answered Jun 28 '11 at 4:03









            Arturo MagidinArturo Magidin

            261k33585906




            261k33585906























                22












                $begingroup$

                Warning: the permutations are conjugate $bf in S_n$ if they have the same cycle structure. This may not be true in subgroups of $S_n$. For example, $A_4$ is the alternating group on 4 symbols, it consists of the even permutations in $S_4$. The elements $(1 2 3)$ and $(1 3 2)$ of $A_4$ have the same cycle structure, but they are not conjugate in $A_4$. That is, there are elements $g$ in $S_4$ such that $g^{-1}(1 2 3)g=(1 3 2)$, but there is no such element in $A_4$.






                share|cite|improve this answer









                $endgroup$









                • 1




                  $begingroup$
                  Thank you for your answer, sir. How can we see that for a cycle we have the equation $r(i_1,i_2,dots,i_k)r^{−1}=(r(i_1),r(i_2),dots,r(i_k))$?
                  $endgroup$
                  – Student
                  Jun 22 '14 at 13:30








                • 1




                  $begingroup$
                  Why don't you post that as a question, instead of hiding it in a comment on an old answer?
                  $endgroup$
                  – Gerry Myerson
                  Jun 22 '14 at 23:08










                • $begingroup$
                  Very well, I'll ask my question in a separate post. I "hid" it in a comment becouse of this thread.
                  $endgroup$
                  – Student
                  Jun 23 '14 at 5:49










                • $begingroup$
                  @Student - where did you asked the question? I can't find it! I had to asked again in math.stackexchange.com/questions/1700180/… but no answer yet (for such a widely used formula no proof!).
                  $endgroup$
                  – Liebe
                  Mar 16 '16 at 14:42










                • $begingroup$
                  I don't remember, but you can look through my questions, @Liebe.
                  $endgroup$
                  – Student
                  Mar 18 '16 at 22:22
















                22












                $begingroup$

                Warning: the permutations are conjugate $bf in S_n$ if they have the same cycle structure. This may not be true in subgroups of $S_n$. For example, $A_4$ is the alternating group on 4 symbols, it consists of the even permutations in $S_4$. The elements $(1 2 3)$ and $(1 3 2)$ of $A_4$ have the same cycle structure, but they are not conjugate in $A_4$. That is, there are elements $g$ in $S_4$ such that $g^{-1}(1 2 3)g=(1 3 2)$, but there is no such element in $A_4$.






                share|cite|improve this answer









                $endgroup$









                • 1




                  $begingroup$
                  Thank you for your answer, sir. How can we see that for a cycle we have the equation $r(i_1,i_2,dots,i_k)r^{−1}=(r(i_1),r(i_2),dots,r(i_k))$?
                  $endgroup$
                  – Student
                  Jun 22 '14 at 13:30








                • 1




                  $begingroup$
                  Why don't you post that as a question, instead of hiding it in a comment on an old answer?
                  $endgroup$
                  – Gerry Myerson
                  Jun 22 '14 at 23:08










                • $begingroup$
                  Very well, I'll ask my question in a separate post. I "hid" it in a comment becouse of this thread.
                  $endgroup$
                  – Student
                  Jun 23 '14 at 5:49










                • $begingroup$
                  @Student - where did you asked the question? I can't find it! I had to asked again in math.stackexchange.com/questions/1700180/… but no answer yet (for such a widely used formula no proof!).
                  $endgroup$
                  – Liebe
                  Mar 16 '16 at 14:42










                • $begingroup$
                  I don't remember, but you can look through my questions, @Liebe.
                  $endgroup$
                  – Student
                  Mar 18 '16 at 22:22














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                22





                $begingroup$

                Warning: the permutations are conjugate $bf in S_n$ if they have the same cycle structure. This may not be true in subgroups of $S_n$. For example, $A_4$ is the alternating group on 4 symbols, it consists of the even permutations in $S_4$. The elements $(1 2 3)$ and $(1 3 2)$ of $A_4$ have the same cycle structure, but they are not conjugate in $A_4$. That is, there are elements $g$ in $S_4$ such that $g^{-1}(1 2 3)g=(1 3 2)$, but there is no such element in $A_4$.






                share|cite|improve this answer









                $endgroup$



                Warning: the permutations are conjugate $bf in S_n$ if they have the same cycle structure. This may not be true in subgroups of $S_n$. For example, $A_4$ is the alternating group on 4 symbols, it consists of the even permutations in $S_4$. The elements $(1 2 3)$ and $(1 3 2)$ of $A_4$ have the same cycle structure, but they are not conjugate in $A_4$. That is, there are elements $g$ in $S_4$ such that $g^{-1}(1 2 3)g=(1 3 2)$, but there is no such element in $A_4$.







                share|cite|improve this answer












                share|cite|improve this answer



                share|cite|improve this answer










                answered Jun 28 '11 at 4:20









                Gerry MyersonGerry Myerson

                146k8147299




                146k8147299








                • 1




                  $begingroup$
                  Thank you for your answer, sir. How can we see that for a cycle we have the equation $r(i_1,i_2,dots,i_k)r^{−1}=(r(i_1),r(i_2),dots,r(i_k))$?
                  $endgroup$
                  – Student
                  Jun 22 '14 at 13:30








                • 1




                  $begingroup$
                  Why don't you post that as a question, instead of hiding it in a comment on an old answer?
                  $endgroup$
                  – Gerry Myerson
                  Jun 22 '14 at 23:08










                • $begingroup$
                  Very well, I'll ask my question in a separate post. I "hid" it in a comment becouse of this thread.
                  $endgroup$
                  – Student
                  Jun 23 '14 at 5:49










                • $begingroup$
                  @Student - where did you asked the question? I can't find it! I had to asked again in math.stackexchange.com/questions/1700180/… but no answer yet (for such a widely used formula no proof!).
                  $endgroup$
                  – Liebe
                  Mar 16 '16 at 14:42










                • $begingroup$
                  I don't remember, but you can look through my questions, @Liebe.
                  $endgroup$
                  – Student
                  Mar 18 '16 at 22:22














                • 1




                  $begingroup$
                  Thank you for your answer, sir. How can we see that for a cycle we have the equation $r(i_1,i_2,dots,i_k)r^{−1}=(r(i_1),r(i_2),dots,r(i_k))$?
                  $endgroup$
                  – Student
                  Jun 22 '14 at 13:30








                • 1




                  $begingroup$
                  Why don't you post that as a question, instead of hiding it in a comment on an old answer?
                  $endgroup$
                  – Gerry Myerson
                  Jun 22 '14 at 23:08










                • $begingroup$
                  Very well, I'll ask my question in a separate post. I "hid" it in a comment becouse of this thread.
                  $endgroup$
                  – Student
                  Jun 23 '14 at 5:49










                • $begingroup$
                  @Student - where did you asked the question? I can't find it! I had to asked again in math.stackexchange.com/questions/1700180/… but no answer yet (for such a widely used formula no proof!).
                  $endgroup$
                  – Liebe
                  Mar 16 '16 at 14:42










                • $begingroup$
                  I don't remember, but you can look through my questions, @Liebe.
                  $endgroup$
                  – Student
                  Mar 18 '16 at 22:22








                1




                1




                $begingroup$
                Thank you for your answer, sir. How can we see that for a cycle we have the equation $r(i_1,i_2,dots,i_k)r^{−1}=(r(i_1),r(i_2),dots,r(i_k))$?
                $endgroup$
                – Student
                Jun 22 '14 at 13:30






                $begingroup$
                Thank you for your answer, sir. How can we see that for a cycle we have the equation $r(i_1,i_2,dots,i_k)r^{−1}=(r(i_1),r(i_2),dots,r(i_k))$?
                $endgroup$
                – Student
                Jun 22 '14 at 13:30






                1




                1




                $begingroup$
                Why don't you post that as a question, instead of hiding it in a comment on an old answer?
                $endgroup$
                – Gerry Myerson
                Jun 22 '14 at 23:08




                $begingroup$
                Why don't you post that as a question, instead of hiding it in a comment on an old answer?
                $endgroup$
                – Gerry Myerson
                Jun 22 '14 at 23:08












                $begingroup$
                Very well, I'll ask my question in a separate post. I "hid" it in a comment becouse of this thread.
                $endgroup$
                – Student
                Jun 23 '14 at 5:49




                $begingroup$
                Very well, I'll ask my question in a separate post. I "hid" it in a comment becouse of this thread.
                $endgroup$
                – Student
                Jun 23 '14 at 5:49












                $begingroup$
                @Student - where did you asked the question? I can't find it! I had to asked again in math.stackexchange.com/questions/1700180/… but no answer yet (for such a widely used formula no proof!).
                $endgroup$
                – Liebe
                Mar 16 '16 at 14:42




                $begingroup$
                @Student - where did you asked the question? I can't find it! I had to asked again in math.stackexchange.com/questions/1700180/… but no answer yet (for such a widely used formula no proof!).
                $endgroup$
                – Liebe
                Mar 16 '16 at 14:42












                $begingroup$
                I don't remember, but you can look through my questions, @Liebe.
                $endgroup$
                – Student
                Mar 18 '16 at 22:22




                $begingroup$
                I don't remember, but you can look through my questions, @Liebe.
                $endgroup$
                – Student
                Mar 18 '16 at 22:22











                14












                $begingroup$

                The intuitive way to see this is to realize that "conjugation" in a permutation group is the same as "renaming". Take some permutation; conjugate it by (1 2), the permutation that swaps 1 and 2; what's the result? Calculate a few examples, and you'll see that the result is the same as the original permutation with 1 and 2 changing roles.



                Another good way to understand this is to separate the domains of the permutation and the conjugation. If $A$ is a set and $sigma$ is some permutation of the objects of $A$ (take $A={1,2,ldots, n}$ for example), imagine there's a new set $Z$ of the same cardinality as $A$ and a one-to-one, onto mapping $f:Zto A$. What is $f^{-1} sigma f$? It's a function on $Z$ which first maps everything to $A$, permutes according to $sigma$, and maps back along the same "mapping lines" as $f$. It should be relatively obvious that the result "does to $Z$ exactly what $sigma$ does to $A$". Again, working out a few small examples should help.



                So, conjugation in $S_n$ is the same thing only when $Z$ happens to be the same set as $A$; the "names" and the "objects" are one and the same.






                share|cite|improve this answer









                $endgroup$


















                  14












                  $begingroup$

                  The intuitive way to see this is to realize that "conjugation" in a permutation group is the same as "renaming". Take some permutation; conjugate it by (1 2), the permutation that swaps 1 and 2; what's the result? Calculate a few examples, and you'll see that the result is the same as the original permutation with 1 and 2 changing roles.



                  Another good way to understand this is to separate the domains of the permutation and the conjugation. If $A$ is a set and $sigma$ is some permutation of the objects of $A$ (take $A={1,2,ldots, n}$ for example), imagine there's a new set $Z$ of the same cardinality as $A$ and a one-to-one, onto mapping $f:Zto A$. What is $f^{-1} sigma f$? It's a function on $Z$ which first maps everything to $A$, permutes according to $sigma$, and maps back along the same "mapping lines" as $f$. It should be relatively obvious that the result "does to $Z$ exactly what $sigma$ does to $A$". Again, working out a few small examples should help.



                  So, conjugation in $S_n$ is the same thing only when $Z$ happens to be the same set as $A$; the "names" and the "objects" are one and the same.






                  share|cite|improve this answer









                  $endgroup$
















                    14












                    14








                    14





                    $begingroup$

                    The intuitive way to see this is to realize that "conjugation" in a permutation group is the same as "renaming". Take some permutation; conjugate it by (1 2), the permutation that swaps 1 and 2; what's the result? Calculate a few examples, and you'll see that the result is the same as the original permutation with 1 and 2 changing roles.



                    Another good way to understand this is to separate the domains of the permutation and the conjugation. If $A$ is a set and $sigma$ is some permutation of the objects of $A$ (take $A={1,2,ldots, n}$ for example), imagine there's a new set $Z$ of the same cardinality as $A$ and a one-to-one, onto mapping $f:Zto A$. What is $f^{-1} sigma f$? It's a function on $Z$ which first maps everything to $A$, permutes according to $sigma$, and maps back along the same "mapping lines" as $f$. It should be relatively obvious that the result "does to $Z$ exactly what $sigma$ does to $A$". Again, working out a few small examples should help.



                    So, conjugation in $S_n$ is the same thing only when $Z$ happens to be the same set as $A$; the "names" and the "objects" are one and the same.






                    share|cite|improve this answer









                    $endgroup$



                    The intuitive way to see this is to realize that "conjugation" in a permutation group is the same as "renaming". Take some permutation; conjugate it by (1 2), the permutation that swaps 1 and 2; what's the result? Calculate a few examples, and you'll see that the result is the same as the original permutation with 1 and 2 changing roles.



                    Another good way to understand this is to separate the domains of the permutation and the conjugation. If $A$ is a set and $sigma$ is some permutation of the objects of $A$ (take $A={1,2,ldots, n}$ for example), imagine there's a new set $Z$ of the same cardinality as $A$ and a one-to-one, onto mapping $f:Zto A$. What is $f^{-1} sigma f$? It's a function on $Z$ which first maps everything to $A$, permutes according to $sigma$, and maps back along the same "mapping lines" as $f$. It should be relatively obvious that the result "does to $Z$ exactly what $sigma$ does to $A$". Again, working out a few small examples should help.



                    So, conjugation in $S_n$ is the same thing only when $Z$ happens to be the same set as $A$; the "names" and the "objects" are one and the same.







                    share|cite|improve this answer












                    share|cite|improve this answer



                    share|cite|improve this answer










                    answered Jun 28 '11 at 4:00









                    Alon AmitAlon Amit

                    10.6k3768




                    10.6k3768























                        2












                        $begingroup$

                        Suppose $rho=pisigmapi^{-1}$, for any $min Z$,
                        we have $rho^m=pisigma^mpi^{-1}$, i.e. $rho^mpi=pisigma^m$.
                        For a cycle $(i,sigma(i),ldots,sigma^{r-1}(i))$, we have
                        $$(pi(i),pisigma(i),ldots,pisigma^{r-1}(i))
                        =(j,rho(j),ldots,rho^{r-1}(j))$$
                        where $j=pi(i)$. This is intuitive, isn't it?






                        share|cite|improve this answer











                        $endgroup$


















                          2












                          $begingroup$

                          Suppose $rho=pisigmapi^{-1}$, for any $min Z$,
                          we have $rho^m=pisigma^mpi^{-1}$, i.e. $rho^mpi=pisigma^m$.
                          For a cycle $(i,sigma(i),ldots,sigma^{r-1}(i))$, we have
                          $$(pi(i),pisigma(i),ldots,pisigma^{r-1}(i))
                          =(j,rho(j),ldots,rho^{r-1}(j))$$
                          where $j=pi(i)$. This is intuitive, isn't it?






                          share|cite|improve this answer











                          $endgroup$
















                            2












                            2








                            2





                            $begingroup$

                            Suppose $rho=pisigmapi^{-1}$, for any $min Z$,
                            we have $rho^m=pisigma^mpi^{-1}$, i.e. $rho^mpi=pisigma^m$.
                            For a cycle $(i,sigma(i),ldots,sigma^{r-1}(i))$, we have
                            $$(pi(i),pisigma(i),ldots,pisigma^{r-1}(i))
                            =(j,rho(j),ldots,rho^{r-1}(j))$$
                            where $j=pi(i)$. This is intuitive, isn't it?






                            share|cite|improve this answer











                            $endgroup$



                            Suppose $rho=pisigmapi^{-1}$, for any $min Z$,
                            we have $rho^m=pisigma^mpi^{-1}$, i.e. $rho^mpi=pisigma^m$.
                            For a cycle $(i,sigma(i),ldots,sigma^{r-1}(i))$, we have
                            $$(pi(i),pisigma(i),ldots,pisigma^{r-1}(i))
                            =(j,rho(j),ldots,rho^{r-1}(j))$$
                            where $j=pi(i)$. This is intuitive, isn't it?







                            share|cite|improve this answer














                            share|cite|improve this answer



                            share|cite|improve this answer








                            edited Apr 26 '12 at 9:06









                            Martin Sleziak

                            44.7k8117272




                            44.7k8117272










                            answered Apr 25 '12 at 23:48









                            JoshiwaJoshiwa

                            291




                            291






























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