A critic made a comment that my female character sounds like she was written by a man
I'm a man. Working on my sci-fi novel. It's meant to be a light-hearted heist caper. My main character is a woman. She's a strong and sassy character based on the women in my life, and the story follows all the rules about writing strong female characters. There are no men to save her, and the antagonist in the story is another woman who is her exact opposite.
However because the character swears, makes pop culture references and sexually objectifies men, some critics have commented that this makes it seem that it's a female character being written by a man.
I'm sure I'm not the only person who has gotten this criticism. Any ideas on how to fix this?
characters gender
New contributor
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I'm a man. Working on my sci-fi novel. It's meant to be a light-hearted heist caper. My main character is a woman. She's a strong and sassy character based on the women in my life, and the story follows all the rules about writing strong female characters. There are no men to save her, and the antagonist in the story is another woman who is her exact opposite.
However because the character swears, makes pop culture references and sexually objectifies men, some critics have commented that this makes it seem that it's a female character being written by a man.
I'm sure I'm not the only person who has gotten this criticism. Any ideas on how to fix this?
characters gender
New contributor
24
"Any ideas how to fix this?" Yes. I suggest writing a new passage involving a new character who is genderless. Write out a day in the life of this person. Any time this character says or does a thing that feels gendered to you, make a note of how it feels (which gender) and remind yourself that the character has no gender. We have instincts for male/female--you have this instinct--find it and use it. Apply what you learn to your work. Secondly: Read comments on the internet from anonymous users. Do they sound male or female? Why? Figure it out. Find the cues.
– DPT
Jan 1 at 16:42
5
The character may be based on women you know, but the reader doesn't know that and assesses the character based on themselves and the women that THEY know. Your question require quite a bit of context to answer, like actually reading the piece, but off the cuff I'd say lighten up on or eliminate the sexual objectification of men. If there's no specific personality dynamic that is relevant to the character's arc that makes her want to talk or act like that, consider eliminating it.
– TheLeopard
2 days ago
8
It sounds like you might have written a female character with stereotypical male attributes, who behaves like a young man, but in a woman's body. It seems that it's a female character being written by a man, because it is. You don't have a woman's life experience. It's not possible for you to write like a woman does, and nor should you. A perceptive reader will be able to tell that you are male no matter what you do, and that is okay. I suggest to accept your character as it is, and try to write a richer or more authentic woman character next time. Maybe read more books written by women.
– Sam Watkins
2 days ago
24
Guess how many real women get "you're not feminine enough" in real life. It tells more about the critic than about you.
– Agent_L
2 days ago
3
@DPT Your comment sounds like an answer and I see absolutely nothing in the comment that is aimed at improving the question. I know I'm relatively new here but I have been corrected (and even have seen my comments deleted) for doing this. Is it different for those with high reputation? Just need a clarification here.
– Keeta
23 hours ago
|
show 12 more comments
I'm a man. Working on my sci-fi novel. It's meant to be a light-hearted heist caper. My main character is a woman. She's a strong and sassy character based on the women in my life, and the story follows all the rules about writing strong female characters. There are no men to save her, and the antagonist in the story is another woman who is her exact opposite.
However because the character swears, makes pop culture references and sexually objectifies men, some critics have commented that this makes it seem that it's a female character being written by a man.
I'm sure I'm not the only person who has gotten this criticism. Any ideas on how to fix this?
characters gender
New contributor
I'm a man. Working on my sci-fi novel. It's meant to be a light-hearted heist caper. My main character is a woman. She's a strong and sassy character based on the women in my life, and the story follows all the rules about writing strong female characters. There are no men to save her, and the antagonist in the story is another woman who is her exact opposite.
However because the character swears, makes pop culture references and sexually objectifies men, some critics have commented that this makes it seem that it's a female character being written by a man.
I'm sure I'm not the only person who has gotten this criticism. Any ideas on how to fix this?
characters gender
characters gender
New contributor
New contributor
edited Jan 1 at 16:30
Galastel
25.5k470138
25.5k470138
New contributor
asked Jan 1 at 5:01
Ty_xy
258124
258124
New contributor
New contributor
24
"Any ideas how to fix this?" Yes. I suggest writing a new passage involving a new character who is genderless. Write out a day in the life of this person. Any time this character says or does a thing that feels gendered to you, make a note of how it feels (which gender) and remind yourself that the character has no gender. We have instincts for male/female--you have this instinct--find it and use it. Apply what you learn to your work. Secondly: Read comments on the internet from anonymous users. Do they sound male or female? Why? Figure it out. Find the cues.
– DPT
Jan 1 at 16:42
5
The character may be based on women you know, but the reader doesn't know that and assesses the character based on themselves and the women that THEY know. Your question require quite a bit of context to answer, like actually reading the piece, but off the cuff I'd say lighten up on or eliminate the sexual objectification of men. If there's no specific personality dynamic that is relevant to the character's arc that makes her want to talk or act like that, consider eliminating it.
– TheLeopard
2 days ago
8
It sounds like you might have written a female character with stereotypical male attributes, who behaves like a young man, but in a woman's body. It seems that it's a female character being written by a man, because it is. You don't have a woman's life experience. It's not possible for you to write like a woman does, and nor should you. A perceptive reader will be able to tell that you are male no matter what you do, and that is okay. I suggest to accept your character as it is, and try to write a richer or more authentic woman character next time. Maybe read more books written by women.
– Sam Watkins
2 days ago
24
Guess how many real women get "you're not feminine enough" in real life. It tells more about the critic than about you.
– Agent_L
2 days ago
3
@DPT Your comment sounds like an answer and I see absolutely nothing in the comment that is aimed at improving the question. I know I'm relatively new here but I have been corrected (and even have seen my comments deleted) for doing this. Is it different for those with high reputation? Just need a clarification here.
– Keeta
23 hours ago
|
show 12 more comments
24
"Any ideas how to fix this?" Yes. I suggest writing a new passage involving a new character who is genderless. Write out a day in the life of this person. Any time this character says or does a thing that feels gendered to you, make a note of how it feels (which gender) and remind yourself that the character has no gender. We have instincts for male/female--you have this instinct--find it and use it. Apply what you learn to your work. Secondly: Read comments on the internet from anonymous users. Do they sound male or female? Why? Figure it out. Find the cues.
– DPT
Jan 1 at 16:42
5
The character may be based on women you know, but the reader doesn't know that and assesses the character based on themselves and the women that THEY know. Your question require quite a bit of context to answer, like actually reading the piece, but off the cuff I'd say lighten up on or eliminate the sexual objectification of men. If there's no specific personality dynamic that is relevant to the character's arc that makes her want to talk or act like that, consider eliminating it.
– TheLeopard
2 days ago
8
It sounds like you might have written a female character with stereotypical male attributes, who behaves like a young man, but in a woman's body. It seems that it's a female character being written by a man, because it is. You don't have a woman's life experience. It's not possible for you to write like a woman does, and nor should you. A perceptive reader will be able to tell that you are male no matter what you do, and that is okay. I suggest to accept your character as it is, and try to write a richer or more authentic woman character next time. Maybe read more books written by women.
– Sam Watkins
2 days ago
24
Guess how many real women get "you're not feminine enough" in real life. It tells more about the critic than about you.
– Agent_L
2 days ago
3
@DPT Your comment sounds like an answer and I see absolutely nothing in the comment that is aimed at improving the question. I know I'm relatively new here but I have been corrected (and even have seen my comments deleted) for doing this. Is it different for those with high reputation? Just need a clarification here.
– Keeta
23 hours ago
24
24
"Any ideas how to fix this?" Yes. I suggest writing a new passage involving a new character who is genderless. Write out a day in the life of this person. Any time this character says or does a thing that feels gendered to you, make a note of how it feels (which gender) and remind yourself that the character has no gender. We have instincts for male/female--you have this instinct--find it and use it. Apply what you learn to your work. Secondly: Read comments on the internet from anonymous users. Do they sound male or female? Why? Figure it out. Find the cues.
– DPT
Jan 1 at 16:42
"Any ideas how to fix this?" Yes. I suggest writing a new passage involving a new character who is genderless. Write out a day in the life of this person. Any time this character says or does a thing that feels gendered to you, make a note of how it feels (which gender) and remind yourself that the character has no gender. We have instincts for male/female--you have this instinct--find it and use it. Apply what you learn to your work. Secondly: Read comments on the internet from anonymous users. Do they sound male or female? Why? Figure it out. Find the cues.
– DPT
Jan 1 at 16:42
5
5
The character may be based on women you know, but the reader doesn't know that and assesses the character based on themselves and the women that THEY know. Your question require quite a bit of context to answer, like actually reading the piece, but off the cuff I'd say lighten up on or eliminate the sexual objectification of men. If there's no specific personality dynamic that is relevant to the character's arc that makes her want to talk or act like that, consider eliminating it.
– TheLeopard
2 days ago
The character may be based on women you know, but the reader doesn't know that and assesses the character based on themselves and the women that THEY know. Your question require quite a bit of context to answer, like actually reading the piece, but off the cuff I'd say lighten up on or eliminate the sexual objectification of men. If there's no specific personality dynamic that is relevant to the character's arc that makes her want to talk or act like that, consider eliminating it.
– TheLeopard
2 days ago
8
8
It sounds like you might have written a female character with stereotypical male attributes, who behaves like a young man, but in a woman's body. It seems that it's a female character being written by a man, because it is. You don't have a woman's life experience. It's not possible for you to write like a woman does, and nor should you. A perceptive reader will be able to tell that you are male no matter what you do, and that is okay. I suggest to accept your character as it is, and try to write a richer or more authentic woman character next time. Maybe read more books written by women.
– Sam Watkins
2 days ago
It sounds like you might have written a female character with stereotypical male attributes, who behaves like a young man, but in a woman's body. It seems that it's a female character being written by a man, because it is. You don't have a woman's life experience. It's not possible for you to write like a woman does, and nor should you. A perceptive reader will be able to tell that you are male no matter what you do, and that is okay. I suggest to accept your character as it is, and try to write a richer or more authentic woman character next time. Maybe read more books written by women.
– Sam Watkins
2 days ago
24
24
Guess how many real women get "you're not feminine enough" in real life. It tells more about the critic than about you.
– Agent_L
2 days ago
Guess how many real women get "you're not feminine enough" in real life. It tells more about the critic than about you.
– Agent_L
2 days ago
3
3
@DPT Your comment sounds like an answer and I see absolutely nothing in the comment that is aimed at improving the question. I know I'm relatively new here but I have been corrected (and even have seen my comments deleted) for doing this. Is it different for those with high reputation? Just need a clarification here.
– Keeta
23 hours ago
@DPT Your comment sounds like an answer and I see absolutely nothing in the comment that is aimed at improving the question. I know I'm relatively new here but I have been corrected (and even have seen my comments deleted) for doing this. Is it different for those with high reputation? Just need a clarification here.
– Keeta
23 hours ago
|
show 12 more comments
11 Answers
11
active
oldest
votes
TL;DR: Try submitting with a female pen name. If the criticism goes away, there's your answer.
This is your character and you need not bow to anybody's tropes or nuances, or notions of how or why a female is. Justify your character's actions, outlook, language, interests with sources from within your character. Formative influences from youth and later on have their place, but those go into the character, not onto the page as such. As a reader, I do not so much care what happened to your character EXCEPT as far as it helps me to understand her.
So your character herself is the seat of anything she does, and your job as the author is to selectively show the reader what makes your character tick. I dated a girl who was a sysad on a university VAX system, she ran cross-country, she climbed mountains (for fun! -- ugh!), and she knew all about the music scene, criticized movies from a logic and plot point of view, and so forth. She was all woman, too.
Make your character live! Write her in your chosen voice, and keep working on things that you agree need working on. Don't take any "you write this female like a man would" criticism unless you can source it from a blind test.
In my own creative writing classes (long ago), we had a great demonstration of the frailty of most peoples' sense of the sex of the writer through anonymous submissions. It was revealing.
Finally, even when I do think that I can tell that an author is a man or a woman, it doesn't so much come across in the way the characters stick to sex-based roles, but in the overall writing. Yet only rarely do I get a chance to really blind test this, so YMMV.
You know your character better than anybody. Make this character work on her own ground, for who she is, and keep in mind that even the most perfect author (me., no doubt) still has to lump some criticism. Write to please a committee, and your voice will not be heard.
6
I'm a big believer in being true to your own voice and characters, but unless the OP is writing solely for his own enjoyment, I'm not convinced "ignore all criticism" is great advice. And even your "blind test" is flawed --people tend to reserve criticism when they perceive the source as authoritative. But if the authority is faked, legitimate criticisms may be suppressed.
– Chris Sunami
yesterday
4
Brother, if I had said what you think I said, I would agree with you completely. Perhaps I could have been moire clear --- I do not mean to say "ignore all criticism", but to say that the burden remains on the OP to make the character work. If something is not working, that's his problem. I am just not convinced that the specific criticism he has received, and the implied (in the criticism) or explicit (in answers here) remedies are necessarily the right thing. I think that the OP is better served by using the criticism to sharpen his own game rather than play at somebody else's.
– Haakon Dahl
12 hours ago
3
I wonder if another critics will come up with "your main female character sounds like she was written by a lesbian"...
– Evargalo
10 hours ago
2
The "submit under a different pen name" works wonders. I've written a short story about an amazon-like barbarian female, and I included some erotic overtones to it. I submitted it to my reading circle for appraisal. I was utterly destroyed for trying to write things relating to the "female way of thinking about sexuality". My SO submitted my story as hers to another circle, and she was praised by her courage in showing off how females feel regarding sexuality in a sincere way. This really rubbed me in the wrong way for quite a while.
– T. Sar
7 hours ago
2
@T.Sar This backs up that white mid-aged healthy single man has only one priviledge:To be accused of/mocked for anything without any right of defense...
– Crowley
6 hours ago
|
show 5 more comments
There appears to be a difference in how men and women speak and write.
Linguists have found that writing by women is more "involved", while writing by men is more "informational". For example, women use more pronouns, men use more noun specifiers. Women use "the" differently than men. If you are interested in learning about male versus female linguistic styles, you can research this.
What is important is that you need to recognize that your protagonist doesn't sound like a man because of what she says alone, but also because of how she says it, and because of how you write the non-dialogue narrative of her thoughts, emotions, and perceptions. You write like a man, and therefore if you write a female charater's first person perspective, she sounds like a man.
As a solution I would recommend that you look at similar characters (the female marine/female engineer/tough girl) written by female authors and try to emulate their language.
Most authors are imprisoned in their own personal style, and experimenting with writing in the style of another author is a great exercise to make your own writing more flexible and to raise your awareness of the subliminal messages of your personal use of language. In this case, you unwittingly communicate "I'm a man". So learn to control that aspect of your writing by analysing and trying the styles of female authors.
12
While I think this is true, I also believe there's considerable overlap. For instance, in this paper, an automated algorithm achieved an accuracy of almost 80%, which is fairly impressive but still implies 20% of works were being characterized incorrectly. Humans seem to be a bit worse, as this study suggests . Speaking anecdotally, I've often seen people incorrectly guessing poster's genders online (usually assuming them to be male).
– Obie 2.0
2 days ago
6
@Obie2.0 The studies you cite used formal writing (with a prescribed format and style) or tweets as sample texts (with a maximum of 140 characters). Both extreme brevity and formal rules will suppress gender markers. In another study, using informal communication, it was possible to successfully classify the participants by gender with 91.4% accuracy. Another study achieved an accuracy of 97%. I know of no study using novels.
– user57423
2 days ago
6
@Obie2.0 90% accuracy in literary writing.
– user57423
2 days ago
Interesting research. I definitely agree about brevity and structure. I think it's worth keeping in mind some of the limitations of those higher accuracy rates, though. To be specific, if I'm not misunderstanding the study, that impressive figure of 97% actually came from selecting a set of predictors that maximized accuracy on the given dataset, but might not have achieved that level of performance on a larger set of texts.
– Obie 2.0
yesterday
I think the first study is most relevant, since it uses human raters, and the question and answers are most concerned about how human readers will assess a text, as opposed to automated tools. I'm not sure whether you have access to the full text, since the number of 91.4% is in the abstract, but looking at the body of the paper, that seems to refer to the predictive power of their model.
– Obie 2.0
yesterday
|
show 2 more comments
This critique is always complicated because of how nuanced gender actually is.
This is actually a frequent problem with male authors. We tend to have experience and methods of thinking that are typically considered "masculine" and take them as the baseline.
This does not mean, whatsoever, that your MC should spend time sitting in her cabin painting her nails (or that she shouldn't, if that matches her character). It does mean that you might want to think more about what it actually means to be a woman in this setting.
How would she have been raised? How would gender impact her treatment by other characters? Would she be as likely to opt for violence to resolve disputes? And if so, what form does her violence take?
One of my characters is similar to the "badass" women tropes, but with a few key considerations.
Firstly, she can only occupy this position because she has the backing of powerful, local, political figures. Without the sanction this power structure, she would have long ago been murdered or married off. Her ability to approximate this trope is a function of privilege, and she spends a decent character arc understanding how even her oppression doesn't compare to that of other women in her setting, and figuring out what this means for herself and the world around her.
Secondly, she inhabits this role because she was born into a social class defined by the use of violence. She is adopting a masculine social function because the alternative is even worse to her, and she has no other options.
Thirdly, she has no magic in a magical world. She cannot rely on being as fast, strong and durable as her adversaries. Her utility involves leadership abilities such as tactical planning that makes her simultaneously invaluable and builds social capital for her. She makes herself socially invaluable and financially lucrative.
Fourth, she is functionally suicidal. Because of the above, every conflict is a potential death sentence. She relies on her squad to survive and throws herself into situations more daring than what most sane people would consider. This builds further social capital because she's not only the most talented leader, but her death-drive is mistaken for bravery, and results in shocking and unique maneuvers.
Fifth, she is %<#]@*= terrifying. When she engages in conflict she must be as brutal and horrifying as-is humanly possible. She depends on reputation to avoid conflict. She depends on her persona to maintain the social capital that keeps her free and safe(r). And every conflict is for all-the-stakes. There are no second chances. She is small, and relatively weak, without any fancy magical power to save her. She wins, every time, or she's dead. So when she comes, she brings everything to the table.
Sixth, she has a macabre, black, and biting sense of humor. People from oppressed demographics or upbringingings often do. Its a tool that (we) use to remain sane, and to fight in contexts when we don't have the power to directly engage people higher on the social totem pole. It's also born of a deeply fatalistic worldview, given her omnipresent threat of death.
Seventh, when she can't avoid conflict, and she can't bluster her way out of it, and she can't plan ahead or end it quickly, all of this influences how she approaches violence. Namely, at a distance. Using the great equalizer: technology. If you see her, or are within arms reach, its because she screwed up. She'd much rather punch holes in you at half a kilometer away.
So.
All of this is to say that I started from context and then built a character around the setting. This person could not exist as a man.
Her twin brother is completely different, and is (actually) the local political power that allows her to operate. Everything about how they engage with their world would change if their assigned gender changed. I didn't start with the idea for a wisecracking pistolero, who hides some serious trauma with a black sense of humor.
I started with a person in a specific context and thought: "How could a person with these demographic traits survive? What are the likely outcomes given these constraints?"
And then I got a character. If you're starting with a template, throw it out, and ask yourself why you made the person you made.
Let them grow and reveal themselves to you.
And, it's important to note that this is only one of multiple core female characters. My MC is totally different, and has a son that infinitely complicates her decisionmaking.
So it also matters what the different visions of femininity look like in your art. Without internal diversity, the piece will always feel like it lacks authenticity.
2
Where can we read this work?
– KalleMP
yesterday
1
What a great way to advertise your own work without realizing it. ;)
– noClue
yesterday
It's only half done :-) a round of edits and 40k words to go
– user49466
yesterday
add a comment |
There is a certain social image of what being a woman "means" - there are expectations both of how a woman would act, and how a woman would be treated. A particular female character is bound to engage with that image, whether she accepts it, rejects it, does something else with it. You, as a writer, cannot simply ignore that image - the image is already in the reader's mind.
What does that mean?
Before you write a particular female character, consider women's place in general in your world. Are they limited in any way by society? Are they the group that rules? Is there truly no difference between men and women in how they are treated, in what options are open to them, in what is expected of them?
Next, what character traits are considered "positive" in your world? Violence or diplomacy? Individualism or or social harmony?
You have assigned to your character behaviours that are in our world considered typically male, and typically "better", "stronger". You have sort of subconsciously decided that "strong" female character means "character who exhibits typically male behaviours", and you do not engage with that idea in any way.
Compare that to @user49466's example: the character's behaviour is understood as "typically masculine" within her society, her behaviour is compelled by the realities of her world.
There are other ways your character can engage the reader's expectations: the character's behaviour might lead to negative results, presenting "typically male" behaviours as weaker than "typically female" behaviours, whether exhibited by a male or a female character. The character might acknowledge the fact that she is very macho-man - whether this behaviour is compelled, or she just likes it that way.
There is also the way society treats your character: is she considered "stronger" because she is "manly"? Is she treated negatively because she's "not feminine"? Or are women like her as common as men like her, behaviour no longer being "typically male" or "typically female"?
There are many ways in which you can engage the gender expectations. Writing under the subconscious assumption that "strong" universally equals "manly" doesn't engage those expectations at all, instead very much intrinsically accepting them, for both men and women. Which, I guess, would be why your critic made the comment he did.
add a comment |
As a male writer who's had female protagonists, and plenty of female characters regardless of the protagonist's gender, I've not been told a female sounded like a man wrote her, but I have been told one could easily have been male, and that speaks to many of the same concerns. There were two main issues I had to fix in that instance.
Firstly, her traits were perhaps characteristic more of males than females, insofar as they were gendered at all. I usually write characters without trying to choose gendered traits for them - in this example, she was a young genius with a scarring past and dark streak - but that's not always a good thing. (I think it mostly is, though; it results in a work that needs tweaking after beta reader feedback, but so does anything.) Just to give some examples:
- She made two comments about masturbation. The first was her refusal to describe her cousin's beauty in detail, in case a reader fantasised because of it. The second was a clarification a phrase of hers didn't have risqué intent, as a reader might have thought it did if they'd noticed an extremely subtle but unintended pun. I deleted the first because, as part of other improvements based on feedback, I did include a description of the cousin anyway. This is because one of the main ways gender would affect my protagonist is her awkward relationship with that cousin, whose response to gender roles is more affected by puberty. As for the second, I kept it (albeit with a slight edit) because it underscores the character's ability to out-think most readers.
- She doesn't focus on being girly. A reader wondered whether she giggles, and what she thinks of make-up. I ultimately worked into the character's description of her cousin signs of envying her more straightforward femininity, which she mostly wraps in a transparent criticism of the effort.
Secondly, she didn't sufficiently address the consequences for her of being female in her society (the contemporary US). Ultimately, the problem women face is that people underestimate them. (You're welcome to dream up a fictional world where this isn't the case, but there are bound to be characters that would be underestimated, so it switches the question to how to write group X properly.) How should you, as a writer, make sure it's obvious a character endures this and understands that they do? I can't answer, because it depends on the character. In my case, she'd see it as a make-lemonade-from-lemons situation: if people underestimate her, she'll take advantage of that to trick them. That's the kind of person she is, someone who thinks her brain's job is to control people, not to show off all the maths she can do. I guess what I'm saying is: find what facts about your character reflect her reaction to being a woman. Her reaction, not that of the male writer who created her, but also created the world that makes her who she is.
add a comment |
Slightly different angle from other answers...
"However because the character swears, makes pop culture references and sexually objectifies men, some critics have commented that this makes it seem that it's a female character being written by a man."
There is (to me) some kind of logical disconnect between "the character swears, makes pop culture references and sexually objectifies men" (i.e. the character behaves in a somewhat "unlady-like" fashion) and "it's a female character being written by a man".
As a somewhat "unlady-like" person myself, I don't see anything particularly problematic about the character's behaviour (sounds perfectly believable and relatable).
However, "female character being written by a man" evokes cringe-worthy memories of:
"strong" female characters who for no particular reason opt for absurdly impractical outfits (high heels, maximum skin exposure, etc.), and can't seem to keep their clothes on for more than 5 minutes (or, in a slightly tamer version, have the narrative camera longingly lingers on all their fully-clothed lady-bits at every opportunity)
awkwardly inaccurate depictions of basic female body functions (periods, pregnancy, child birth, etc?), and/or failure to take these into account plot-wise (e.g. unsafe sex has no consequences, not even at a psychological level, e.g. fear of unwanted pregnancy)
Sanity check: are you 100% sure the criticism is really due to the character's laddish behaviour (in which case, whatever...), and not to some of the above narrative mishaps?
I.e. how does your male gaze affect the way you talk about her female body? Does your attraction and/or lack of first-hand experience show somehow? (and if so, how much?). Conversely, maybe, being a true gentleman (and/or out of "paternal" love), your writing cautiously glosses over the fact your "female" character actually comes with a female body?
And if so, in either case... does it matter? (partly depends on the intended audience, I guess?)
Perhaps simply check how often her body is mentionned, and how? (is the reference more sexual, focusing on attractiveness, or practical? E.g. basic issues like pain, hunger, tiredness, physical comfort, etc.)
There's no clear-cut right or wrong, but you need to find a balance somewhere. In my (entirely subjective) opinion, a bit of objectification is not necessarily bad, as long as the overall humaness prevails in the end. You can contrast the two for comedic effect. E.g. sexy outfits are far less glamorous if you mention all the pre-requisite grooming involved, the subsequent blisters, etc. You can also contrast appearances and societal expectations with inner thought process. E.g. she normally prefers practical clothing, but may occasionally opt for a sexy outfit as a tactical decision (worn as "camouflage" to infiltrate a social event). You can alternate between external perspective ("phwoar!") and internal perspective (rational behind the decision, preparation required, etc.) for a well-rounded overall impression (making the gender of the author harder to guess, or at least less relevant).
More generally, alternating between different viewpoints in your narration (internal, external, through the eyes of different characters, omniscient, etc.) may help divert the reader's attention from you (the male author).
Finally... If your character's personality really is the main issue(?) here, maybe you can incorporate some of that criticism in your writing (have other characters, e.g. the antagonist, comment on her unlady-like behaviour), to show that you are aware it goes against certain societal expectations (you can also turn it on its head and make such "unlady-like behaviour" completely normal and expected in your story's setting, and paint the criticism as hopelessly old-fashioned...)
New contributor
+1 Wish I could upvote it twice!
– Sara Costa
23 hours ago
add a comment |
Get some trusted female beta readers and listen to their advice. As a male reader of fiction, I've read books by otherwise good female writers where the male characters didn't come across as authentically male, and it definitely lessened my enjoyment of those books.
I'm sure the problem is many times worse from the other side, since women are encouraged to see things from a male point of view more often than the reverse.
While your female character may not fall prey to stereotypes, she still might be mostly your fantasy of a strong woman.
add a comment |
A useful example to consider is the case of James Tiptree, Jr, the pen name of Alice Sheldon. She wrote her stories (especially the earlier ones) from a male viewpoint, and the impersonation was so successful that Robert Silverberg referred to the theory that Tiptree was a woman as "absurd", and no less an author than Ursula LeGuin refused a contribution to an anthology on the basis that contribution was restricted to women (this was in the relatively early days of feminism).
Judgement of authorial gender is (or can be) an exceedingly tricky business. In large part, it requires playing to the preconceptions of the audience. Sometimes you can get away with putting your character into situations where "acting like a man" is the only way to survive. Soldiering/combat is probably the best example of this. The required characteristics - aggression, unflinching toughness and apparent disconnection from emotions are all survival traits under this sort of stress, so it's easier to accept this sort of behavior.
Outside of these situations, you're in muddy waters. The best advice I can give is to read widely, observe people in everyday interactions (so far as they relate to your proposed story), and think very hard about what you've seen. In general (at least in our culture) women tend to be more passive, less overtly agressive, more socially active/involved, and more concerned with emotion/feelings than men. To do otherwise is to be accused of "acting like a man". And actually acting like a man will, in many circles, get a woman labelled a bitch.
Of course, delineating these differences can be tricky, too. There is an underlying behavioral/emotional/sociological thread which, if violated, will make your writing ring false. Worse, this thread is not constant among all readers. Compare the behavior of most women nowadays with that recommended in the book "The Rules", which was very popular 20 years ago.
Good luck.
New contributor
It's funny, because I read the book in which Silverberg says being a woman is ridiculous (because of the military knowledge the author displays) and every story screamed to me that it was written by a woman. The way relationships, dialogue, and inner thoughts ran, the attitudes to sex, all of it. As soon as I finished the book I headed to Wikipedia and was not surprised at all to discover I was right and Silverberg was wrong.
– Kate Gregory
yesterday
@KateGregory - You are dealing with an issue while ignoring 50 years of extraordinary cultural change. If you're interested, you should read "Her Smoke Rose Up Forever", a biography of Alice Sheldon/James Tiptree Jr. At the time, her acceptance of the strength of the male sex drive and its connection to aggression were unique and overwhelming. It grieves me to say it, but you should take a Women's Studies history course. Such a course has its own (severe ideological) distortions, but nowadays its about the only place you'll find a frank discussion of the cultural differences of the time.
– WhatRoughBeast
yesterday
I am well aware of all that. That was in fact my point. That at the time everyone could be so sure the author had to be a man, and now it's so obvious that the author was a woman. So much changed in between.
– Kate Gregory
yesterday
add a comment |
It's a real thing, but it may not be 100% language. I know a young woman who writes her men like girls.
General leanings which don't have to be adhered to but you do need to understand them:
Women tend to be more empathetical and less up-front aggressive.
Their antagonism is often plotted and discussed rather than flare-up "OY! You Slag!" sort of thing.
They will defend home base much more strongly than men who tend to go on expeditions and attack.
Women are typically more cautious as everyday life experience as 'underdogs' means 'a woman who stands her ground' is developed by others as 'stroppy bitch' and isn't productive.
The immediate answer to your question is to ask your readers for why they think she is male.
New contributor
"...why they think she is male." They think she is a female written by a male. Not sure if this is the same thing like thinking she is male (oxymoron?).
– Trilarion
2 days ago
add a comment |
Why would you want to "fix it"? The critique is absurd. If the only way to write literature would be to create female characters that MUST sound like if they were written by a woman, or male characters that MUST sound like if they were written by a man, it would be a damn shame for literature itself, since so many nuanced characters would be lost by the constant policing on how a male and female should sound in the text.
Is also a non-sensical critique, because it comes from the notion that there are only certain ways a person of a given gender can be... why on earth would we only want to read what is considered to be by certain critics a "truly whatever-gender-form" character?
All you need to worry about is if the character has true depth, if the storyline is well developed and if your story overall has a better than average artistic quality.
New contributor
2
While I like the general idea of this answer, I think that it overshoots a bit, especially when telling the asker what to worry about. He may just be worried about the potential impact of this work.
– Trilarion
2 days ago
add a comment |
Why are you considering letting others’ opinions dictate or influence YOUR story in the first place? Write whatever you want otherwise you will come across as pandering and complacent.
New contributor
7
My observation is that many authors care about the opinion of their readers. This answer is a bit skinny and may better be a comment.
– Trilarion
2 days ago
There are plenty of existing answers to the effect of "you don't need to fix it", and this doesn't add anything to them.
– F1Krazy
2 days ago
1
This does not provide an answer to the question. Once you have sufficient reputation you will be able to comment on any post; instead, provide answers that don't require clarification from the asker. - From Review
– Cyn
2 days ago
add a comment |
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TL;DR: Try submitting with a female pen name. If the criticism goes away, there's your answer.
This is your character and you need not bow to anybody's tropes or nuances, or notions of how or why a female is. Justify your character's actions, outlook, language, interests with sources from within your character. Formative influences from youth and later on have their place, but those go into the character, not onto the page as such. As a reader, I do not so much care what happened to your character EXCEPT as far as it helps me to understand her.
So your character herself is the seat of anything she does, and your job as the author is to selectively show the reader what makes your character tick. I dated a girl who was a sysad on a university VAX system, she ran cross-country, she climbed mountains (for fun! -- ugh!), and she knew all about the music scene, criticized movies from a logic and plot point of view, and so forth. She was all woman, too.
Make your character live! Write her in your chosen voice, and keep working on things that you agree need working on. Don't take any "you write this female like a man would" criticism unless you can source it from a blind test.
In my own creative writing classes (long ago), we had a great demonstration of the frailty of most peoples' sense of the sex of the writer through anonymous submissions. It was revealing.
Finally, even when I do think that I can tell that an author is a man or a woman, it doesn't so much come across in the way the characters stick to sex-based roles, but in the overall writing. Yet only rarely do I get a chance to really blind test this, so YMMV.
You know your character better than anybody. Make this character work on her own ground, for who she is, and keep in mind that even the most perfect author (me., no doubt) still has to lump some criticism. Write to please a committee, and your voice will not be heard.
6
I'm a big believer in being true to your own voice and characters, but unless the OP is writing solely for his own enjoyment, I'm not convinced "ignore all criticism" is great advice. And even your "blind test" is flawed --people tend to reserve criticism when they perceive the source as authoritative. But if the authority is faked, legitimate criticisms may be suppressed.
– Chris Sunami
yesterday
4
Brother, if I had said what you think I said, I would agree with you completely. Perhaps I could have been moire clear --- I do not mean to say "ignore all criticism", but to say that the burden remains on the OP to make the character work. If something is not working, that's his problem. I am just not convinced that the specific criticism he has received, and the implied (in the criticism) or explicit (in answers here) remedies are necessarily the right thing. I think that the OP is better served by using the criticism to sharpen his own game rather than play at somebody else's.
– Haakon Dahl
12 hours ago
3
I wonder if another critics will come up with "your main female character sounds like she was written by a lesbian"...
– Evargalo
10 hours ago
2
The "submit under a different pen name" works wonders. I've written a short story about an amazon-like barbarian female, and I included some erotic overtones to it. I submitted it to my reading circle for appraisal. I was utterly destroyed for trying to write things relating to the "female way of thinking about sexuality". My SO submitted my story as hers to another circle, and she was praised by her courage in showing off how females feel regarding sexuality in a sincere way. This really rubbed me in the wrong way for quite a while.
– T. Sar
7 hours ago
2
@T.Sar This backs up that white mid-aged healthy single man has only one priviledge:To be accused of/mocked for anything without any right of defense...
– Crowley
6 hours ago
|
show 5 more comments
TL;DR: Try submitting with a female pen name. If the criticism goes away, there's your answer.
This is your character and you need not bow to anybody's tropes or nuances, or notions of how or why a female is. Justify your character's actions, outlook, language, interests with sources from within your character. Formative influences from youth and later on have their place, but those go into the character, not onto the page as such. As a reader, I do not so much care what happened to your character EXCEPT as far as it helps me to understand her.
So your character herself is the seat of anything she does, and your job as the author is to selectively show the reader what makes your character tick. I dated a girl who was a sysad on a university VAX system, she ran cross-country, she climbed mountains (for fun! -- ugh!), and she knew all about the music scene, criticized movies from a logic and plot point of view, and so forth. She was all woman, too.
Make your character live! Write her in your chosen voice, and keep working on things that you agree need working on. Don't take any "you write this female like a man would" criticism unless you can source it from a blind test.
In my own creative writing classes (long ago), we had a great demonstration of the frailty of most peoples' sense of the sex of the writer through anonymous submissions. It was revealing.
Finally, even when I do think that I can tell that an author is a man or a woman, it doesn't so much come across in the way the characters stick to sex-based roles, but in the overall writing. Yet only rarely do I get a chance to really blind test this, so YMMV.
You know your character better than anybody. Make this character work on her own ground, for who she is, and keep in mind that even the most perfect author (me., no doubt) still has to lump some criticism. Write to please a committee, and your voice will not be heard.
6
I'm a big believer in being true to your own voice and characters, but unless the OP is writing solely for his own enjoyment, I'm not convinced "ignore all criticism" is great advice. And even your "blind test" is flawed --people tend to reserve criticism when they perceive the source as authoritative. But if the authority is faked, legitimate criticisms may be suppressed.
– Chris Sunami
yesterday
4
Brother, if I had said what you think I said, I would agree with you completely. Perhaps I could have been moire clear --- I do not mean to say "ignore all criticism", but to say that the burden remains on the OP to make the character work. If something is not working, that's his problem. I am just not convinced that the specific criticism he has received, and the implied (in the criticism) or explicit (in answers here) remedies are necessarily the right thing. I think that the OP is better served by using the criticism to sharpen his own game rather than play at somebody else's.
– Haakon Dahl
12 hours ago
3
I wonder if another critics will come up with "your main female character sounds like she was written by a lesbian"...
– Evargalo
10 hours ago
2
The "submit under a different pen name" works wonders. I've written a short story about an amazon-like barbarian female, and I included some erotic overtones to it. I submitted it to my reading circle for appraisal. I was utterly destroyed for trying to write things relating to the "female way of thinking about sexuality". My SO submitted my story as hers to another circle, and she was praised by her courage in showing off how females feel regarding sexuality in a sincere way. This really rubbed me in the wrong way for quite a while.
– T. Sar
7 hours ago
2
@T.Sar This backs up that white mid-aged healthy single man has only one priviledge:To be accused of/mocked for anything without any right of defense...
– Crowley
6 hours ago
|
show 5 more comments
TL;DR: Try submitting with a female pen name. If the criticism goes away, there's your answer.
This is your character and you need not bow to anybody's tropes or nuances, or notions of how or why a female is. Justify your character's actions, outlook, language, interests with sources from within your character. Formative influences from youth and later on have their place, but those go into the character, not onto the page as such. As a reader, I do not so much care what happened to your character EXCEPT as far as it helps me to understand her.
So your character herself is the seat of anything she does, and your job as the author is to selectively show the reader what makes your character tick. I dated a girl who was a sysad on a university VAX system, she ran cross-country, she climbed mountains (for fun! -- ugh!), and she knew all about the music scene, criticized movies from a logic and plot point of view, and so forth. She was all woman, too.
Make your character live! Write her in your chosen voice, and keep working on things that you agree need working on. Don't take any "you write this female like a man would" criticism unless you can source it from a blind test.
In my own creative writing classes (long ago), we had a great demonstration of the frailty of most peoples' sense of the sex of the writer through anonymous submissions. It was revealing.
Finally, even when I do think that I can tell that an author is a man or a woman, it doesn't so much come across in the way the characters stick to sex-based roles, but in the overall writing. Yet only rarely do I get a chance to really blind test this, so YMMV.
You know your character better than anybody. Make this character work on her own ground, for who she is, and keep in mind that even the most perfect author (me., no doubt) still has to lump some criticism. Write to please a committee, and your voice will not be heard.
TL;DR: Try submitting with a female pen name. If the criticism goes away, there's your answer.
This is your character and you need not bow to anybody's tropes or nuances, or notions of how or why a female is. Justify your character's actions, outlook, language, interests with sources from within your character. Formative influences from youth and later on have their place, but those go into the character, not onto the page as such. As a reader, I do not so much care what happened to your character EXCEPT as far as it helps me to understand her.
So your character herself is the seat of anything she does, and your job as the author is to selectively show the reader what makes your character tick. I dated a girl who was a sysad on a university VAX system, she ran cross-country, she climbed mountains (for fun! -- ugh!), and she knew all about the music scene, criticized movies from a logic and plot point of view, and so forth. She was all woman, too.
Make your character live! Write her in your chosen voice, and keep working on things that you agree need working on. Don't take any "you write this female like a man would" criticism unless you can source it from a blind test.
In my own creative writing classes (long ago), we had a great demonstration of the frailty of most peoples' sense of the sex of the writer through anonymous submissions. It was revealing.
Finally, even when I do think that I can tell that an author is a man or a woman, it doesn't so much come across in the way the characters stick to sex-based roles, but in the overall writing. Yet only rarely do I get a chance to really blind test this, so YMMV.
You know your character better than anybody. Make this character work on her own ground, for who she is, and keep in mind that even the most perfect author (me., no doubt) still has to lump some criticism. Write to please a committee, and your voice will not be heard.
edited Jan 1 at 12:59
answered Jan 1 at 10:58
Haakon Dahl
85246
85246
6
I'm a big believer in being true to your own voice and characters, but unless the OP is writing solely for his own enjoyment, I'm not convinced "ignore all criticism" is great advice. And even your "blind test" is flawed --people tend to reserve criticism when they perceive the source as authoritative. But if the authority is faked, legitimate criticisms may be suppressed.
– Chris Sunami
yesterday
4
Brother, if I had said what you think I said, I would agree with you completely. Perhaps I could have been moire clear --- I do not mean to say "ignore all criticism", but to say that the burden remains on the OP to make the character work. If something is not working, that's his problem. I am just not convinced that the specific criticism he has received, and the implied (in the criticism) or explicit (in answers here) remedies are necessarily the right thing. I think that the OP is better served by using the criticism to sharpen his own game rather than play at somebody else's.
– Haakon Dahl
12 hours ago
3
I wonder if another critics will come up with "your main female character sounds like she was written by a lesbian"...
– Evargalo
10 hours ago
2
The "submit under a different pen name" works wonders. I've written a short story about an amazon-like barbarian female, and I included some erotic overtones to it. I submitted it to my reading circle for appraisal. I was utterly destroyed for trying to write things relating to the "female way of thinking about sexuality". My SO submitted my story as hers to another circle, and she was praised by her courage in showing off how females feel regarding sexuality in a sincere way. This really rubbed me in the wrong way for quite a while.
– T. Sar
7 hours ago
2
@T.Sar This backs up that white mid-aged healthy single man has only one priviledge:To be accused of/mocked for anything without any right of defense...
– Crowley
6 hours ago
|
show 5 more comments
6
I'm a big believer in being true to your own voice and characters, but unless the OP is writing solely for his own enjoyment, I'm not convinced "ignore all criticism" is great advice. And even your "blind test" is flawed --people tend to reserve criticism when they perceive the source as authoritative. But if the authority is faked, legitimate criticisms may be suppressed.
– Chris Sunami
yesterday
4
Brother, if I had said what you think I said, I would agree with you completely. Perhaps I could have been moire clear --- I do not mean to say "ignore all criticism", but to say that the burden remains on the OP to make the character work. If something is not working, that's his problem. I am just not convinced that the specific criticism he has received, and the implied (in the criticism) or explicit (in answers here) remedies are necessarily the right thing. I think that the OP is better served by using the criticism to sharpen his own game rather than play at somebody else's.
– Haakon Dahl
12 hours ago
3
I wonder if another critics will come up with "your main female character sounds like she was written by a lesbian"...
– Evargalo
10 hours ago
2
The "submit under a different pen name" works wonders. I've written a short story about an amazon-like barbarian female, and I included some erotic overtones to it. I submitted it to my reading circle for appraisal. I was utterly destroyed for trying to write things relating to the "female way of thinking about sexuality". My SO submitted my story as hers to another circle, and she was praised by her courage in showing off how females feel regarding sexuality in a sincere way. This really rubbed me in the wrong way for quite a while.
– T. Sar
7 hours ago
2
@T.Sar This backs up that white mid-aged healthy single man has only one priviledge:To be accused of/mocked for anything without any right of defense...
– Crowley
6 hours ago
6
6
I'm a big believer in being true to your own voice and characters, but unless the OP is writing solely for his own enjoyment, I'm not convinced "ignore all criticism" is great advice. And even your "blind test" is flawed --people tend to reserve criticism when they perceive the source as authoritative. But if the authority is faked, legitimate criticisms may be suppressed.
– Chris Sunami
yesterday
I'm a big believer in being true to your own voice and characters, but unless the OP is writing solely for his own enjoyment, I'm not convinced "ignore all criticism" is great advice. And even your "blind test" is flawed --people tend to reserve criticism when they perceive the source as authoritative. But if the authority is faked, legitimate criticisms may be suppressed.
– Chris Sunami
yesterday
4
4
Brother, if I had said what you think I said, I would agree with you completely. Perhaps I could have been moire clear --- I do not mean to say "ignore all criticism", but to say that the burden remains on the OP to make the character work. If something is not working, that's his problem. I am just not convinced that the specific criticism he has received, and the implied (in the criticism) or explicit (in answers here) remedies are necessarily the right thing. I think that the OP is better served by using the criticism to sharpen his own game rather than play at somebody else's.
– Haakon Dahl
12 hours ago
Brother, if I had said what you think I said, I would agree with you completely. Perhaps I could have been moire clear --- I do not mean to say "ignore all criticism", but to say that the burden remains on the OP to make the character work. If something is not working, that's his problem. I am just not convinced that the specific criticism he has received, and the implied (in the criticism) or explicit (in answers here) remedies are necessarily the right thing. I think that the OP is better served by using the criticism to sharpen his own game rather than play at somebody else's.
– Haakon Dahl
12 hours ago
3
3
I wonder if another critics will come up with "your main female character sounds like she was written by a lesbian"...
– Evargalo
10 hours ago
I wonder if another critics will come up with "your main female character sounds like she was written by a lesbian"...
– Evargalo
10 hours ago
2
2
The "submit under a different pen name" works wonders. I've written a short story about an amazon-like barbarian female, and I included some erotic overtones to it. I submitted it to my reading circle for appraisal. I was utterly destroyed for trying to write things relating to the "female way of thinking about sexuality". My SO submitted my story as hers to another circle, and she was praised by her courage in showing off how females feel regarding sexuality in a sincere way. This really rubbed me in the wrong way for quite a while.
– T. Sar
7 hours ago
The "submit under a different pen name" works wonders. I've written a short story about an amazon-like barbarian female, and I included some erotic overtones to it. I submitted it to my reading circle for appraisal. I was utterly destroyed for trying to write things relating to the "female way of thinking about sexuality". My SO submitted my story as hers to another circle, and she was praised by her courage in showing off how females feel regarding sexuality in a sincere way. This really rubbed me in the wrong way for quite a while.
– T. Sar
7 hours ago
2
2
@T.Sar This backs up that white mid-aged healthy single man has only one priviledge:To be accused of/mocked for anything without any right of defense...
– Crowley
6 hours ago
@T.Sar This backs up that white mid-aged healthy single man has only one priviledge:To be accused of/mocked for anything without any right of defense...
– Crowley
6 hours ago
|
show 5 more comments
There appears to be a difference in how men and women speak and write.
Linguists have found that writing by women is more "involved", while writing by men is more "informational". For example, women use more pronouns, men use more noun specifiers. Women use "the" differently than men. If you are interested in learning about male versus female linguistic styles, you can research this.
What is important is that you need to recognize that your protagonist doesn't sound like a man because of what she says alone, but also because of how she says it, and because of how you write the non-dialogue narrative of her thoughts, emotions, and perceptions. You write like a man, and therefore if you write a female charater's first person perspective, she sounds like a man.
As a solution I would recommend that you look at similar characters (the female marine/female engineer/tough girl) written by female authors and try to emulate their language.
Most authors are imprisoned in their own personal style, and experimenting with writing in the style of another author is a great exercise to make your own writing more flexible and to raise your awareness of the subliminal messages of your personal use of language. In this case, you unwittingly communicate "I'm a man". So learn to control that aspect of your writing by analysing and trying the styles of female authors.
12
While I think this is true, I also believe there's considerable overlap. For instance, in this paper, an automated algorithm achieved an accuracy of almost 80%, which is fairly impressive but still implies 20% of works were being characterized incorrectly. Humans seem to be a bit worse, as this study suggests . Speaking anecdotally, I've often seen people incorrectly guessing poster's genders online (usually assuming them to be male).
– Obie 2.0
2 days ago
6
@Obie2.0 The studies you cite used formal writing (with a prescribed format and style) or tweets as sample texts (with a maximum of 140 characters). Both extreme brevity and formal rules will suppress gender markers. In another study, using informal communication, it was possible to successfully classify the participants by gender with 91.4% accuracy. Another study achieved an accuracy of 97%. I know of no study using novels.
– user57423
2 days ago
6
@Obie2.0 90% accuracy in literary writing.
– user57423
2 days ago
Interesting research. I definitely agree about brevity and structure. I think it's worth keeping in mind some of the limitations of those higher accuracy rates, though. To be specific, if I'm not misunderstanding the study, that impressive figure of 97% actually came from selecting a set of predictors that maximized accuracy on the given dataset, but might not have achieved that level of performance on a larger set of texts.
– Obie 2.0
yesterday
I think the first study is most relevant, since it uses human raters, and the question and answers are most concerned about how human readers will assess a text, as opposed to automated tools. I'm not sure whether you have access to the full text, since the number of 91.4% is in the abstract, but looking at the body of the paper, that seems to refer to the predictive power of their model.
– Obie 2.0
yesterday
|
show 2 more comments
There appears to be a difference in how men and women speak and write.
Linguists have found that writing by women is more "involved", while writing by men is more "informational". For example, women use more pronouns, men use more noun specifiers. Women use "the" differently than men. If you are interested in learning about male versus female linguistic styles, you can research this.
What is important is that you need to recognize that your protagonist doesn't sound like a man because of what she says alone, but also because of how she says it, and because of how you write the non-dialogue narrative of her thoughts, emotions, and perceptions. You write like a man, and therefore if you write a female charater's first person perspective, she sounds like a man.
As a solution I would recommend that you look at similar characters (the female marine/female engineer/tough girl) written by female authors and try to emulate their language.
Most authors are imprisoned in their own personal style, and experimenting with writing in the style of another author is a great exercise to make your own writing more flexible and to raise your awareness of the subliminal messages of your personal use of language. In this case, you unwittingly communicate "I'm a man". So learn to control that aspect of your writing by analysing and trying the styles of female authors.
12
While I think this is true, I also believe there's considerable overlap. For instance, in this paper, an automated algorithm achieved an accuracy of almost 80%, which is fairly impressive but still implies 20% of works were being characterized incorrectly. Humans seem to be a bit worse, as this study suggests . Speaking anecdotally, I've often seen people incorrectly guessing poster's genders online (usually assuming them to be male).
– Obie 2.0
2 days ago
6
@Obie2.0 The studies you cite used formal writing (with a prescribed format and style) or tweets as sample texts (with a maximum of 140 characters). Both extreme brevity and formal rules will suppress gender markers. In another study, using informal communication, it was possible to successfully classify the participants by gender with 91.4% accuracy. Another study achieved an accuracy of 97%. I know of no study using novels.
– user57423
2 days ago
6
@Obie2.0 90% accuracy in literary writing.
– user57423
2 days ago
Interesting research. I definitely agree about brevity and structure. I think it's worth keeping in mind some of the limitations of those higher accuracy rates, though. To be specific, if I'm not misunderstanding the study, that impressive figure of 97% actually came from selecting a set of predictors that maximized accuracy on the given dataset, but might not have achieved that level of performance on a larger set of texts.
– Obie 2.0
yesterday
I think the first study is most relevant, since it uses human raters, and the question and answers are most concerned about how human readers will assess a text, as opposed to automated tools. I'm not sure whether you have access to the full text, since the number of 91.4% is in the abstract, but looking at the body of the paper, that seems to refer to the predictive power of their model.
– Obie 2.0
yesterday
|
show 2 more comments
There appears to be a difference in how men and women speak and write.
Linguists have found that writing by women is more "involved", while writing by men is more "informational". For example, women use more pronouns, men use more noun specifiers. Women use "the" differently than men. If you are interested in learning about male versus female linguistic styles, you can research this.
What is important is that you need to recognize that your protagonist doesn't sound like a man because of what she says alone, but also because of how she says it, and because of how you write the non-dialogue narrative of her thoughts, emotions, and perceptions. You write like a man, and therefore if you write a female charater's first person perspective, she sounds like a man.
As a solution I would recommend that you look at similar characters (the female marine/female engineer/tough girl) written by female authors and try to emulate their language.
Most authors are imprisoned in their own personal style, and experimenting with writing in the style of another author is a great exercise to make your own writing more flexible and to raise your awareness of the subliminal messages of your personal use of language. In this case, you unwittingly communicate "I'm a man". So learn to control that aspect of your writing by analysing and trying the styles of female authors.
There appears to be a difference in how men and women speak and write.
Linguists have found that writing by women is more "involved", while writing by men is more "informational". For example, women use more pronouns, men use more noun specifiers. Women use "the" differently than men. If you are interested in learning about male versus female linguistic styles, you can research this.
What is important is that you need to recognize that your protagonist doesn't sound like a man because of what she says alone, but also because of how she says it, and because of how you write the non-dialogue narrative of her thoughts, emotions, and perceptions. You write like a man, and therefore if you write a female charater's first person perspective, she sounds like a man.
As a solution I would recommend that you look at similar characters (the female marine/female engineer/tough girl) written by female authors and try to emulate their language.
Most authors are imprisoned in their own personal style, and experimenting with writing in the style of another author is a great exercise to make your own writing more flexible and to raise your awareness of the subliminal messages of your personal use of language. In this case, you unwittingly communicate "I'm a man". So learn to control that aspect of your writing by analysing and trying the styles of female authors.
answered Jan 1 at 9:28
user57423
1,5741421
1,5741421
12
While I think this is true, I also believe there's considerable overlap. For instance, in this paper, an automated algorithm achieved an accuracy of almost 80%, which is fairly impressive but still implies 20% of works were being characterized incorrectly. Humans seem to be a bit worse, as this study suggests . Speaking anecdotally, I've often seen people incorrectly guessing poster's genders online (usually assuming them to be male).
– Obie 2.0
2 days ago
6
@Obie2.0 The studies you cite used formal writing (with a prescribed format and style) or tweets as sample texts (with a maximum of 140 characters). Both extreme brevity and formal rules will suppress gender markers. In another study, using informal communication, it was possible to successfully classify the participants by gender with 91.4% accuracy. Another study achieved an accuracy of 97%. I know of no study using novels.
– user57423
2 days ago
6
@Obie2.0 90% accuracy in literary writing.
– user57423
2 days ago
Interesting research. I definitely agree about brevity and structure. I think it's worth keeping in mind some of the limitations of those higher accuracy rates, though. To be specific, if I'm not misunderstanding the study, that impressive figure of 97% actually came from selecting a set of predictors that maximized accuracy on the given dataset, but might not have achieved that level of performance on a larger set of texts.
– Obie 2.0
yesterday
I think the first study is most relevant, since it uses human raters, and the question and answers are most concerned about how human readers will assess a text, as opposed to automated tools. I'm not sure whether you have access to the full text, since the number of 91.4% is in the abstract, but looking at the body of the paper, that seems to refer to the predictive power of their model.
– Obie 2.0
yesterday
|
show 2 more comments
12
While I think this is true, I also believe there's considerable overlap. For instance, in this paper, an automated algorithm achieved an accuracy of almost 80%, which is fairly impressive but still implies 20% of works were being characterized incorrectly. Humans seem to be a bit worse, as this study suggests . Speaking anecdotally, I've often seen people incorrectly guessing poster's genders online (usually assuming them to be male).
– Obie 2.0
2 days ago
6
@Obie2.0 The studies you cite used formal writing (with a prescribed format and style) or tweets as sample texts (with a maximum of 140 characters). Both extreme brevity and formal rules will suppress gender markers. In another study, using informal communication, it was possible to successfully classify the participants by gender with 91.4% accuracy. Another study achieved an accuracy of 97%. I know of no study using novels.
– user57423
2 days ago
6
@Obie2.0 90% accuracy in literary writing.
– user57423
2 days ago
Interesting research. I definitely agree about brevity and structure. I think it's worth keeping in mind some of the limitations of those higher accuracy rates, though. To be specific, if I'm not misunderstanding the study, that impressive figure of 97% actually came from selecting a set of predictors that maximized accuracy on the given dataset, but might not have achieved that level of performance on a larger set of texts.
– Obie 2.0
yesterday
I think the first study is most relevant, since it uses human raters, and the question and answers are most concerned about how human readers will assess a text, as opposed to automated tools. I'm not sure whether you have access to the full text, since the number of 91.4% is in the abstract, but looking at the body of the paper, that seems to refer to the predictive power of their model.
– Obie 2.0
yesterday
12
12
While I think this is true, I also believe there's considerable overlap. For instance, in this paper, an automated algorithm achieved an accuracy of almost 80%, which is fairly impressive but still implies 20% of works were being characterized incorrectly. Humans seem to be a bit worse, as this study suggests . Speaking anecdotally, I've often seen people incorrectly guessing poster's genders online (usually assuming them to be male).
– Obie 2.0
2 days ago
While I think this is true, I also believe there's considerable overlap. For instance, in this paper, an automated algorithm achieved an accuracy of almost 80%, which is fairly impressive but still implies 20% of works were being characterized incorrectly. Humans seem to be a bit worse, as this study suggests . Speaking anecdotally, I've often seen people incorrectly guessing poster's genders online (usually assuming them to be male).
– Obie 2.0
2 days ago
6
6
@Obie2.0 The studies you cite used formal writing (with a prescribed format and style) or tweets as sample texts (with a maximum of 140 characters). Both extreme brevity and formal rules will suppress gender markers. In another study, using informal communication, it was possible to successfully classify the participants by gender with 91.4% accuracy. Another study achieved an accuracy of 97%. I know of no study using novels.
– user57423
2 days ago
@Obie2.0 The studies you cite used formal writing (with a prescribed format and style) or tweets as sample texts (with a maximum of 140 characters). Both extreme brevity and formal rules will suppress gender markers. In another study, using informal communication, it was possible to successfully classify the participants by gender with 91.4% accuracy. Another study achieved an accuracy of 97%. I know of no study using novels.
– user57423
2 days ago
6
6
@Obie2.0 90% accuracy in literary writing.
– user57423
2 days ago
@Obie2.0 90% accuracy in literary writing.
– user57423
2 days ago
Interesting research. I definitely agree about brevity and structure. I think it's worth keeping in mind some of the limitations of those higher accuracy rates, though. To be specific, if I'm not misunderstanding the study, that impressive figure of 97% actually came from selecting a set of predictors that maximized accuracy on the given dataset, but might not have achieved that level of performance on a larger set of texts.
– Obie 2.0
yesterday
Interesting research. I definitely agree about brevity and structure. I think it's worth keeping in mind some of the limitations of those higher accuracy rates, though. To be specific, if I'm not misunderstanding the study, that impressive figure of 97% actually came from selecting a set of predictors that maximized accuracy on the given dataset, but might not have achieved that level of performance on a larger set of texts.
– Obie 2.0
yesterday
I think the first study is most relevant, since it uses human raters, and the question and answers are most concerned about how human readers will assess a text, as opposed to automated tools. I'm not sure whether you have access to the full text, since the number of 91.4% is in the abstract, but looking at the body of the paper, that seems to refer to the predictive power of their model.
– Obie 2.0
yesterday
I think the first study is most relevant, since it uses human raters, and the question and answers are most concerned about how human readers will assess a text, as opposed to automated tools. I'm not sure whether you have access to the full text, since the number of 91.4% is in the abstract, but looking at the body of the paper, that seems to refer to the predictive power of their model.
– Obie 2.0
yesterday
|
show 2 more comments
This critique is always complicated because of how nuanced gender actually is.
This is actually a frequent problem with male authors. We tend to have experience and methods of thinking that are typically considered "masculine" and take them as the baseline.
This does not mean, whatsoever, that your MC should spend time sitting in her cabin painting her nails (or that she shouldn't, if that matches her character). It does mean that you might want to think more about what it actually means to be a woman in this setting.
How would she have been raised? How would gender impact her treatment by other characters? Would she be as likely to opt for violence to resolve disputes? And if so, what form does her violence take?
One of my characters is similar to the "badass" women tropes, but with a few key considerations.
Firstly, she can only occupy this position because she has the backing of powerful, local, political figures. Without the sanction this power structure, she would have long ago been murdered or married off. Her ability to approximate this trope is a function of privilege, and she spends a decent character arc understanding how even her oppression doesn't compare to that of other women in her setting, and figuring out what this means for herself and the world around her.
Secondly, she inhabits this role because she was born into a social class defined by the use of violence. She is adopting a masculine social function because the alternative is even worse to her, and she has no other options.
Thirdly, she has no magic in a magical world. She cannot rely on being as fast, strong and durable as her adversaries. Her utility involves leadership abilities such as tactical planning that makes her simultaneously invaluable and builds social capital for her. She makes herself socially invaluable and financially lucrative.
Fourth, she is functionally suicidal. Because of the above, every conflict is a potential death sentence. She relies on her squad to survive and throws herself into situations more daring than what most sane people would consider. This builds further social capital because she's not only the most talented leader, but her death-drive is mistaken for bravery, and results in shocking and unique maneuvers.
Fifth, she is %<#]@*= terrifying. When she engages in conflict she must be as brutal and horrifying as-is humanly possible. She depends on reputation to avoid conflict. She depends on her persona to maintain the social capital that keeps her free and safe(r). And every conflict is for all-the-stakes. There are no second chances. She is small, and relatively weak, without any fancy magical power to save her. She wins, every time, or she's dead. So when she comes, she brings everything to the table.
Sixth, she has a macabre, black, and biting sense of humor. People from oppressed demographics or upbringingings often do. Its a tool that (we) use to remain sane, and to fight in contexts when we don't have the power to directly engage people higher on the social totem pole. It's also born of a deeply fatalistic worldview, given her omnipresent threat of death.
Seventh, when she can't avoid conflict, and she can't bluster her way out of it, and she can't plan ahead or end it quickly, all of this influences how she approaches violence. Namely, at a distance. Using the great equalizer: technology. If you see her, or are within arms reach, its because she screwed up. She'd much rather punch holes in you at half a kilometer away.
So.
All of this is to say that I started from context and then built a character around the setting. This person could not exist as a man.
Her twin brother is completely different, and is (actually) the local political power that allows her to operate. Everything about how they engage with their world would change if their assigned gender changed. I didn't start with the idea for a wisecracking pistolero, who hides some serious trauma with a black sense of humor.
I started with a person in a specific context and thought: "How could a person with these demographic traits survive? What are the likely outcomes given these constraints?"
And then I got a character. If you're starting with a template, throw it out, and ask yourself why you made the person you made.
Let them grow and reveal themselves to you.
And, it's important to note that this is only one of multiple core female characters. My MC is totally different, and has a son that infinitely complicates her decisionmaking.
So it also matters what the different visions of femininity look like in your art. Without internal diversity, the piece will always feel like it lacks authenticity.
2
Where can we read this work?
– KalleMP
yesterday
1
What a great way to advertise your own work without realizing it. ;)
– noClue
yesterday
It's only half done :-) a round of edits and 40k words to go
– user49466
yesterday
add a comment |
This critique is always complicated because of how nuanced gender actually is.
This is actually a frequent problem with male authors. We tend to have experience and methods of thinking that are typically considered "masculine" and take them as the baseline.
This does not mean, whatsoever, that your MC should spend time sitting in her cabin painting her nails (or that she shouldn't, if that matches her character). It does mean that you might want to think more about what it actually means to be a woman in this setting.
How would she have been raised? How would gender impact her treatment by other characters? Would she be as likely to opt for violence to resolve disputes? And if so, what form does her violence take?
One of my characters is similar to the "badass" women tropes, but with a few key considerations.
Firstly, she can only occupy this position because she has the backing of powerful, local, political figures. Without the sanction this power structure, she would have long ago been murdered or married off. Her ability to approximate this trope is a function of privilege, and she spends a decent character arc understanding how even her oppression doesn't compare to that of other women in her setting, and figuring out what this means for herself and the world around her.
Secondly, she inhabits this role because she was born into a social class defined by the use of violence. She is adopting a masculine social function because the alternative is even worse to her, and she has no other options.
Thirdly, she has no magic in a magical world. She cannot rely on being as fast, strong and durable as her adversaries. Her utility involves leadership abilities such as tactical planning that makes her simultaneously invaluable and builds social capital for her. She makes herself socially invaluable and financially lucrative.
Fourth, she is functionally suicidal. Because of the above, every conflict is a potential death sentence. She relies on her squad to survive and throws herself into situations more daring than what most sane people would consider. This builds further social capital because she's not only the most talented leader, but her death-drive is mistaken for bravery, and results in shocking and unique maneuvers.
Fifth, she is %<#]@*= terrifying. When she engages in conflict she must be as brutal and horrifying as-is humanly possible. She depends on reputation to avoid conflict. She depends on her persona to maintain the social capital that keeps her free and safe(r). And every conflict is for all-the-stakes. There are no second chances. She is small, and relatively weak, without any fancy magical power to save her. She wins, every time, or she's dead. So when she comes, she brings everything to the table.
Sixth, she has a macabre, black, and biting sense of humor. People from oppressed demographics or upbringingings often do. Its a tool that (we) use to remain sane, and to fight in contexts when we don't have the power to directly engage people higher on the social totem pole. It's also born of a deeply fatalistic worldview, given her omnipresent threat of death.
Seventh, when she can't avoid conflict, and she can't bluster her way out of it, and she can't plan ahead or end it quickly, all of this influences how she approaches violence. Namely, at a distance. Using the great equalizer: technology. If you see her, or are within arms reach, its because she screwed up. She'd much rather punch holes in you at half a kilometer away.
So.
All of this is to say that I started from context and then built a character around the setting. This person could not exist as a man.
Her twin brother is completely different, and is (actually) the local political power that allows her to operate. Everything about how they engage with their world would change if their assigned gender changed. I didn't start with the idea for a wisecracking pistolero, who hides some serious trauma with a black sense of humor.
I started with a person in a specific context and thought: "How could a person with these demographic traits survive? What are the likely outcomes given these constraints?"
And then I got a character. If you're starting with a template, throw it out, and ask yourself why you made the person you made.
Let them grow and reveal themselves to you.
And, it's important to note that this is only one of multiple core female characters. My MC is totally different, and has a son that infinitely complicates her decisionmaking.
So it also matters what the different visions of femininity look like in your art. Without internal diversity, the piece will always feel like it lacks authenticity.
2
Where can we read this work?
– KalleMP
yesterday
1
What a great way to advertise your own work without realizing it. ;)
– noClue
yesterday
It's only half done :-) a round of edits and 40k words to go
– user49466
yesterday
add a comment |
This critique is always complicated because of how nuanced gender actually is.
This is actually a frequent problem with male authors. We tend to have experience and methods of thinking that are typically considered "masculine" and take them as the baseline.
This does not mean, whatsoever, that your MC should spend time sitting in her cabin painting her nails (or that she shouldn't, if that matches her character). It does mean that you might want to think more about what it actually means to be a woman in this setting.
How would she have been raised? How would gender impact her treatment by other characters? Would she be as likely to opt for violence to resolve disputes? And if so, what form does her violence take?
One of my characters is similar to the "badass" women tropes, but with a few key considerations.
Firstly, she can only occupy this position because she has the backing of powerful, local, political figures. Without the sanction this power structure, she would have long ago been murdered or married off. Her ability to approximate this trope is a function of privilege, and she spends a decent character arc understanding how even her oppression doesn't compare to that of other women in her setting, and figuring out what this means for herself and the world around her.
Secondly, she inhabits this role because she was born into a social class defined by the use of violence. She is adopting a masculine social function because the alternative is even worse to her, and she has no other options.
Thirdly, she has no magic in a magical world. She cannot rely on being as fast, strong and durable as her adversaries. Her utility involves leadership abilities such as tactical planning that makes her simultaneously invaluable and builds social capital for her. She makes herself socially invaluable and financially lucrative.
Fourth, she is functionally suicidal. Because of the above, every conflict is a potential death sentence. She relies on her squad to survive and throws herself into situations more daring than what most sane people would consider. This builds further social capital because she's not only the most talented leader, but her death-drive is mistaken for bravery, and results in shocking and unique maneuvers.
Fifth, she is %<#]@*= terrifying. When she engages in conflict she must be as brutal and horrifying as-is humanly possible. She depends on reputation to avoid conflict. She depends on her persona to maintain the social capital that keeps her free and safe(r). And every conflict is for all-the-stakes. There are no second chances. She is small, and relatively weak, without any fancy magical power to save her. She wins, every time, or she's dead. So when she comes, she brings everything to the table.
Sixth, she has a macabre, black, and biting sense of humor. People from oppressed demographics or upbringingings often do. Its a tool that (we) use to remain sane, and to fight in contexts when we don't have the power to directly engage people higher on the social totem pole. It's also born of a deeply fatalistic worldview, given her omnipresent threat of death.
Seventh, when she can't avoid conflict, and she can't bluster her way out of it, and she can't plan ahead or end it quickly, all of this influences how she approaches violence. Namely, at a distance. Using the great equalizer: technology. If you see her, or are within arms reach, its because she screwed up. She'd much rather punch holes in you at half a kilometer away.
So.
All of this is to say that I started from context and then built a character around the setting. This person could not exist as a man.
Her twin brother is completely different, and is (actually) the local political power that allows her to operate. Everything about how they engage with their world would change if their assigned gender changed. I didn't start with the idea for a wisecracking pistolero, who hides some serious trauma with a black sense of humor.
I started with a person in a specific context and thought: "How could a person with these demographic traits survive? What are the likely outcomes given these constraints?"
And then I got a character. If you're starting with a template, throw it out, and ask yourself why you made the person you made.
Let them grow and reveal themselves to you.
And, it's important to note that this is only one of multiple core female characters. My MC is totally different, and has a son that infinitely complicates her decisionmaking.
So it also matters what the different visions of femininity look like in your art. Without internal diversity, the piece will always feel like it lacks authenticity.
This critique is always complicated because of how nuanced gender actually is.
This is actually a frequent problem with male authors. We tend to have experience and methods of thinking that are typically considered "masculine" and take them as the baseline.
This does not mean, whatsoever, that your MC should spend time sitting in her cabin painting her nails (or that she shouldn't, if that matches her character). It does mean that you might want to think more about what it actually means to be a woman in this setting.
How would she have been raised? How would gender impact her treatment by other characters? Would she be as likely to opt for violence to resolve disputes? And if so, what form does her violence take?
One of my characters is similar to the "badass" women tropes, but with a few key considerations.
Firstly, she can only occupy this position because she has the backing of powerful, local, political figures. Without the sanction this power structure, she would have long ago been murdered or married off. Her ability to approximate this trope is a function of privilege, and she spends a decent character arc understanding how even her oppression doesn't compare to that of other women in her setting, and figuring out what this means for herself and the world around her.
Secondly, she inhabits this role because she was born into a social class defined by the use of violence. She is adopting a masculine social function because the alternative is even worse to her, and she has no other options.
Thirdly, she has no magic in a magical world. She cannot rely on being as fast, strong and durable as her adversaries. Her utility involves leadership abilities such as tactical planning that makes her simultaneously invaluable and builds social capital for her. She makes herself socially invaluable and financially lucrative.
Fourth, she is functionally suicidal. Because of the above, every conflict is a potential death sentence. She relies on her squad to survive and throws herself into situations more daring than what most sane people would consider. This builds further social capital because she's not only the most talented leader, but her death-drive is mistaken for bravery, and results in shocking and unique maneuvers.
Fifth, she is %<#]@*= terrifying. When she engages in conflict she must be as brutal and horrifying as-is humanly possible. She depends on reputation to avoid conflict. She depends on her persona to maintain the social capital that keeps her free and safe(r). And every conflict is for all-the-stakes. There are no second chances. She is small, and relatively weak, without any fancy magical power to save her. She wins, every time, or she's dead. So when she comes, she brings everything to the table.
Sixth, she has a macabre, black, and biting sense of humor. People from oppressed demographics or upbringingings often do. Its a tool that (we) use to remain sane, and to fight in contexts when we don't have the power to directly engage people higher on the social totem pole. It's also born of a deeply fatalistic worldview, given her omnipresent threat of death.
Seventh, when she can't avoid conflict, and she can't bluster her way out of it, and she can't plan ahead or end it quickly, all of this influences how she approaches violence. Namely, at a distance. Using the great equalizer: technology. If you see her, or are within arms reach, its because she screwed up. She'd much rather punch holes in you at half a kilometer away.
So.
All of this is to say that I started from context and then built a character around the setting. This person could not exist as a man.
Her twin brother is completely different, and is (actually) the local political power that allows her to operate. Everything about how they engage with their world would change if their assigned gender changed. I didn't start with the idea for a wisecracking pistolero, who hides some serious trauma with a black sense of humor.
I started with a person in a specific context and thought: "How could a person with these demographic traits survive? What are the likely outcomes given these constraints?"
And then I got a character. If you're starting with a template, throw it out, and ask yourself why you made the person you made.
Let them grow and reveal themselves to you.
And, it's important to note that this is only one of multiple core female characters. My MC is totally different, and has a son that infinitely complicates her decisionmaking.
So it also matters what the different visions of femininity look like in your art. Without internal diversity, the piece will always feel like it lacks authenticity.
answered Jan 1 at 6:12
user49466
84629
84629
2
Where can we read this work?
– KalleMP
yesterday
1
What a great way to advertise your own work without realizing it. ;)
– noClue
yesterday
It's only half done :-) a round of edits and 40k words to go
– user49466
yesterday
add a comment |
2
Where can we read this work?
– KalleMP
yesterday
1
What a great way to advertise your own work without realizing it. ;)
– noClue
yesterday
It's only half done :-) a round of edits and 40k words to go
– user49466
yesterday
2
2
Where can we read this work?
– KalleMP
yesterday
Where can we read this work?
– KalleMP
yesterday
1
1
What a great way to advertise your own work without realizing it. ;)
– noClue
yesterday
What a great way to advertise your own work without realizing it. ;)
– noClue
yesterday
It's only half done :-) a round of edits and 40k words to go
– user49466
yesterday
It's only half done :-) a round of edits and 40k words to go
– user49466
yesterday
add a comment |
There is a certain social image of what being a woman "means" - there are expectations both of how a woman would act, and how a woman would be treated. A particular female character is bound to engage with that image, whether she accepts it, rejects it, does something else with it. You, as a writer, cannot simply ignore that image - the image is already in the reader's mind.
What does that mean?
Before you write a particular female character, consider women's place in general in your world. Are they limited in any way by society? Are they the group that rules? Is there truly no difference between men and women in how they are treated, in what options are open to them, in what is expected of them?
Next, what character traits are considered "positive" in your world? Violence or diplomacy? Individualism or or social harmony?
You have assigned to your character behaviours that are in our world considered typically male, and typically "better", "stronger". You have sort of subconsciously decided that "strong" female character means "character who exhibits typically male behaviours", and you do not engage with that idea in any way.
Compare that to @user49466's example: the character's behaviour is understood as "typically masculine" within her society, her behaviour is compelled by the realities of her world.
There are other ways your character can engage the reader's expectations: the character's behaviour might lead to negative results, presenting "typically male" behaviours as weaker than "typically female" behaviours, whether exhibited by a male or a female character. The character might acknowledge the fact that she is very macho-man - whether this behaviour is compelled, or she just likes it that way.
There is also the way society treats your character: is she considered "stronger" because she is "manly"? Is she treated negatively because she's "not feminine"? Or are women like her as common as men like her, behaviour no longer being "typically male" or "typically female"?
There are many ways in which you can engage the gender expectations. Writing under the subconscious assumption that "strong" universally equals "manly" doesn't engage those expectations at all, instead very much intrinsically accepting them, for both men and women. Which, I guess, would be why your critic made the comment he did.
add a comment |
There is a certain social image of what being a woman "means" - there are expectations both of how a woman would act, and how a woman would be treated. A particular female character is bound to engage with that image, whether she accepts it, rejects it, does something else with it. You, as a writer, cannot simply ignore that image - the image is already in the reader's mind.
What does that mean?
Before you write a particular female character, consider women's place in general in your world. Are they limited in any way by society? Are they the group that rules? Is there truly no difference between men and women in how they are treated, in what options are open to them, in what is expected of them?
Next, what character traits are considered "positive" in your world? Violence or diplomacy? Individualism or or social harmony?
You have assigned to your character behaviours that are in our world considered typically male, and typically "better", "stronger". You have sort of subconsciously decided that "strong" female character means "character who exhibits typically male behaviours", and you do not engage with that idea in any way.
Compare that to @user49466's example: the character's behaviour is understood as "typically masculine" within her society, her behaviour is compelled by the realities of her world.
There are other ways your character can engage the reader's expectations: the character's behaviour might lead to negative results, presenting "typically male" behaviours as weaker than "typically female" behaviours, whether exhibited by a male or a female character. The character might acknowledge the fact that she is very macho-man - whether this behaviour is compelled, or she just likes it that way.
There is also the way society treats your character: is she considered "stronger" because she is "manly"? Is she treated negatively because she's "not feminine"? Or are women like her as common as men like her, behaviour no longer being "typically male" or "typically female"?
There are many ways in which you can engage the gender expectations. Writing under the subconscious assumption that "strong" universally equals "manly" doesn't engage those expectations at all, instead very much intrinsically accepting them, for both men and women. Which, I guess, would be why your critic made the comment he did.
add a comment |
There is a certain social image of what being a woman "means" - there are expectations both of how a woman would act, and how a woman would be treated. A particular female character is bound to engage with that image, whether she accepts it, rejects it, does something else with it. You, as a writer, cannot simply ignore that image - the image is already in the reader's mind.
What does that mean?
Before you write a particular female character, consider women's place in general in your world. Are they limited in any way by society? Are they the group that rules? Is there truly no difference between men and women in how they are treated, in what options are open to them, in what is expected of them?
Next, what character traits are considered "positive" in your world? Violence or diplomacy? Individualism or or social harmony?
You have assigned to your character behaviours that are in our world considered typically male, and typically "better", "stronger". You have sort of subconsciously decided that "strong" female character means "character who exhibits typically male behaviours", and you do not engage with that idea in any way.
Compare that to @user49466's example: the character's behaviour is understood as "typically masculine" within her society, her behaviour is compelled by the realities of her world.
There are other ways your character can engage the reader's expectations: the character's behaviour might lead to negative results, presenting "typically male" behaviours as weaker than "typically female" behaviours, whether exhibited by a male or a female character. The character might acknowledge the fact that she is very macho-man - whether this behaviour is compelled, or she just likes it that way.
There is also the way society treats your character: is she considered "stronger" because she is "manly"? Is she treated negatively because she's "not feminine"? Or are women like her as common as men like her, behaviour no longer being "typically male" or "typically female"?
There are many ways in which you can engage the gender expectations. Writing under the subconscious assumption that "strong" universally equals "manly" doesn't engage those expectations at all, instead very much intrinsically accepting them, for both men and women. Which, I guess, would be why your critic made the comment he did.
There is a certain social image of what being a woman "means" - there are expectations both of how a woman would act, and how a woman would be treated. A particular female character is bound to engage with that image, whether she accepts it, rejects it, does something else with it. You, as a writer, cannot simply ignore that image - the image is already in the reader's mind.
What does that mean?
Before you write a particular female character, consider women's place in general in your world. Are they limited in any way by society? Are they the group that rules? Is there truly no difference between men and women in how they are treated, in what options are open to them, in what is expected of them?
Next, what character traits are considered "positive" in your world? Violence or diplomacy? Individualism or or social harmony?
You have assigned to your character behaviours that are in our world considered typically male, and typically "better", "stronger". You have sort of subconsciously decided that "strong" female character means "character who exhibits typically male behaviours", and you do not engage with that idea in any way.
Compare that to @user49466's example: the character's behaviour is understood as "typically masculine" within her society, her behaviour is compelled by the realities of her world.
There are other ways your character can engage the reader's expectations: the character's behaviour might lead to negative results, presenting "typically male" behaviours as weaker than "typically female" behaviours, whether exhibited by a male or a female character. The character might acknowledge the fact that she is very macho-man - whether this behaviour is compelled, or she just likes it that way.
There is also the way society treats your character: is she considered "stronger" because she is "manly"? Is she treated negatively because she's "not feminine"? Or are women like her as common as men like her, behaviour no longer being "typically male" or "typically female"?
There are many ways in which you can engage the gender expectations. Writing under the subconscious assumption that "strong" universally equals "manly" doesn't engage those expectations at all, instead very much intrinsically accepting them, for both men and women. Which, I guess, would be why your critic made the comment he did.
answered Jan 1 at 15:13
Galastel
25.5k470138
25.5k470138
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As a male writer who's had female protagonists, and plenty of female characters regardless of the protagonist's gender, I've not been told a female sounded like a man wrote her, but I have been told one could easily have been male, and that speaks to many of the same concerns. There were two main issues I had to fix in that instance.
Firstly, her traits were perhaps characteristic more of males than females, insofar as they were gendered at all. I usually write characters without trying to choose gendered traits for them - in this example, she was a young genius with a scarring past and dark streak - but that's not always a good thing. (I think it mostly is, though; it results in a work that needs tweaking after beta reader feedback, but so does anything.) Just to give some examples:
- She made two comments about masturbation. The first was her refusal to describe her cousin's beauty in detail, in case a reader fantasised because of it. The second was a clarification a phrase of hers didn't have risqué intent, as a reader might have thought it did if they'd noticed an extremely subtle but unintended pun. I deleted the first because, as part of other improvements based on feedback, I did include a description of the cousin anyway. This is because one of the main ways gender would affect my protagonist is her awkward relationship with that cousin, whose response to gender roles is more affected by puberty. As for the second, I kept it (albeit with a slight edit) because it underscores the character's ability to out-think most readers.
- She doesn't focus on being girly. A reader wondered whether she giggles, and what she thinks of make-up. I ultimately worked into the character's description of her cousin signs of envying her more straightforward femininity, which she mostly wraps in a transparent criticism of the effort.
Secondly, she didn't sufficiently address the consequences for her of being female in her society (the contemporary US). Ultimately, the problem women face is that people underestimate them. (You're welcome to dream up a fictional world where this isn't the case, but there are bound to be characters that would be underestimated, so it switches the question to how to write group X properly.) How should you, as a writer, make sure it's obvious a character endures this and understands that they do? I can't answer, because it depends on the character. In my case, she'd see it as a make-lemonade-from-lemons situation: if people underestimate her, she'll take advantage of that to trick them. That's the kind of person she is, someone who thinks her brain's job is to control people, not to show off all the maths she can do. I guess what I'm saying is: find what facts about your character reflect her reaction to being a woman. Her reaction, not that of the male writer who created her, but also created the world that makes her who she is.
add a comment |
As a male writer who's had female protagonists, and plenty of female characters regardless of the protagonist's gender, I've not been told a female sounded like a man wrote her, but I have been told one could easily have been male, and that speaks to many of the same concerns. There were two main issues I had to fix in that instance.
Firstly, her traits were perhaps characteristic more of males than females, insofar as they were gendered at all. I usually write characters without trying to choose gendered traits for them - in this example, she was a young genius with a scarring past and dark streak - but that's not always a good thing. (I think it mostly is, though; it results in a work that needs tweaking after beta reader feedback, but so does anything.) Just to give some examples:
- She made two comments about masturbation. The first was her refusal to describe her cousin's beauty in detail, in case a reader fantasised because of it. The second was a clarification a phrase of hers didn't have risqué intent, as a reader might have thought it did if they'd noticed an extremely subtle but unintended pun. I deleted the first because, as part of other improvements based on feedback, I did include a description of the cousin anyway. This is because one of the main ways gender would affect my protagonist is her awkward relationship with that cousin, whose response to gender roles is more affected by puberty. As for the second, I kept it (albeit with a slight edit) because it underscores the character's ability to out-think most readers.
- She doesn't focus on being girly. A reader wondered whether she giggles, and what she thinks of make-up. I ultimately worked into the character's description of her cousin signs of envying her more straightforward femininity, which she mostly wraps in a transparent criticism of the effort.
Secondly, she didn't sufficiently address the consequences for her of being female in her society (the contemporary US). Ultimately, the problem women face is that people underestimate them. (You're welcome to dream up a fictional world where this isn't the case, but there are bound to be characters that would be underestimated, so it switches the question to how to write group X properly.) How should you, as a writer, make sure it's obvious a character endures this and understands that they do? I can't answer, because it depends on the character. In my case, she'd see it as a make-lemonade-from-lemons situation: if people underestimate her, she'll take advantage of that to trick them. That's the kind of person she is, someone who thinks her brain's job is to control people, not to show off all the maths she can do. I guess what I'm saying is: find what facts about your character reflect her reaction to being a woman. Her reaction, not that of the male writer who created her, but also created the world that makes her who she is.
add a comment |
As a male writer who's had female protagonists, and plenty of female characters regardless of the protagonist's gender, I've not been told a female sounded like a man wrote her, but I have been told one could easily have been male, and that speaks to many of the same concerns. There were two main issues I had to fix in that instance.
Firstly, her traits were perhaps characteristic more of males than females, insofar as they were gendered at all. I usually write characters without trying to choose gendered traits for them - in this example, she was a young genius with a scarring past and dark streak - but that's not always a good thing. (I think it mostly is, though; it results in a work that needs tweaking after beta reader feedback, but so does anything.) Just to give some examples:
- She made two comments about masturbation. The first was her refusal to describe her cousin's beauty in detail, in case a reader fantasised because of it. The second was a clarification a phrase of hers didn't have risqué intent, as a reader might have thought it did if they'd noticed an extremely subtle but unintended pun. I deleted the first because, as part of other improvements based on feedback, I did include a description of the cousin anyway. This is because one of the main ways gender would affect my protagonist is her awkward relationship with that cousin, whose response to gender roles is more affected by puberty. As for the second, I kept it (albeit with a slight edit) because it underscores the character's ability to out-think most readers.
- She doesn't focus on being girly. A reader wondered whether she giggles, and what she thinks of make-up. I ultimately worked into the character's description of her cousin signs of envying her more straightforward femininity, which she mostly wraps in a transparent criticism of the effort.
Secondly, she didn't sufficiently address the consequences for her of being female in her society (the contemporary US). Ultimately, the problem women face is that people underestimate them. (You're welcome to dream up a fictional world where this isn't the case, but there are bound to be characters that would be underestimated, so it switches the question to how to write group X properly.) How should you, as a writer, make sure it's obvious a character endures this and understands that they do? I can't answer, because it depends on the character. In my case, she'd see it as a make-lemonade-from-lemons situation: if people underestimate her, she'll take advantage of that to trick them. That's the kind of person she is, someone who thinks her brain's job is to control people, not to show off all the maths she can do. I guess what I'm saying is: find what facts about your character reflect her reaction to being a woman. Her reaction, not that of the male writer who created her, but also created the world that makes her who she is.
As a male writer who's had female protagonists, and plenty of female characters regardless of the protagonist's gender, I've not been told a female sounded like a man wrote her, but I have been told one could easily have been male, and that speaks to many of the same concerns. There were two main issues I had to fix in that instance.
Firstly, her traits were perhaps characteristic more of males than females, insofar as they were gendered at all. I usually write characters without trying to choose gendered traits for them - in this example, she was a young genius with a scarring past and dark streak - but that's not always a good thing. (I think it mostly is, though; it results in a work that needs tweaking after beta reader feedback, but so does anything.) Just to give some examples:
- She made two comments about masturbation. The first was her refusal to describe her cousin's beauty in detail, in case a reader fantasised because of it. The second was a clarification a phrase of hers didn't have risqué intent, as a reader might have thought it did if they'd noticed an extremely subtle but unintended pun. I deleted the first because, as part of other improvements based on feedback, I did include a description of the cousin anyway. This is because one of the main ways gender would affect my protagonist is her awkward relationship with that cousin, whose response to gender roles is more affected by puberty. As for the second, I kept it (albeit with a slight edit) because it underscores the character's ability to out-think most readers.
- She doesn't focus on being girly. A reader wondered whether she giggles, and what she thinks of make-up. I ultimately worked into the character's description of her cousin signs of envying her more straightforward femininity, which she mostly wraps in a transparent criticism of the effort.
Secondly, she didn't sufficiently address the consequences for her of being female in her society (the contemporary US). Ultimately, the problem women face is that people underestimate them. (You're welcome to dream up a fictional world where this isn't the case, but there are bound to be characters that would be underestimated, so it switches the question to how to write group X properly.) How should you, as a writer, make sure it's obvious a character endures this and understands that they do? I can't answer, because it depends on the character. In my case, she'd see it as a make-lemonade-from-lemons situation: if people underestimate her, she'll take advantage of that to trick them. That's the kind of person she is, someone who thinks her brain's job is to control people, not to show off all the maths she can do. I guess what I'm saying is: find what facts about your character reflect her reaction to being a woman. Her reaction, not that of the male writer who created her, but also created the world that makes her who she is.
answered Jan 1 at 10:11
J.G.
6,10711330
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Slightly different angle from other answers...
"However because the character swears, makes pop culture references and sexually objectifies men, some critics have commented that this makes it seem that it's a female character being written by a man."
There is (to me) some kind of logical disconnect between "the character swears, makes pop culture references and sexually objectifies men" (i.e. the character behaves in a somewhat "unlady-like" fashion) and "it's a female character being written by a man".
As a somewhat "unlady-like" person myself, I don't see anything particularly problematic about the character's behaviour (sounds perfectly believable and relatable).
However, "female character being written by a man" evokes cringe-worthy memories of:
"strong" female characters who for no particular reason opt for absurdly impractical outfits (high heels, maximum skin exposure, etc.), and can't seem to keep their clothes on for more than 5 minutes (or, in a slightly tamer version, have the narrative camera longingly lingers on all their fully-clothed lady-bits at every opportunity)
awkwardly inaccurate depictions of basic female body functions (periods, pregnancy, child birth, etc?), and/or failure to take these into account plot-wise (e.g. unsafe sex has no consequences, not even at a psychological level, e.g. fear of unwanted pregnancy)
Sanity check: are you 100% sure the criticism is really due to the character's laddish behaviour (in which case, whatever...), and not to some of the above narrative mishaps?
I.e. how does your male gaze affect the way you talk about her female body? Does your attraction and/or lack of first-hand experience show somehow? (and if so, how much?). Conversely, maybe, being a true gentleman (and/or out of "paternal" love), your writing cautiously glosses over the fact your "female" character actually comes with a female body?
And if so, in either case... does it matter? (partly depends on the intended audience, I guess?)
Perhaps simply check how often her body is mentionned, and how? (is the reference more sexual, focusing on attractiveness, or practical? E.g. basic issues like pain, hunger, tiredness, physical comfort, etc.)
There's no clear-cut right or wrong, but you need to find a balance somewhere. In my (entirely subjective) opinion, a bit of objectification is not necessarily bad, as long as the overall humaness prevails in the end. You can contrast the two for comedic effect. E.g. sexy outfits are far less glamorous if you mention all the pre-requisite grooming involved, the subsequent blisters, etc. You can also contrast appearances and societal expectations with inner thought process. E.g. she normally prefers practical clothing, but may occasionally opt for a sexy outfit as a tactical decision (worn as "camouflage" to infiltrate a social event). You can alternate between external perspective ("phwoar!") and internal perspective (rational behind the decision, preparation required, etc.) for a well-rounded overall impression (making the gender of the author harder to guess, or at least less relevant).
More generally, alternating between different viewpoints in your narration (internal, external, through the eyes of different characters, omniscient, etc.) may help divert the reader's attention from you (the male author).
Finally... If your character's personality really is the main issue(?) here, maybe you can incorporate some of that criticism in your writing (have other characters, e.g. the antagonist, comment on her unlady-like behaviour), to show that you are aware it goes against certain societal expectations (you can also turn it on its head and make such "unlady-like behaviour" completely normal and expected in your story's setting, and paint the criticism as hopelessly old-fashioned...)
New contributor
+1 Wish I could upvote it twice!
– Sara Costa
23 hours ago
add a comment |
Slightly different angle from other answers...
"However because the character swears, makes pop culture references and sexually objectifies men, some critics have commented that this makes it seem that it's a female character being written by a man."
There is (to me) some kind of logical disconnect between "the character swears, makes pop culture references and sexually objectifies men" (i.e. the character behaves in a somewhat "unlady-like" fashion) and "it's a female character being written by a man".
As a somewhat "unlady-like" person myself, I don't see anything particularly problematic about the character's behaviour (sounds perfectly believable and relatable).
However, "female character being written by a man" evokes cringe-worthy memories of:
"strong" female characters who for no particular reason opt for absurdly impractical outfits (high heels, maximum skin exposure, etc.), and can't seem to keep their clothes on for more than 5 minutes (or, in a slightly tamer version, have the narrative camera longingly lingers on all their fully-clothed lady-bits at every opportunity)
awkwardly inaccurate depictions of basic female body functions (periods, pregnancy, child birth, etc?), and/or failure to take these into account plot-wise (e.g. unsafe sex has no consequences, not even at a psychological level, e.g. fear of unwanted pregnancy)
Sanity check: are you 100% sure the criticism is really due to the character's laddish behaviour (in which case, whatever...), and not to some of the above narrative mishaps?
I.e. how does your male gaze affect the way you talk about her female body? Does your attraction and/or lack of first-hand experience show somehow? (and if so, how much?). Conversely, maybe, being a true gentleman (and/or out of "paternal" love), your writing cautiously glosses over the fact your "female" character actually comes with a female body?
And if so, in either case... does it matter? (partly depends on the intended audience, I guess?)
Perhaps simply check how often her body is mentionned, and how? (is the reference more sexual, focusing on attractiveness, or practical? E.g. basic issues like pain, hunger, tiredness, physical comfort, etc.)
There's no clear-cut right or wrong, but you need to find a balance somewhere. In my (entirely subjective) opinion, a bit of objectification is not necessarily bad, as long as the overall humaness prevails in the end. You can contrast the two for comedic effect. E.g. sexy outfits are far less glamorous if you mention all the pre-requisite grooming involved, the subsequent blisters, etc. You can also contrast appearances and societal expectations with inner thought process. E.g. she normally prefers practical clothing, but may occasionally opt for a sexy outfit as a tactical decision (worn as "camouflage" to infiltrate a social event). You can alternate between external perspective ("phwoar!") and internal perspective (rational behind the decision, preparation required, etc.) for a well-rounded overall impression (making the gender of the author harder to guess, or at least less relevant).
More generally, alternating between different viewpoints in your narration (internal, external, through the eyes of different characters, omniscient, etc.) may help divert the reader's attention from you (the male author).
Finally... If your character's personality really is the main issue(?) here, maybe you can incorporate some of that criticism in your writing (have other characters, e.g. the antagonist, comment on her unlady-like behaviour), to show that you are aware it goes against certain societal expectations (you can also turn it on its head and make such "unlady-like behaviour" completely normal and expected in your story's setting, and paint the criticism as hopelessly old-fashioned...)
New contributor
+1 Wish I could upvote it twice!
– Sara Costa
23 hours ago
add a comment |
Slightly different angle from other answers...
"However because the character swears, makes pop culture references and sexually objectifies men, some critics have commented that this makes it seem that it's a female character being written by a man."
There is (to me) some kind of logical disconnect between "the character swears, makes pop culture references and sexually objectifies men" (i.e. the character behaves in a somewhat "unlady-like" fashion) and "it's a female character being written by a man".
As a somewhat "unlady-like" person myself, I don't see anything particularly problematic about the character's behaviour (sounds perfectly believable and relatable).
However, "female character being written by a man" evokes cringe-worthy memories of:
"strong" female characters who for no particular reason opt for absurdly impractical outfits (high heels, maximum skin exposure, etc.), and can't seem to keep their clothes on for more than 5 minutes (or, in a slightly tamer version, have the narrative camera longingly lingers on all their fully-clothed lady-bits at every opportunity)
awkwardly inaccurate depictions of basic female body functions (periods, pregnancy, child birth, etc?), and/or failure to take these into account plot-wise (e.g. unsafe sex has no consequences, not even at a psychological level, e.g. fear of unwanted pregnancy)
Sanity check: are you 100% sure the criticism is really due to the character's laddish behaviour (in which case, whatever...), and not to some of the above narrative mishaps?
I.e. how does your male gaze affect the way you talk about her female body? Does your attraction and/or lack of first-hand experience show somehow? (and if so, how much?). Conversely, maybe, being a true gentleman (and/or out of "paternal" love), your writing cautiously glosses over the fact your "female" character actually comes with a female body?
And if so, in either case... does it matter? (partly depends on the intended audience, I guess?)
Perhaps simply check how often her body is mentionned, and how? (is the reference more sexual, focusing on attractiveness, or practical? E.g. basic issues like pain, hunger, tiredness, physical comfort, etc.)
There's no clear-cut right or wrong, but you need to find a balance somewhere. In my (entirely subjective) opinion, a bit of objectification is not necessarily bad, as long as the overall humaness prevails in the end. You can contrast the two for comedic effect. E.g. sexy outfits are far less glamorous if you mention all the pre-requisite grooming involved, the subsequent blisters, etc. You can also contrast appearances and societal expectations with inner thought process. E.g. she normally prefers practical clothing, but may occasionally opt for a sexy outfit as a tactical decision (worn as "camouflage" to infiltrate a social event). You can alternate between external perspective ("phwoar!") and internal perspective (rational behind the decision, preparation required, etc.) for a well-rounded overall impression (making the gender of the author harder to guess, or at least less relevant).
More generally, alternating between different viewpoints in your narration (internal, external, through the eyes of different characters, omniscient, etc.) may help divert the reader's attention from you (the male author).
Finally... If your character's personality really is the main issue(?) here, maybe you can incorporate some of that criticism in your writing (have other characters, e.g. the antagonist, comment on her unlady-like behaviour), to show that you are aware it goes against certain societal expectations (you can also turn it on its head and make such "unlady-like behaviour" completely normal and expected in your story's setting, and paint the criticism as hopelessly old-fashioned...)
New contributor
Slightly different angle from other answers...
"However because the character swears, makes pop culture references and sexually objectifies men, some critics have commented that this makes it seem that it's a female character being written by a man."
There is (to me) some kind of logical disconnect between "the character swears, makes pop culture references and sexually objectifies men" (i.e. the character behaves in a somewhat "unlady-like" fashion) and "it's a female character being written by a man".
As a somewhat "unlady-like" person myself, I don't see anything particularly problematic about the character's behaviour (sounds perfectly believable and relatable).
However, "female character being written by a man" evokes cringe-worthy memories of:
"strong" female characters who for no particular reason opt for absurdly impractical outfits (high heels, maximum skin exposure, etc.), and can't seem to keep their clothes on for more than 5 minutes (or, in a slightly tamer version, have the narrative camera longingly lingers on all their fully-clothed lady-bits at every opportunity)
awkwardly inaccurate depictions of basic female body functions (periods, pregnancy, child birth, etc?), and/or failure to take these into account plot-wise (e.g. unsafe sex has no consequences, not even at a psychological level, e.g. fear of unwanted pregnancy)
Sanity check: are you 100% sure the criticism is really due to the character's laddish behaviour (in which case, whatever...), and not to some of the above narrative mishaps?
I.e. how does your male gaze affect the way you talk about her female body? Does your attraction and/or lack of first-hand experience show somehow? (and if so, how much?). Conversely, maybe, being a true gentleman (and/or out of "paternal" love), your writing cautiously glosses over the fact your "female" character actually comes with a female body?
And if so, in either case... does it matter? (partly depends on the intended audience, I guess?)
Perhaps simply check how often her body is mentionned, and how? (is the reference more sexual, focusing on attractiveness, or practical? E.g. basic issues like pain, hunger, tiredness, physical comfort, etc.)
There's no clear-cut right or wrong, but you need to find a balance somewhere. In my (entirely subjective) opinion, a bit of objectification is not necessarily bad, as long as the overall humaness prevails in the end. You can contrast the two for comedic effect. E.g. sexy outfits are far less glamorous if you mention all the pre-requisite grooming involved, the subsequent blisters, etc. You can also contrast appearances and societal expectations with inner thought process. E.g. she normally prefers practical clothing, but may occasionally opt for a sexy outfit as a tactical decision (worn as "camouflage" to infiltrate a social event). You can alternate between external perspective ("phwoar!") and internal perspective (rational behind the decision, preparation required, etc.) for a well-rounded overall impression (making the gender of the author harder to guess, or at least less relevant).
More generally, alternating between different viewpoints in your narration (internal, external, through the eyes of different characters, omniscient, etc.) may help divert the reader's attention from you (the male author).
Finally... If your character's personality really is the main issue(?) here, maybe you can incorporate some of that criticism in your writing (have other characters, e.g. the antagonist, comment on her unlady-like behaviour), to show that you are aware it goes against certain societal expectations (you can also turn it on its head and make such "unlady-like behaviour" completely normal and expected in your story's setting, and paint the criticism as hopelessly old-fashioned...)
New contributor
New contributor
answered yesterday
Mia
511
511
New contributor
New contributor
+1 Wish I could upvote it twice!
– Sara Costa
23 hours ago
add a comment |
+1 Wish I could upvote it twice!
– Sara Costa
23 hours ago
+1 Wish I could upvote it twice!
– Sara Costa
23 hours ago
+1 Wish I could upvote it twice!
– Sara Costa
23 hours ago
add a comment |
Get some trusted female beta readers and listen to their advice. As a male reader of fiction, I've read books by otherwise good female writers where the male characters didn't come across as authentically male, and it definitely lessened my enjoyment of those books.
I'm sure the problem is many times worse from the other side, since women are encouraged to see things from a male point of view more often than the reverse.
While your female character may not fall prey to stereotypes, she still might be mostly your fantasy of a strong woman.
add a comment |
Get some trusted female beta readers and listen to their advice. As a male reader of fiction, I've read books by otherwise good female writers where the male characters didn't come across as authentically male, and it definitely lessened my enjoyment of those books.
I'm sure the problem is many times worse from the other side, since women are encouraged to see things from a male point of view more often than the reverse.
While your female character may not fall prey to stereotypes, she still might be mostly your fantasy of a strong woman.
add a comment |
Get some trusted female beta readers and listen to their advice. As a male reader of fiction, I've read books by otherwise good female writers where the male characters didn't come across as authentically male, and it definitely lessened my enjoyment of those books.
I'm sure the problem is many times worse from the other side, since women are encouraged to see things from a male point of view more often than the reverse.
While your female character may not fall prey to stereotypes, she still might be mostly your fantasy of a strong woman.
Get some trusted female beta readers and listen to their advice. As a male reader of fiction, I've read books by otherwise good female writers where the male characters didn't come across as authentically male, and it definitely lessened my enjoyment of those books.
I'm sure the problem is many times worse from the other side, since women are encouraged to see things from a male point of view more often than the reverse.
While your female character may not fall prey to stereotypes, she still might be mostly your fantasy of a strong woman.
edited yesterday
answered yesterday
Chris Sunami
27.4k331103
27.4k331103
add a comment |
add a comment |
A useful example to consider is the case of James Tiptree, Jr, the pen name of Alice Sheldon. She wrote her stories (especially the earlier ones) from a male viewpoint, and the impersonation was so successful that Robert Silverberg referred to the theory that Tiptree was a woman as "absurd", and no less an author than Ursula LeGuin refused a contribution to an anthology on the basis that contribution was restricted to women (this was in the relatively early days of feminism).
Judgement of authorial gender is (or can be) an exceedingly tricky business. In large part, it requires playing to the preconceptions of the audience. Sometimes you can get away with putting your character into situations where "acting like a man" is the only way to survive. Soldiering/combat is probably the best example of this. The required characteristics - aggression, unflinching toughness and apparent disconnection from emotions are all survival traits under this sort of stress, so it's easier to accept this sort of behavior.
Outside of these situations, you're in muddy waters. The best advice I can give is to read widely, observe people in everyday interactions (so far as they relate to your proposed story), and think very hard about what you've seen. In general (at least in our culture) women tend to be more passive, less overtly agressive, more socially active/involved, and more concerned with emotion/feelings than men. To do otherwise is to be accused of "acting like a man". And actually acting like a man will, in many circles, get a woman labelled a bitch.
Of course, delineating these differences can be tricky, too. There is an underlying behavioral/emotional/sociological thread which, if violated, will make your writing ring false. Worse, this thread is not constant among all readers. Compare the behavior of most women nowadays with that recommended in the book "The Rules", which was very popular 20 years ago.
Good luck.
New contributor
It's funny, because I read the book in which Silverberg says being a woman is ridiculous (because of the military knowledge the author displays) and every story screamed to me that it was written by a woman. The way relationships, dialogue, and inner thoughts ran, the attitudes to sex, all of it. As soon as I finished the book I headed to Wikipedia and was not surprised at all to discover I was right and Silverberg was wrong.
– Kate Gregory
yesterday
@KateGregory - You are dealing with an issue while ignoring 50 years of extraordinary cultural change. If you're interested, you should read "Her Smoke Rose Up Forever", a biography of Alice Sheldon/James Tiptree Jr. At the time, her acceptance of the strength of the male sex drive and its connection to aggression were unique and overwhelming. It grieves me to say it, but you should take a Women's Studies history course. Such a course has its own (severe ideological) distortions, but nowadays its about the only place you'll find a frank discussion of the cultural differences of the time.
– WhatRoughBeast
yesterday
I am well aware of all that. That was in fact my point. That at the time everyone could be so sure the author had to be a man, and now it's so obvious that the author was a woman. So much changed in between.
– Kate Gregory
yesterday
add a comment |
A useful example to consider is the case of James Tiptree, Jr, the pen name of Alice Sheldon. She wrote her stories (especially the earlier ones) from a male viewpoint, and the impersonation was so successful that Robert Silverberg referred to the theory that Tiptree was a woman as "absurd", and no less an author than Ursula LeGuin refused a contribution to an anthology on the basis that contribution was restricted to women (this was in the relatively early days of feminism).
Judgement of authorial gender is (or can be) an exceedingly tricky business. In large part, it requires playing to the preconceptions of the audience. Sometimes you can get away with putting your character into situations where "acting like a man" is the only way to survive. Soldiering/combat is probably the best example of this. The required characteristics - aggression, unflinching toughness and apparent disconnection from emotions are all survival traits under this sort of stress, so it's easier to accept this sort of behavior.
Outside of these situations, you're in muddy waters. The best advice I can give is to read widely, observe people in everyday interactions (so far as they relate to your proposed story), and think very hard about what you've seen. In general (at least in our culture) women tend to be more passive, less overtly agressive, more socially active/involved, and more concerned with emotion/feelings than men. To do otherwise is to be accused of "acting like a man". And actually acting like a man will, in many circles, get a woman labelled a bitch.
Of course, delineating these differences can be tricky, too. There is an underlying behavioral/emotional/sociological thread which, if violated, will make your writing ring false. Worse, this thread is not constant among all readers. Compare the behavior of most women nowadays with that recommended in the book "The Rules", which was very popular 20 years ago.
Good luck.
New contributor
It's funny, because I read the book in which Silverberg says being a woman is ridiculous (because of the military knowledge the author displays) and every story screamed to me that it was written by a woman. The way relationships, dialogue, and inner thoughts ran, the attitudes to sex, all of it. As soon as I finished the book I headed to Wikipedia and was not surprised at all to discover I was right and Silverberg was wrong.
– Kate Gregory
yesterday
@KateGregory - You are dealing with an issue while ignoring 50 years of extraordinary cultural change. If you're interested, you should read "Her Smoke Rose Up Forever", a biography of Alice Sheldon/James Tiptree Jr. At the time, her acceptance of the strength of the male sex drive and its connection to aggression were unique and overwhelming. It grieves me to say it, but you should take a Women's Studies history course. Such a course has its own (severe ideological) distortions, but nowadays its about the only place you'll find a frank discussion of the cultural differences of the time.
– WhatRoughBeast
yesterday
I am well aware of all that. That was in fact my point. That at the time everyone could be so sure the author had to be a man, and now it's so obvious that the author was a woman. So much changed in between.
– Kate Gregory
yesterday
add a comment |
A useful example to consider is the case of James Tiptree, Jr, the pen name of Alice Sheldon. She wrote her stories (especially the earlier ones) from a male viewpoint, and the impersonation was so successful that Robert Silverberg referred to the theory that Tiptree was a woman as "absurd", and no less an author than Ursula LeGuin refused a contribution to an anthology on the basis that contribution was restricted to women (this was in the relatively early days of feminism).
Judgement of authorial gender is (or can be) an exceedingly tricky business. In large part, it requires playing to the preconceptions of the audience. Sometimes you can get away with putting your character into situations where "acting like a man" is the only way to survive. Soldiering/combat is probably the best example of this. The required characteristics - aggression, unflinching toughness and apparent disconnection from emotions are all survival traits under this sort of stress, so it's easier to accept this sort of behavior.
Outside of these situations, you're in muddy waters. The best advice I can give is to read widely, observe people in everyday interactions (so far as they relate to your proposed story), and think very hard about what you've seen. In general (at least in our culture) women tend to be more passive, less overtly agressive, more socially active/involved, and more concerned with emotion/feelings than men. To do otherwise is to be accused of "acting like a man". And actually acting like a man will, in many circles, get a woman labelled a bitch.
Of course, delineating these differences can be tricky, too. There is an underlying behavioral/emotional/sociological thread which, if violated, will make your writing ring false. Worse, this thread is not constant among all readers. Compare the behavior of most women nowadays with that recommended in the book "The Rules", which was very popular 20 years ago.
Good luck.
New contributor
A useful example to consider is the case of James Tiptree, Jr, the pen name of Alice Sheldon. She wrote her stories (especially the earlier ones) from a male viewpoint, and the impersonation was so successful that Robert Silverberg referred to the theory that Tiptree was a woman as "absurd", and no less an author than Ursula LeGuin refused a contribution to an anthology on the basis that contribution was restricted to women (this was in the relatively early days of feminism).
Judgement of authorial gender is (or can be) an exceedingly tricky business. In large part, it requires playing to the preconceptions of the audience. Sometimes you can get away with putting your character into situations where "acting like a man" is the only way to survive. Soldiering/combat is probably the best example of this. The required characteristics - aggression, unflinching toughness and apparent disconnection from emotions are all survival traits under this sort of stress, so it's easier to accept this sort of behavior.
Outside of these situations, you're in muddy waters. The best advice I can give is to read widely, observe people in everyday interactions (so far as they relate to your proposed story), and think very hard about what you've seen. In general (at least in our culture) women tend to be more passive, less overtly agressive, more socially active/involved, and more concerned with emotion/feelings than men. To do otherwise is to be accused of "acting like a man". And actually acting like a man will, in many circles, get a woman labelled a bitch.
Of course, delineating these differences can be tricky, too. There is an underlying behavioral/emotional/sociological thread which, if violated, will make your writing ring false. Worse, this thread is not constant among all readers. Compare the behavior of most women nowadays with that recommended in the book "The Rules", which was very popular 20 years ago.
Good luck.
New contributor
New contributor
answered 2 days ago
WhatRoughBeast
1412
1412
New contributor
New contributor
It's funny, because I read the book in which Silverberg says being a woman is ridiculous (because of the military knowledge the author displays) and every story screamed to me that it was written by a woman. The way relationships, dialogue, and inner thoughts ran, the attitudes to sex, all of it. As soon as I finished the book I headed to Wikipedia and was not surprised at all to discover I was right and Silverberg was wrong.
– Kate Gregory
yesterday
@KateGregory - You are dealing with an issue while ignoring 50 years of extraordinary cultural change. If you're interested, you should read "Her Smoke Rose Up Forever", a biography of Alice Sheldon/James Tiptree Jr. At the time, her acceptance of the strength of the male sex drive and its connection to aggression were unique and overwhelming. It grieves me to say it, but you should take a Women's Studies history course. Such a course has its own (severe ideological) distortions, but nowadays its about the only place you'll find a frank discussion of the cultural differences of the time.
– WhatRoughBeast
yesterday
I am well aware of all that. That was in fact my point. That at the time everyone could be so sure the author had to be a man, and now it's so obvious that the author was a woman. So much changed in between.
– Kate Gregory
yesterday
add a comment |
It's funny, because I read the book in which Silverberg says being a woman is ridiculous (because of the military knowledge the author displays) and every story screamed to me that it was written by a woman. The way relationships, dialogue, and inner thoughts ran, the attitudes to sex, all of it. As soon as I finished the book I headed to Wikipedia and was not surprised at all to discover I was right and Silverberg was wrong.
– Kate Gregory
yesterday
@KateGregory - You are dealing with an issue while ignoring 50 years of extraordinary cultural change. If you're interested, you should read "Her Smoke Rose Up Forever", a biography of Alice Sheldon/James Tiptree Jr. At the time, her acceptance of the strength of the male sex drive and its connection to aggression were unique and overwhelming. It grieves me to say it, but you should take a Women's Studies history course. Such a course has its own (severe ideological) distortions, but nowadays its about the only place you'll find a frank discussion of the cultural differences of the time.
– WhatRoughBeast
yesterday
I am well aware of all that. That was in fact my point. That at the time everyone could be so sure the author had to be a man, and now it's so obvious that the author was a woman. So much changed in between.
– Kate Gregory
yesterday
It's funny, because I read the book in which Silverberg says being a woman is ridiculous (because of the military knowledge the author displays) and every story screamed to me that it was written by a woman. The way relationships, dialogue, and inner thoughts ran, the attitudes to sex, all of it. As soon as I finished the book I headed to Wikipedia and was not surprised at all to discover I was right and Silverberg was wrong.
– Kate Gregory
yesterday
It's funny, because I read the book in which Silverberg says being a woman is ridiculous (because of the military knowledge the author displays) and every story screamed to me that it was written by a woman. The way relationships, dialogue, and inner thoughts ran, the attitudes to sex, all of it. As soon as I finished the book I headed to Wikipedia and was not surprised at all to discover I was right and Silverberg was wrong.
– Kate Gregory
yesterday
@KateGregory - You are dealing with an issue while ignoring 50 years of extraordinary cultural change. If you're interested, you should read "Her Smoke Rose Up Forever", a biography of Alice Sheldon/James Tiptree Jr. At the time, her acceptance of the strength of the male sex drive and its connection to aggression were unique and overwhelming. It grieves me to say it, but you should take a Women's Studies history course. Such a course has its own (severe ideological) distortions, but nowadays its about the only place you'll find a frank discussion of the cultural differences of the time.
– WhatRoughBeast
yesterday
@KateGregory - You are dealing with an issue while ignoring 50 years of extraordinary cultural change. If you're interested, you should read "Her Smoke Rose Up Forever", a biography of Alice Sheldon/James Tiptree Jr. At the time, her acceptance of the strength of the male sex drive and its connection to aggression were unique and overwhelming. It grieves me to say it, but you should take a Women's Studies history course. Such a course has its own (severe ideological) distortions, but nowadays its about the only place you'll find a frank discussion of the cultural differences of the time.
– WhatRoughBeast
yesterday
I am well aware of all that. That was in fact my point. That at the time everyone could be so sure the author had to be a man, and now it's so obvious that the author was a woman. So much changed in between.
– Kate Gregory
yesterday
I am well aware of all that. That was in fact my point. That at the time everyone could be so sure the author had to be a man, and now it's so obvious that the author was a woman. So much changed in between.
– Kate Gregory
yesterday
add a comment |
It's a real thing, but it may not be 100% language. I know a young woman who writes her men like girls.
General leanings which don't have to be adhered to but you do need to understand them:
Women tend to be more empathetical and less up-front aggressive.
Their antagonism is often plotted and discussed rather than flare-up "OY! You Slag!" sort of thing.
They will defend home base much more strongly than men who tend to go on expeditions and attack.
Women are typically more cautious as everyday life experience as 'underdogs' means 'a woman who stands her ground' is developed by others as 'stroppy bitch' and isn't productive.
The immediate answer to your question is to ask your readers for why they think she is male.
New contributor
"...why they think she is male." They think she is a female written by a male. Not sure if this is the same thing like thinking she is male (oxymoron?).
– Trilarion
2 days ago
add a comment |
It's a real thing, but it may not be 100% language. I know a young woman who writes her men like girls.
General leanings which don't have to be adhered to but you do need to understand them:
Women tend to be more empathetical and less up-front aggressive.
Their antagonism is often plotted and discussed rather than flare-up "OY! You Slag!" sort of thing.
They will defend home base much more strongly than men who tend to go on expeditions and attack.
Women are typically more cautious as everyday life experience as 'underdogs' means 'a woman who stands her ground' is developed by others as 'stroppy bitch' and isn't productive.
The immediate answer to your question is to ask your readers for why they think she is male.
New contributor
"...why they think she is male." They think she is a female written by a male. Not sure if this is the same thing like thinking she is male (oxymoron?).
– Trilarion
2 days ago
add a comment |
It's a real thing, but it may not be 100% language. I know a young woman who writes her men like girls.
General leanings which don't have to be adhered to but you do need to understand them:
Women tend to be more empathetical and less up-front aggressive.
Their antagonism is often plotted and discussed rather than flare-up "OY! You Slag!" sort of thing.
They will defend home base much more strongly than men who tend to go on expeditions and attack.
Women are typically more cautious as everyday life experience as 'underdogs' means 'a woman who stands her ground' is developed by others as 'stroppy bitch' and isn't productive.
The immediate answer to your question is to ask your readers for why they think she is male.
New contributor
It's a real thing, but it may not be 100% language. I know a young woman who writes her men like girls.
General leanings which don't have to be adhered to but you do need to understand them:
Women tend to be more empathetical and less up-front aggressive.
Their antagonism is often plotted and discussed rather than flare-up "OY! You Slag!" sort of thing.
They will defend home base much more strongly than men who tend to go on expeditions and attack.
Women are typically more cautious as everyday life experience as 'underdogs' means 'a woman who stands her ground' is developed by others as 'stroppy bitch' and isn't productive.
The immediate answer to your question is to ask your readers for why they think she is male.
New contributor
New contributor
answered Jan 1 at 15:45
Peter Fox
191
191
New contributor
New contributor
"...why they think she is male." They think she is a female written by a male. Not sure if this is the same thing like thinking she is male (oxymoron?).
– Trilarion
2 days ago
add a comment |
"...why they think she is male." They think she is a female written by a male. Not sure if this is the same thing like thinking she is male (oxymoron?).
– Trilarion
2 days ago
"...why they think she is male." They think she is a female written by a male. Not sure if this is the same thing like thinking she is male (oxymoron?).
– Trilarion
2 days ago
"...why they think she is male." They think she is a female written by a male. Not sure if this is the same thing like thinking she is male (oxymoron?).
– Trilarion
2 days ago
add a comment |
Why would you want to "fix it"? The critique is absurd. If the only way to write literature would be to create female characters that MUST sound like if they were written by a woman, or male characters that MUST sound like if they were written by a man, it would be a damn shame for literature itself, since so many nuanced characters would be lost by the constant policing on how a male and female should sound in the text.
Is also a non-sensical critique, because it comes from the notion that there are only certain ways a person of a given gender can be... why on earth would we only want to read what is considered to be by certain critics a "truly whatever-gender-form" character?
All you need to worry about is if the character has true depth, if the storyline is well developed and if your story overall has a better than average artistic quality.
New contributor
2
While I like the general idea of this answer, I think that it overshoots a bit, especially when telling the asker what to worry about. He may just be worried about the potential impact of this work.
– Trilarion
2 days ago
add a comment |
Why would you want to "fix it"? The critique is absurd. If the only way to write literature would be to create female characters that MUST sound like if they were written by a woman, or male characters that MUST sound like if they were written by a man, it would be a damn shame for literature itself, since so many nuanced characters would be lost by the constant policing on how a male and female should sound in the text.
Is also a non-sensical critique, because it comes from the notion that there are only certain ways a person of a given gender can be... why on earth would we only want to read what is considered to be by certain critics a "truly whatever-gender-form" character?
All you need to worry about is if the character has true depth, if the storyline is well developed and if your story overall has a better than average artistic quality.
New contributor
2
While I like the general idea of this answer, I think that it overshoots a bit, especially when telling the asker what to worry about. He may just be worried about the potential impact of this work.
– Trilarion
2 days ago
add a comment |
Why would you want to "fix it"? The critique is absurd. If the only way to write literature would be to create female characters that MUST sound like if they were written by a woman, or male characters that MUST sound like if they were written by a man, it would be a damn shame for literature itself, since so many nuanced characters would be lost by the constant policing on how a male and female should sound in the text.
Is also a non-sensical critique, because it comes from the notion that there are only certain ways a person of a given gender can be... why on earth would we only want to read what is considered to be by certain critics a "truly whatever-gender-form" character?
All you need to worry about is if the character has true depth, if the storyline is well developed and if your story overall has a better than average artistic quality.
New contributor
Why would you want to "fix it"? The critique is absurd. If the only way to write literature would be to create female characters that MUST sound like if they were written by a woman, or male characters that MUST sound like if they were written by a man, it would be a damn shame for literature itself, since so many nuanced characters would be lost by the constant policing on how a male and female should sound in the text.
Is also a non-sensical critique, because it comes from the notion that there are only certain ways a person of a given gender can be... why on earth would we only want to read what is considered to be by certain critics a "truly whatever-gender-form" character?
All you need to worry about is if the character has true depth, if the storyline is well developed and if your story overall has a better than average artistic quality.
New contributor
New contributor
answered 2 days ago
Darien
171
171
New contributor
New contributor
2
While I like the general idea of this answer, I think that it overshoots a bit, especially when telling the asker what to worry about. He may just be worried about the potential impact of this work.
– Trilarion
2 days ago
add a comment |
2
While I like the general idea of this answer, I think that it overshoots a bit, especially when telling the asker what to worry about. He may just be worried about the potential impact of this work.
– Trilarion
2 days ago
2
2
While I like the general idea of this answer, I think that it overshoots a bit, especially when telling the asker what to worry about. He may just be worried about the potential impact of this work.
– Trilarion
2 days ago
While I like the general idea of this answer, I think that it overshoots a bit, especially when telling the asker what to worry about. He may just be worried about the potential impact of this work.
– Trilarion
2 days ago
add a comment |
Why are you considering letting others’ opinions dictate or influence YOUR story in the first place? Write whatever you want otherwise you will come across as pandering and complacent.
New contributor
7
My observation is that many authors care about the opinion of their readers. This answer is a bit skinny and may better be a comment.
– Trilarion
2 days ago
There are plenty of existing answers to the effect of "you don't need to fix it", and this doesn't add anything to them.
– F1Krazy
2 days ago
1
This does not provide an answer to the question. Once you have sufficient reputation you will be able to comment on any post; instead, provide answers that don't require clarification from the asker. - From Review
– Cyn
2 days ago
add a comment |
Why are you considering letting others’ opinions dictate or influence YOUR story in the first place? Write whatever you want otherwise you will come across as pandering and complacent.
New contributor
7
My observation is that many authors care about the opinion of their readers. This answer is a bit skinny and may better be a comment.
– Trilarion
2 days ago
There are plenty of existing answers to the effect of "you don't need to fix it", and this doesn't add anything to them.
– F1Krazy
2 days ago
1
This does not provide an answer to the question. Once you have sufficient reputation you will be able to comment on any post; instead, provide answers that don't require clarification from the asker. - From Review
– Cyn
2 days ago
add a comment |
Why are you considering letting others’ opinions dictate or influence YOUR story in the first place? Write whatever you want otherwise you will come across as pandering and complacent.
New contributor
Why are you considering letting others’ opinions dictate or influence YOUR story in the first place? Write whatever you want otherwise you will come across as pandering and complacent.
New contributor
New contributor
answered 2 days ago
netfliks
9
9
New contributor
New contributor
7
My observation is that many authors care about the opinion of their readers. This answer is a bit skinny and may better be a comment.
– Trilarion
2 days ago
There are plenty of existing answers to the effect of "you don't need to fix it", and this doesn't add anything to them.
– F1Krazy
2 days ago
1
This does not provide an answer to the question. Once you have sufficient reputation you will be able to comment on any post; instead, provide answers that don't require clarification from the asker. - From Review
– Cyn
2 days ago
add a comment |
7
My observation is that many authors care about the opinion of their readers. This answer is a bit skinny and may better be a comment.
– Trilarion
2 days ago
There are plenty of existing answers to the effect of "you don't need to fix it", and this doesn't add anything to them.
– F1Krazy
2 days ago
1
This does not provide an answer to the question. Once you have sufficient reputation you will be able to comment on any post; instead, provide answers that don't require clarification from the asker. - From Review
– Cyn
2 days ago
7
7
My observation is that many authors care about the opinion of their readers. This answer is a bit skinny and may better be a comment.
– Trilarion
2 days ago
My observation is that many authors care about the opinion of their readers. This answer is a bit skinny and may better be a comment.
– Trilarion
2 days ago
There are plenty of existing answers to the effect of "you don't need to fix it", and this doesn't add anything to them.
– F1Krazy
2 days ago
There are plenty of existing answers to the effect of "you don't need to fix it", and this doesn't add anything to them.
– F1Krazy
2 days ago
1
1
This does not provide an answer to the question. Once you have sufficient reputation you will be able to comment on any post; instead, provide answers that don't require clarification from the asker. - From Review
– Cyn
2 days ago
This does not provide an answer to the question. Once you have sufficient reputation you will be able to comment on any post; instead, provide answers that don't require clarification from the asker. - From Review
– Cyn
2 days ago
add a comment |
Ty_xy is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
Ty_xy is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
Ty_xy is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
Ty_xy is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
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24
"Any ideas how to fix this?" Yes. I suggest writing a new passage involving a new character who is genderless. Write out a day in the life of this person. Any time this character says or does a thing that feels gendered to you, make a note of how it feels (which gender) and remind yourself that the character has no gender. We have instincts for male/female--you have this instinct--find it and use it. Apply what you learn to your work. Secondly: Read comments on the internet from anonymous users. Do they sound male or female? Why? Figure it out. Find the cues.
– DPT
Jan 1 at 16:42
5
The character may be based on women you know, but the reader doesn't know that and assesses the character based on themselves and the women that THEY know. Your question require quite a bit of context to answer, like actually reading the piece, but off the cuff I'd say lighten up on or eliminate the sexual objectification of men. If there's no specific personality dynamic that is relevant to the character's arc that makes her want to talk or act like that, consider eliminating it.
– TheLeopard
2 days ago
8
It sounds like you might have written a female character with stereotypical male attributes, who behaves like a young man, but in a woman's body. It seems that it's a female character being written by a man, because it is. You don't have a woman's life experience. It's not possible for you to write like a woman does, and nor should you. A perceptive reader will be able to tell that you are male no matter what you do, and that is okay. I suggest to accept your character as it is, and try to write a richer or more authentic woman character next time. Maybe read more books written by women.
– Sam Watkins
2 days ago
24
Guess how many real women get "you're not feminine enough" in real life. It tells more about the critic than about you.
– Agent_L
2 days ago
3
@DPT Your comment sounds like an answer and I see absolutely nothing in the comment that is aimed at improving the question. I know I'm relatively new here but I have been corrected (and even have seen my comments deleted) for doing this. Is it different for those with high reputation? Just need a clarification here.
– Keeta
23 hours ago